Another fine (DHE) mess........

[Talking Radalt]

I recently caught wind of a chat in the crew room regarding some quarters near "here" occupied by some of our blokes and of which some are due to be flogged off.
Seeing as I was over that way visiting friends tonight I thought I'd take a look and see what's on offer.
Quite frankly I am near-speechless with disgust at what I discovered.
Those houses outlined for sale have clearly undergone very obvious and signficant renovation, which appears to have involved a total re-paint of all rendered brickwork, ironmongery, fences and railings; cleansing of all plastic fittings (window frames and gutters); power-washing of all bare brickwork, paths and exterior hard standings; and, get this, the planting of..........a shrubbery (Neee!) in the front gardens. All this just to make them saleable.
One hundred yards away are identical houses occupied by serving soldiers and airmen (and their families). Being so adjacent to the vacant quarters a direct comparison is easy and sadly depressing. Mouldy, yellowing window frames, moss and other greenery on the walls, lose brickwork, rusty guttering, domestic rubbish piling up in stair wells...I could go on.
So...assuming a hard copy of PpRuNe is, as per the rumours, still de-briefed every Monday at MOD Main Building, a few questions...
If quarters require significant work to be sold off, what does that say about the conditions we are forcing our service families to live in and the associated quality of life they have?
(I say "forcing" because to really rub salt in the wound I've just checked the website of the estate agent who is selling said houses and they are priced barely within financial reach of most first-time-buying servicemen based anywhere in the SE.)
Why is the cash to overhaul quarters only made available in order to make them presentable for sale?
Why are Annington Homes or whoever actually owns the hardware these days, allowed to get away with renting total $hitholes to DHE who in turn are allowed to get away with agreeing to rent total $hitholes from whoever? Finally why does the MOD not turn round and boot DHE up the ar$e or better still, completely in to touch?

In closing Tony, I hope you and your bloody family have a bloody nice time in your bloody nice chateau in the south of bloody France.

:mad:

[rivetjoint]

I really do feel sorry for these guys. Visited a friend the other day who's a junior NCO, joined up with the promise of all his welfare looked after, no need to worry about civvy street housing/benefit problems etc. How much further from the truth could he be. These people are expected to fight, go into battle, yet we give them these "houses" to live in?! Rant over.

[canberra]

i wonder for how much longer mq's will exist,the french dont have them should we? my mum was born at bovington in 1925, where she was born is now the tank museum. she remembers the quarter her dad had at lulworth, unlike the locals they had electric light! but they also had a range to cook on and because her dad was only a private the only carpet was a rug in the front room.

[Talking Radalt]

Do the French also have sky-high property prices beyond the means of it's Services? :mad:

[JimNich]

...and if you were a civvy of course you would have the "right to buy" at a price commensurate with the rent you were paying.

A lot of people have been made very rich by the selling off of these quarters and as usual its the service families who are shunted around in order that the lining of fat cat pockets continues unnabated.

[TqNrT4NgGreenlightCWP]

Why are we even surprised?

It is almost as obscene as the great con-trick when the last administration sold off all the previously nationalised industries. Owned by UK plc - ie all of us - we were supposed to be gleeful at the prospect of being allowed to buy a piece of them for ourselves! If I tried to sell something to you which you already owned, I would expect to be in the seriously brown and runny for it - unless in the name of government.

Ah well - plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose!

[Scud-U-Like]

I think 'canberra' has a point. SFQs really are an old-fashioned concept. They tend to ghettoize service personnel and their families, normally in clusters of sub-standard, depressing housing. I spend most of my working day and detachments surrounded by service personnel. Without wishing to sound anti-social, I don't really want to spend all my down-time surrounded by them as well.

The government ought to sell off all SFQs (oops, they already have) and introduce a realistically funded assisted house-purchase scheme for all service personnel.

[Gen. Bombdabastards]

I am shortly due to leave my FQ after leaving the service. My carpets are 14 years old downstairs and 16 years old upstairs and niether in very good condition. I was told by DHE that there is a moritorium on carpets and that I would have to pay to have them cleaned on march out. They gort told in no uncertain terms that if they wanted to prolong the life of said carpets then they would have to pay for them to be cleaned. Eventually they agreed with my side of the arguement, especially after I took a photo of the O's FQ next to mine having new carpets fitted.

At least thyis will be my last dealings with DHE.

[Tiger_mate]

Assisted house purchase in lieu of an FMQ is all very well until the time of posting. At that stage your family live in Newquay and you are posted to Kinloss. One wonders if the French are all local service??

There are several house sell / buy schemes already available, but with major discrepencies between the services. A Navy chap has to be age 21 and an RAF chap 35 to qualify for example. LSAP I think it is called, though I dont know what that actually stands for.

There are of course some outstanding MQ estates, a shame a common (high) standard is decades away. If all homeowners moved back in tomorrow, there is no way the service could cope, yet there is little support from Binsworth regarding tour length once you have bought your own place.

T_M

[Megaton]

Ministry of Defence Community Support

Allowances - Accommodation & Housing

Long Service Advance of Pay (LSAP) For Assisted House Purchase

Purpose of Allowance: An advance of pay intended to assist personnel to enter the housing market.NB Difference in age limits reflects different single service housing policies.

Basic Eligibility: Available to all regular personnel aged 35 or over in the Army and RAF, and aged 23 or over in the Naval Service, who are serving on pensionable engagements or commissions. The advance can be up to a maximum of £8,500 repayable over 10 years, the commencement of which can be deferred by 2 years if the individual has sufficient service remaining. Currently under review.

Up to £8,500

Loans over £5,000 taxable

Further Reading: Please contact your Unit General Office for further details.

References:
Air Publication 3392 Volume 3 Leaflet 126

[Art Field]

Great, lead me to a house for £8,500, what a deal. Maybe thats only 90% and I have to find the other £900.

[StopStart]

"Personnel entering the housing market". At 35? Marvellous :rolleyes:

Obviously I didn't qualify for this being far too young. Ish.

Interesting to note that the NHS pay their staffs all sorts of cash if they have to move house/relocate.

[solotk]

Nice to see this thread appear.

If anyone in the Big House, is still wondering why you can't recruit/retain......

Make your employeee happy, or more importantly, the other half, and it will improve his productivity.

And when he/she comes to move house, make sure you don't treat them like children. We know what state we took it over in thanks .

Still, fat lot Thatcher cared when she hoiked the lot to Nomura.

"Oh my wonderful brave servicemen and women, thank you so much for delivering us from Argentine/Iraqi evil etc etc. Now to show my appreciation, I'm going to sell all the best property at a knockdown rate to my mates , the nice people who helped me get in in the first place. As I won't need you again during my tenure, tough t1ts"

Strange, has an oddly familiar ring to it :mad: :mad:

[Talking Radalt]

"NB Difference in age limits reflects different single service housing policies."

This is cobblers. I looked in to this one and the only reason the RAF limit is 35 is because the pot of money from which payment is made is a RN fund and they calculated if EVERYONE across all three services was given the option at 21 the pot would run dry in seconds, and being RN dosh it's the RN who benefit in the first instance.

And as for benefits for NHS staff, did you know there are NHS personnel now occupying military FMQs in the SE as part of a Govt incentive?:eek:

[Captain Gadget]

Anyone remember the Robson Report? (Ts & Cs report commissioned during a previous recruitment/retention crisis - funny how we re-invent the wheel every few years, innit?).

There was a wonderful one-liner in there that said something along the lines of - in this day and age service families have a right to leave a quarter otherwise than backwards on a sheet of newspaper. It was referring to a suggestion that families should be entitled to have a quarter professionally cleaned to march-out standard rather than doing it - or paying for it - themselves.

Even at around the time that was written (and obviously filed under B1N) I remember a neighbour in quarters being fined £50 for leaving the lawn slightly too long at march-out. The quarter was then left empty for about six months, at the end of which the lawn didn't so much need mowing as harvesting.

Nice to see that, in the 'modern' service, standards are so obviously being upheld.

[Green Bottle 2]

TR,

going back to your original point, I could be wrong but I think this is a case of different budgets. When FQs are released to Annington to sell, Annington does all the work not DHE to make them more attractive to the market. Some houses in Colchester have just been sold off and were done up prior to being sold off.

They were however still a pile of sh*t inside and the take up by service personnel was small to the surprise of the sales staff! A lot of the work is merely cosmetic.

What still amazes me that when you move into your quarter and decorate, you have to paint it back to magnolia when you leave. I have taken over quarter and painted a bathroom from magnolia to blue - the same blue it had been prior to the previous residents leaving and painting it back to magnolia! On average I probably spend £500 per year on improvements to a quarter whilst living in it - many of the improvements I make I have to put reversed when I march out otherwise I get charged for it!

But when all is said and done the rent we pay for quarters is still well below market value in most cases and I would be paying about £600 - £800 per month for an equivalent civvy hiring.

I got on board the Service Home Savings Scheme when it started and used it to buy a house a few years ago. It netted me about £3000 on top of my investment and was a good scheme - except it was linked to MIRAS which was gradually phased out.

About time this modern service found a method of compensating people for years of upheaval by realistically assisting with house purchase, perhaps the LSAP available for all irrespective of age for a start.

GB

[Talking Radalt]

GB2, the different budget thing is the proverbial thrust of my whole argument!
WHY OH WHY are Annington allowed to get away with RIPPING OFF the MOD by renting them tatty properties that are so clearly in need of renovation work?
When will someone get a grip of these morally deficient get-rich-quick merchants, preferably by the neck, and explain that if the quarters they want to sell need a lick of paint, then so do the ones we are living in, possibly in time to make them a home worth returning to from Iraq (for example).

Rant off.

[Green Bottle 2]

TR,

Don't blame Annington - it was the previous governments fault as they negociated the contract. Maintenance of the SFQs are the responsibility of DHE and DHE get a budget from the government to pay for maintenance and improvements. Annington has no responsibility for the maintenance - it is a private company.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend the current situation as I think it sucks, but the blame lies with those who negociated the contract i.e. previous Gov't and those who manage the properties i.e. DHE. If DHE had a bigger budget and managed the whole thing better then we would be in a better way now. I have come across some good DHE staff and some very bad. Often the good staff get demoralised and leave - catch 22.

GB

[Grimweasel]

What really pi**es me off is why the serving members were not given a first refusal of the quaters. It was muted in the early stages that the MoD would sell the houses off cheap if you were allready serving. Then some high ranker said 'sod that' and instead of dealing with say 50000 seperate deals, they sold the lot off to a half Jap firm in a 1'er.
Cheers.. I know for a fact that some of the MQ's in this area were sold off at £12k a house to Annington...who in turn charged £70 when they sold them off after a meagre £2k of renovations on them!
Once again the forces are shafted by the HMG and Annington..
Read the one about the Queue of buyers in Kent? The houses went up some £20k in the 5 weeks that people were waiting for them. Concequently many people who had been queueing for 5 weeks could no longer get a mortgage for the amount Annington were asking for... I just hope that there is a massive price crash and Annington feels the pinch.. Ha,Ha.. sour grapes and all that..
:mad: :mad:

[[email protected]]

I am led to believe that the money for improving the FQs before they are handed over to Annington to sell actually comes from the DHE maintenance budget. This is why you cannot get any work services done on your quarter- they have used all their repair and decoration budget tarting houses up for sale!

[canberra]

thats right its not dhes fault. in my opinion the state of quarters is the fault of station commanders! why do they inspect barrack blocks and not quarters, surely the time has come for raf station commanders to start commanding ? people may think im joking but when does the co ever inspect quarters? the swo told me a couple of years ago that the co has the right as landlord to inspect barrack blocks so why not quarters? so if any raf station commander or come to that army or navy co why dont you start inspecting the married patch?

[FOMere2eternity]

Canberra:

I believe technically the CO does have the right to do so, but you can imagine the wives revolt - they have human rights don't you know... :p

[Talking Radalt]

Listen, my point was simply this:
WHOEVER owns these quarters, by pouring shed loads of cash in to making them fit to sell (including totally re-laid gardens now apparently), they have demonstrated beyond all doubt that the ones our people are expected, nay forced, to live in are crap.

Complete, utter and indesputable crap.:confused:

[Talk Reaction]

Quote Talking Radalt "I say "forcing" because to really rub salt in the wound I've just checked the website of the estate agent who is selling said houses and they are priced barely within financial reach of most first-time-buying servicemen based anywhere in the SE.) "

I believe the average cost of a typical house ACROSS THE UK is now over £110 K so assuming that your first time buying serviceman has £3000 or so for solicitiors etc and a 10% deposit (how many of us have £13 000 tucked away?) he still needs to raise a 100K mortgage which means earning at least 28,500 pa (based on a 3.5 times salary mortgage.)

Suddenly it's not just a problem in the SE and with the continued growth of the housing market, which last time i checked was growing faster than MOD pay rises, it's going to get harder for servicemen to get into the market - and all this assumint they dont have young family to look after for example.....

Maybe it's a retention plan - on the principle that we cant afford to leave the services unless we want to live on the streets....

What a rant - you wouldnt guess I dont want to live in anymore!!
:mad: :mad:

[BEagle]

I think that it's now in excess of £130K........

Wasn't the idea behind MQs that they encourage mobility? So that the reluctance to move between stations was less as a uniform standard of housing would be available wherever?

Some years ago we were asked whether the 'live in for the first 12 months' nonsense was fair. I pointed out that, at that time, it represented something like a £5K fine as it would mean being 12 months behind in the housing market.......so our boss at the time was perfectly happy for people to live out as soon as they asked.

In the 70s (when some Plt Offs were on assistance), a Flt Lt with 3 years in the rank used to get about £6K pa (inc FP) - and a 3 bed semi in RAF Lincolnshire cost around £14K. The price of a 3 bed semi near Brize is now around 10 times that; I'm pretty sure that no 3 year Flt Lt earns £60K..... And as for the youngsters in the Other Ranks who make nothing like half that, what hope will they have of buying a house? It follows that MQs are their only option. Mind you, once upon a time early marriage was discouraged by reduced 'marriage allowance' below the age of 25 - but if you were single you were not permitted to live out!

But how do civilians on pay levels less than those of our ORs cope?

[kippermate]

Annington Homes are selling SFQ near York at the moment. I have been led to believe ( only rumour ) that they were purchased for £8K each, ( England and Wales ) and that DHE have to hand them back to Annington in a suitable state or else pay a £2K fee to Annington. DHE have decided that it is cheaper simply to pay the £2k. Therefore, Annington only pay £6k per property.

In order to purchase an Annington Homes property you are invited to camp out for upto 3 weeks prior to the date that the prices are announced. Only slightly degrading I'd suggest. Whlie not actually encouraging people to camp out, they provide a hospitality house, complete with electricty, tea and coffee, and bathroom facilities.

The starting price for the properties was £ 165K. All but 2 campers left as this was outwith their budget, after having lived in a caravan for 2 weeks, with a warden confirming that a member af their family was at the site constantly ( 1 hr away per 24 hr was allowed).

But I believe that the properties have all sold. Don't think may of them went to servicemen though.

Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with them.

Rant over.

[D-IFF_ident]

I recently moved into a renovated quarter at a secret Oxfordshire airbase. I thought renovating 35 year old prefabs designed to last 10 years novel, but remained open-minded. I have found a few minor problems since march-in though. These include:
Cooker unusable as it blows circuit breaker when switched-on. (Lots of BBQs at my house!)
Water dripping through smoke alarm in upstairs hall. (Smoke alarm removed by call-out electrician - not replaced yet, 2 months later). Water still dripping.
Nice Artex on ceiling, nice new cupboards in kitchen. Unfortunately cupboards currently removing artex due to incorrect hanging.
Nice new carpets, unfortunately being eroded by un-planed doors.
Nice new magnolia paint, unfortunately holes appearing in walls pushed-in by door handles due to lack of doorstops.
External door security locks not aligned and removed in order to close doors.
Tap isolated in downstairs toilet to avoid leak - pipes not secured.

Obviously I've reported these to DHE. They remain on the emergency or urgent list. I've actually had one contractor come around on behalf of DHE. Unfortunately he could do no work as he was paid only to confirm the problem.

I could fix it all myself but I don't think it's legal to 'interfere' with the property?

:rolleyes:

[Oldandbold]

I added this comment to another post, but it is equally valid on this thread. It is not just housing that servicemen/wowman are being shafted with but all pay and conditions.

I was at Cranditz recently and met an Act Plt Off who had graduated from IOT and was awaiting courses etc.

I was appalled to hear that because of the miniscule pay, and the fact that he had a family, he was on benefit. What are the services coming to when a serviceman (of any rank) has to claim benefit (family credit etc) in order to survive? He did not have a degree and was joining a ground branch so no fast-track promotion and flying pay for him and no chance of this individual getting on the housing ladder.

BEagle says that in the 70s some Plt Offs were on assistance, well it is beginning to happen again. History beginning to repeat itself again.

[Talk Reaction]

I'm sure that more than just APOs are on income support or whatever with families. And as an aside to this subject wasn't part of the Bett shambles the renaming of MQs to FQs so that those in a stable long term relationship could occupy them?? Well where I am (singly mind) married couples have to wait for quarters that are far from satisfactory, let alone have spare for "modern families"...

It is ridiculous, we dont pay, house or in anyway look after the people that are expected to spend all the year away from their families anyhow!!!

Retention - I cant see the problem

[6nandneutral]

I thought that the whole idea of selling off a load of quarters as a job lot was to get a large amount of cash quickly to raise sufficient funds to improve the remaining quarters to a high standard. As far as I hear this has not happened, so either someone has got their sums wrong or it raises the question.......where has the cash from the sale gone?:confused:

[Vortex_Generator]

Perhaps those of us who currently live out should all apply for service accommodation at the same time, then sit back and watch the fun!

[Grimweasel]

This whole MQ issue has become a farce! Which Government was responsible for this debacle in the first place?
Its time that we stopped being shafted by the Government and started to get a little recognition for the cr*p we have to put up with. I wish to buy a house as I do not want to buy one when we get snowballed into the Euro. Watch house prices rocket then, mark my words!
Annington should give servicemen the house at a profit of say 10-25% of what they paid for them instead of the 500% and more they are making now.
See the latest scam that we have to endure? Nurses in London moving into Army Barracks due to the rising cost of living in the South. I suppose that I will be getting a posting to whever they go and expected to live out. There will be no MQ (all sold off) and no Single accomadation as its chocker with nurses!!
Its so bloody infuriating....what with the NAAFI robbing you blind down the Falklands to me having to wear trops in the desert because there is no Desert Cam. One wonders if its worth staying in??

[Talking Radalt]

"Many Victorians struggled to understand and explain poverty. Was this because of circumstances beyond the individual's control or the direct result of their indolence? To discourage dependency, workhouse conditions were worse than the lowest standard of the independent labourer." :(

And that was a hundred or so years ago, oh how we've progressed!

The above was found at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/welfare/bsurface_01.shtml

Some "interesting" reading to be found.

PS. It gets even nearer to the mark on page two!
Get this:
"At the beginning of the 19th century poverty was regarded as the natural condition of the labouring poor - those who worked with their hands. The fluctuations of harvests, the disruptions of war and the fine line between subsistence and penury were seen as inevitable and difficult to change.":rolleyes:

[Talking Radalt]

Oh the irony of it all.......
If it wasn't so sad it'd be funny.
Latest rumours around the leafy lanes of Death Banana HQ suggest that out of over 20 houses up for sale Annington sold a staggering............one. Oh how we laughed.:D

But what's this?!!! Fat cat property company buys up entire site and then offers them for a huge monthly rent to hungry mice tenants.

So in summary:

There were a number of quarters occupied by servicemen and women, married and single, who appreciated renting a quarter at what was admittedly a very attractive rate, since the Services simply don't pay them enough to buy a property anywhere south of Carlisle.:)
DHE then evict these people (some are rehoused, some are not) so that Annington can renovate said properties and in doing so demonstrate just how bad they really were (and the remainder still are).:eek:
Annington make a nice wad by then selling them to a private property company who itself then makes a nice wad by offering them for tenancy at a rate over five times higher than that paid by previous Service occupants.:(
So despite claiming to take care of "our" welfare, MOD has allowed DHE and especially Annington (and in this case an estate agent) to target those least in a position to answer back in order to make a nice wad for themselves and to continue making a nice wad for themselves all the time people who CAN afford it are renting these pads, at prices beyond the reach of those previously evicted.:mad:
And before anyone says they were "surplus", I did some digging and there is now a waiting list for quarters at said site.:rolleyes:

(I tried phoning Annington to discuss this but someone called Terry answered the phone and said Arfur wasn't at the lock-up this afternoon but might be found down the Winchester showing Dave the barman his new Jag and discussing his latest "deal" but not to tell 'er indoors ;))

So Tony, how was the bloody chateau in the bloody South of sodding France?:mad:

[kippermate]

My missus works for Airwaves, and has just been told one of the reasons that DHE are in the sh!t financially. Annington Homes, who own the properties, in England and Wales, have recently increased the rent, by 40%! Contractors cost have also increased, by 12%, and to cover these costs DHE have been given a 2% rise from DCDS(Pers). Now whithout knowing all the numbers involved it is difficult to see whether the problem is DHE or DCDS, but it doesn't look right to me!

The result of this is that maintainance, which one would expect of a landlord, is not being done, until the problem is classed as an emergency repair. Recently, up here in Yorkshire, we were being told that having raw sewage backing into your bath was not an emergency as you could always use the other toilet. You don't want to hear the response of Mrs Kippermate!!!

Still, its a laugh, isn't it?...................Isn't it?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[SirToppamHat]

The latest from my helpful admin friend (I am not being sarcastic, he is genuinely helpful) is that Binnsworth's latest cracker is that when moving, you will have to provide receipts for expenditure relating to the purchase of children's uniforms before you can claim the £105 per child of school age that is currently part of the Disturbance Allowance as a whole.

The argument goes that not all schools require uniforms, that some elements are not changed from school to school and that the total expenditure is usually less than the allowance. I believe it is also acceptable to produce a letter from the school stating that a uniform is required, but am not sure what level of information it will need to contain. No doubt some of the schools will charge for such a letter? I wonder why this has not been trumpeted as a step forward? I wonder how anyone hasn't come up with such a fine idea in the past? I wonder how long it will be before some to**er thinks it will be a great idea to apply the same rules to the rest of the DA?

Despite having been qualified in my Branch for more than 10 years (ie I am not in the trg system), I have moved house 5 times in the last 6 years; three of these moves required changes of school, and they all cost a bl**dy sight more than £105 in uniform and other special items each school expected parents to provide. Under current plans, I will be moving a further 3 times in the next 3 yrs. Can anyone beat this? How I look forward to the incompetence of the removals system damaging my furniture and creating more work than it saves!

I accept that there is a requirement to move around from place to place; I have taken up the offer of Boarding School Allowance (will still cost me £1000 per term though). However, I am getting increasingly pi**ed off with the continual tinkering with allowances that pass for improvements whilst they are actually attempts at reducing the amount by which we are compensated.

By the way, anyone any thoughts on the nonsense 1771 mileage rates? Understand some units now require pers to produce petrol receipt to justify this payment!



'Nuff Whinging.

:mad: :mad:

[Scud-U-Like]

Interesting piece in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,781534,00.html

[EESDL]

Due to unsuitability of quarters at new post have recentlt bought a house in the area. 2 kids, 2 dogs only one wife. Inconvenience of move overhauled the 'disturbance' allowance a long time ago.

During one of my visits it was quite obvious that the available quarters were not going to be suitable.....so refused the kind offer. Now if I was to March-in to that property, my expenses would have been covered. As I did not 'march-in' but still had to view the property, I've been told that my expenses should come out of the Dist Allowance!!!

Anyone know how to claim back renting expenses whilst house is being readied for occupation?

Now where's that tin of magnolia.............

If I receive another glossy welfare brochure that purports to indicate that the RAF 'cares'....I will shove it up the nearest OC Accts' ****. Anything outside of the 'norm' then you might aswell not exist. eg, Removal companies that actually do the move when you need it, cost more than the quote for MOD moves,,,same company but out of contract.

Wangers, the lot of them.

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

I have recently moved into a quarter at a well known helicopter base, however, as usual, the state of the property on march in was terrible. The garden had been left untended for over a year and it was slashed immediately prior to occupation during a hot spell. This has meant that the grass is either dead or weeds. I have written (6 Aug) and told DHE that if the garden is not brought upto standard by the end of next week, then I will be employing a gardener to make the garden fit for its intended purpose. I will also be advising them that I will be doing the same for the other internal faults if they are not fixed within the 30 days which are promised.

Wil keep you posted on DHE's response.

HPT

[Talking Radalt]

"I will be employing a gardener to make the garden fit for its intended purpose"

Thing is Tree, you're overlooking the fact that your purpose of a garden and DHE's will differ largely.
To you a garden is an area, usually to the rear of a house, used for recreational gardening activities, exercise, socialising and grazing of pets, thus generally enhancing the character of your, admiteddly rented, property.

To DHE it's the patch of land between one ****hole and the next. :rolleyes:

Would be very interested to see what they say about emplying yourown contractors. Dripping hot tap in bathroom has been "repaired" by locally employed DHE multi-skilled "handyman" a total of four times now.
An actual plumber with even an average degree of competance would nice. :mad:

[In Tor Wot]

Did the 'get it fixed or I will' to my local DHE and they didn't move a jot until I reminded them that as the Landlord they have responsibility for the safety of their tenants and that I will recover the costs of the repair by suing them. Seemed to do the trick - Muppet with hammer turned up the following day to 'fix' the problem (roof leaking onto electrical sockets). Roof did stop leaking for 3 months but started again – same lacklustre response, met by same threat, to be treated to same Muppet with hammer.

Question – Whilst Annington homes are flogging the 3 bedroom terrace houses (no garage, small gardens, opposite busy domestic site) at a non-airbase near High Wycombe for £160K, why is the RAF paying up to £1500 per month (each) for the 100+ personnel on ERA (sorry SSA) because there are no quarters available?

Does seem a little silly (!) that whilst we (the RAF) cough (on average) £1.8m per year on accommodation which, had it not been sold off, should have been available to these families - I hear the phrase Investing in People. I'm glad they're investing in something because it certainly isn't common sense.

I thought Annington were supposed to sell only 'surplus' quarters, not ones which are desperately needed in one of the most expensive areas of the country.

Annington didn't donate to Milbank as well did they?? :confused:

Rant selected to OFF

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Thing is, the actual landlord is the Secretary of State for Defence and not DHE, however, they act as his agents so I guess the final outcome will be the same. I will be pressing the test by getting a plumber in to fix the kitchen taps in about 3 weeks time. I will of course be getting my free interview with a solicitor courtesy of the Citizens' Advice Bureau first, but I think it will be watertight if I afford them a reasonable time to get the things upto standard or advise me when they will be rectified. Then to the County Court I guess!

HPT

[In Tor Wot]

HPT - Give them a defined time period - 14 or 21 days and use the Small Claims Court (it's cheaper).;)

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

My plan exactly - the Small Claims Court is the County Court BTW.

HPT

[Grimweasel]

Some ar@e hole needs to swing for this whole debacle!
Service houses should be sold to service people with high standards of living, not just any old council house dwelling trekko.
The Guardian article was spot on. Why the fu@k should we queue for 3 weeks in a field just to buy a house that we have previously lived in?
Annington Nazi's should hang!

[Talking Radalt]

"Annington Nazi's should hang!"

...and then be allowed to bid for the rope afterwards, only to discover it's priced way out of their reach?:rolleyes:

[EESDL]

Sitting here, looking out over the Dales, everything's fine and dandy. Snag is, now face crazy commute through Yorkshire's finest because DHE will not spend the money to providedecent housing near where I'm posted!

Q. If I can't find someone to do my Proxy M/O, can I tell them to ' @@@ it@?
Available personnel are few and far between at the former secret Wilts airbase and I'll be damned if I'm driving down for this formality.

[Banggearo]

EESDL

When we left said secret airbase I couldn't do the march out, I wasn't going to let Mrs Banggearo deal with DHE and I certainly wasn't travelling back!! DHE didn't seem to have a hard time with this and assuming you paid for a cleaner the only danger is that if they try and charge you for damages etc you can't argue the to$$ at the time.

Hope you're enjoying life up North and the new job

Regards BG

[D-IFF_ident]

Has anyone else received a survey from QinetiQ, on the subject of DHE? I'd like to see the results. Only needed the 'Extremely Disatisfied' column in mine. Advice for Chief Petty Officer Beeching? Don't move out, keep paying rent, see what happens.

[brit bus driver]

Well, was actually starting to look forward to heading back to blighty, but now........Thing is, in the (much smaller), former colonial air force whose company I am presently enjoying, they may not have a lot of modern kit, but they do try to look after their people.

Example: when a chap is posted to a new unit, he is entitled to a "house hunting trip". This, I believe, is usuallly a week, but often up to 2. But not just the chap mind; if he's married, the wife can come too, and if they have kids, why not bring them along to check out the local area. But what to do with the kids whilst out looking for the new house? No problem old chap, hire a childminder, we'll pay. Oh, and you and yours can stay in a hotel (but let's make it reasonably priced) and we'll put you on allowances while you're their, pay your mileage or, due to the large distances involved, fly you there and pay for car hire. When you finally get posted, take a few days in a local hotel, just to get yourself sorted but, if your new house isn't quite ready, no worries. Have up to 3 weeks as a norm, and make a case if you need longer; we'll understand.

I'm coming home from 3 years overseas and have the prospect of moving into a MQ at the nation's premier AT base to a house where I know the carpets need replacing throughout (coz the last tenant told me!). To be fair, DHE at Brize told me too, but they can't have them replaced. Of course, I'll have to take their word for it that everything else is tickety-boo. Guess I'll find out at the March-In, when it's too late. "Erm, this doesn't appear to be quite up to standard - any chance of a few days in a hotel while you get it sorted?" HAH!! Plus, I'll be entitled to the Oxford Tube from LHR to Oxford, and then the local bus to Carterton, via Witney no doubt. Should be fun lugging about 100lbs of baggage around on that journey.

Yoou know what, 18 grand after tax may just not cut it for another 5 years.

[thom]

Hydraulic Palm Tree

Excellent response. Your paying for this 'service' so demand a 'service'. There is one thing I have learned since coming back in to civvie street is that I don't take any **** from anyone I purchase from, or use the services of. God, I have lived in some 'dives', especially in Germany, and to think, I never once complained, in fact I was always 'humble' when asking for something to be fixed or put right, such is the culture of the forces, 'Don't complain, you'll make it worse for yourself'. I can still remember being chastised by some housing person because I dared to complain about the damp in my bathroom. His answer was that I should leave the window open all the time to let the bathroom 'breath'. In the middle of a German winter ??? On leaving the forces, my first rent on a flat was £350 a month. At first I adopted the humble approach to problems with plumbing, the roof and the garden. Then I realised, 'I'M PAYING FOR THIS !'. The landlord was flooded with phones call and letters, requests and threats of non-payment if work was not forthcoming..... and it worked.

Still, it makes me angry to know that some service personnel live in sub-standard accommodation. You can argue the point that if they don't like it they could always go private or whatever, but a service is provided in the renting of MQ's, so (and even though it is considerable cheaper then civvie accommodation), my point is, your paying with your hard earned money for something, so expect and demand all that is required to bring that accommodation up to a standard worth living in ! If that doesn't work, get your free hour with a solicitor. My friend did just that because of a damp bedroom which she complained about for years. She received a four figure pay out for her health and ruined clothes !!

[tropicopter]

I have to say it looks as if not only has nothing improved, but things have actually gone down hill since I last resided in a MQ more than 30 years ago in 1969. When I was first married, being an officer under the age of 25 I was not entitled to a quarter and privately rented a delightful bijou cottage in a small village from a wonderful and generous landlady. My first taste of quarters was on moving to southeast England where (with the rules now changed to permit an officer over the age of 21 to occupy a quarter) I moved into my one-and-only MQ, with MPBW and the MQO conducting the march-in which made me feel like a stupid little schoolboy. The rent was high and the heating was with those wonderful cheap-to-run night storage heaters. During the strikes of 1970, whilst I was away on one of the many detachments we had, my poor wife would sit wrapped up in a bed quilt, reading by the light of candles and cooking over a camping Gaz stove, there being no alternative to electricity in the quarters. Getting anything to grow in the gardens was difficult as when the quarters were built all the top soil had been removed to what became a so-called recreational area, and never moved back to the gardens by the building contractor when the houses were completed. We took a week getting ready for the march out. I swore I would never live in a quarter again and I never did, even though all we could afford to buy was a tiny mid-terrace 2 bedroom house. Quite a number of my friends at the time who had children were trying to claim income support and a couple, whose wives were teachers locally, moved into council houses. Our nation has never properly taken care of the housing needs of its servicemen and women, despite the service they render to their country and the difficulties faced by many families being moved around between bases every few years. I used to commute 10 hours to my home )on the few occasions I could afford to do so) after a posting as I could not afford to move. This made the already considerable separations even worse. Successive governments of whichever party have continued to ignore the housing needs of those responsible for their defence and politicians being what they are I dare say the situation will never improve. :mad:

[thom]

Wow, now there's a memory or two, 'Marching Out'.

On my hands and knees with a bowl of hot water and bleach, scrubbing an 'Army-table-dining' plus six chairs, whilst been stood over by two housing officers, and being told 'don't ever present anything like that again'. The chairs had suffered two years of normal wear and tear, totally unacceptable to the housing !!!

Oh the joy of owning one's own place !! :D

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

As promised, an update for those who are interested.

DHE had not done any of the works to my quarter by the time I had returned off my hols( Yes they did have a key). That was a month after reporting the faults. I wrote to them again, this time elevating the issue by writing to local DHE office, Area manager and Regional Controller, reiterating that I would employ a workman to carry out the work if they had not done so within the following 2 weeks. Additionally I told them that they had also failed to follow the laid down procedure for responding to my earlier written complaint in that they had not replied within 10 working days. Three days after writing the letter, my wife recieved a call from the Area Manager at 0715hrs to say that the works/garden wold be rectified to the appropriate standard immediately. The small faults with the house are now all but done, however, we have a slight impasse with the garden.

DHE did indeed send a contractor to returf my rear lawn, however, they laid only a small amount of turf and left 95% of it in its overgrown and unnaceptable state. This work cost them £370 and was quite frankly disgraceful and a rip off by the contractor. They will now return on Thursday to completely returf the right side of the garden, but they are proving stubborn over the major part of the garden, insisting it is seeded. This would be fine if they were to prepare it correctly, but of course they will just throw seed over the meadow grass and weeds that are now firmly established.

I will wait and seed what mess they make of it and then write once again. I still have only received an acknowlegement letter from DHE and they only have 2 days to respond fully in writing. If they don't, and/or the work to the garden is unsatisfactory, I will raise the stakes once more and write to the Director of DHE housing in Town, indicating that I revoke authority for DHE to take rent from my salary until the issue is resolved to my satisfaction. You will note that you have to sign the license to agree for the rent etc to be deducted from your pay.

Sorry its long winded.

HPT

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Another Update:

Now the proud owner of a very nice, tidy rear garden. Half of it completely re-turfed, the other half tidied, trimmed and reseeded. Just goes to show that if you follow the correct complaints procedure, DHE can pull their finger out. Such a shame I had to resort to threats in the first place though.

HPT
:)