Laudamotion

[180Knots]

Morning lads.
T&C about this airline ?

[sekmeth]

Go to Career.aero, you can find it in the download section after your application.
good luck!

[bairni]

the CBA (for Austria) can be found here:

https://www.kollektivvertrag.at/kv/laudamotion-ang/laudamotion-rahmen/263130?term=laudamotion

(use google translator as appropriate)

[eiffel]

Is German a prerequisite? Are they recruiting?

[Jabulani]

Yes they do, only type rated and only for Vienna

[eiffel]

Latest info from HR yesterday: they are not recuiting at the moment.

[VJW]

Morning lads.

Is everyone on prune male?

[180Knots]

Is everyone on prune male?

I hope no! Was I "unpolite" !?!?

Latest info from HR yesterday: they are not recuiting at the moment.

Any level ( NTR , TR ,CPT) ?

[VJW]

I hope no! Was I "unpolite" !?!?

I now assume English isn’t your first language so you can be forgiven. For information though, the term ‘lads’ is an informal way of referring to a group of men.

[A320baby]

Vjw come on lighten up

[VJW]

Vjw come on lighten up

As I said, it appears it was unintentional, however I don't have to lighten up if I feel someone is being sexist..

[Jabulani]

Latest info from HR yesterday: they are not recuiting at the moment.

Seems that they have different knowledge levels in their HR department concerning hiring or not, I have received an email today saying: hiring A320 rated pilots only but not in Germany....

[CaptainProp]

Recruitment emails and ads doesn’t necessarily mean a company is currently hiring.
CP

[ciccinovolante]

Hi guys. I’m pretty new on the community since I’m working for a company which has not to me mentioned in this pilots forum. I’m currently looking to relocate back to Europe and, being an A320 Captain, I checked which are the options around the Old continent. Any of you can share fresh news about Lauda motion? Is it a good company? Is it worth to work for it? How is the assessment process? Any info will be much appreciated, thanks to all.

[ciccinovolante]

Hi guys. Anyone in the community has fresh info regarding working conditions: roster, payroll, environment? Any update will be much appreciated

[UAV689]

Job advert for pmi stated 95k euro for capt, that was based on 900hrs a yr, 5/3 5/2 roster. Sounds awful and clearly lauda and buzz are going to be the threat to existing crews to accept even worse terms

[Newcomer2]

For Capt. 75h per month expect 98000 euros per year in Palma and 10700 in Vienna, gross.
Expect half of it after taxes (they have to be paid in Austria either way) so between 4100 and 4500 per month

[randon]

Job advert for pmi stated 95k euro for capt, that was based on 900hrs a yr, 5/3 5/2 roster. Sounds awful and clearly lauda and buzz are going to be the threat to existing crews to accept even worse terms

Ouch.. Conditions are downhill in Europe...

[ciccinovolante]

Hi Newcomer2. Do you know how much is the taxation in Austria? It seems to be a super low salary for 75h....I thougth was allined with Ryanair payroll

[Newcomer2]

Hi Newcomer2. Do you know how much is the taxation in Austria? It seems to be a super low salary for 75h....I thougth was allined with Ryanair payroll

Taxation in Austria is really high, about 50% of your gross salary. There are online tax calculators as well, they give the same figures.
You can also compare the gross salaries and you will see that the conditions are definitely not the same: the total package for a ryanair captain in Spain is around 154000 euros per year, in Lauda based in Palma (same country!) it's 98000, so 37% less.

There's a reason why ryanair is stopping the recruitment and closing bases, it's a management tactic to transfer the flights to their other airlines where the conditions are worse. Capitalism at its best...

[Daddy Fantastic]

As I said, it appears it was unintentional, however I don't have to lighten up if I feel someone is being sexist..

As an airplane is about to crash, a female passenger jumps up frantically and announces, "If I'm going to die, I want to die feeling like a woman." She removes all her clothing and asks, "Is there someone on this plane who is man enough to make me feel like a woman?" A man stands up, removes his shirt and says, "Here, iron this!".

[Daddy Fantastic]

As I said, it appears it was unintentional, however I don't have to lighten up if I feel someone is being sexist..

A man is lying on the beach, wearing nothing but a cap over his crotch. A woman passing by remarks, "If you were any sort of a gentleman, you would lift your hat to a lady." He replies, "If you were any sort of a sexy lady, the hat would lift by itself."

[gearlever]

Austro Control investigations (German) (https://www.austrianwings.info/2019/09/sicherheitskultur-austro-control-ermittelt-gegen-laudamotion/)

[Newcomer2]

Sorry I don't speak German, but using google translate I understand that 4 pilots were fired because they made some ASRs, and that the airline is now under investigation, is that correct?

[gearlever]

Austro Control examines error culture at Laudamotion (https://www.en24.news/2019/09/austro-control-examines-error-culture-at-laudamotion-wien-aktuell.html)

The four pilots were former Head of Flight Operations, Head of Training Departement, Vice Head of Training Departement and Chief Technical Pilot.

[sonicbum]

Austro Control examines error culture at Laudamotion (https://www.en24.news/2019/09/austro-control-examines-error-culture-at-laudamotion-wien-aktuell.html)

The four pilots were former Head of Flight Operations, Head of Training Departement, Vice Head of Training Departement and Chief Technical Pilot.

The apple does not fall too far from the tree I guess.

[BoeingLudo737]

The apple does not fall too far from the tree I guess.

Give it up, you are ridiculous

[El Capitano]

Give it up, you are ridiculous
Everyone is free to apply for the airline he/she would like to fly for, but please stop applying at Lauda Motion, buzz and Ryanair Sun and even Ryanair main airline.
Don,t accept their crappy conditions, even much worser than Ryanair itself. Again a evasive tactic from O leary and his scum management: closing bases where the unions did fight for market conform conditions and instead serving these bases with their freshly launched new airlines, Lauda Motion, Buzz, Air Malta and Ryanair Sun with much lower salaries. No pilot or cabin crew should accept these insult terms and conditiins, by simply not applying at all.
And again it is made clear that all pilot and cabin crew union
from each individual (European) state should merge together and make one big common protest at EU commision level to stop these slavery conditions. It is high time that the low fare race to the bottom is being stopped!!
It is a fact that in the USA the conditions are much better, thanks to a very strong union who continues fighting hard for the conditions their union members deserve!

[gearlever]

El Capitano,

well said, I fully agree.
Sad the EU Commission cares about the shape of bananas but concerning working conditions in aviation they seem like a toothless tiger to me.

[bulldog89]

I agree.
The fact the EU is permitting this is just ridiculous.

[RoyHudd]

EU? No thank you

[Aso]

El Capitano,

well said, I fully agree.
Sad the EU Commission cares about the shape of bananas but concerning working conditions in aviation they seem like a toothless tiger to me.

Sorry get your facts straight: the banana stories and similar non sense we got thanks to Boris the liar https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/07/boris-johnson-peddled-absurd-eu-myths-and-our-disgraceful-press-followed-his

Social dumping is very high on the social agenda at both the EC and EASA thanks to Ryanair.... Only issue it takes time to ensure that all parties that negotiate (read unions, employers, states, etc) have agreed on a text that suits most.

So stop reading the Daily Mail and maybe ask your union what they are doing on this issue and ask what you can do!

[TinFoilhat]

Well of course you can join, get a type rating and some experience and just move on. Maybe thats what they want. Seems a silly way to run an airline to me but once a pilot has enough jet time they will just move on for better paying jobs.

These rubbish paying LCC operators will be in a state of perpetual hiring which seems crazy.

[CaptainProp]

Well of course you can join, get a type rating and some experience and just move on. Maybe thats what they want. Seems a silly way to run an airline to me but once a pilot has enough jet time they will just move on for better paying jobs.

These rubbish paying LCC operators will be in a state of perpetual hiring which seems crazy.

Cheaper than having to pay for loyalty of people staying too long with the company. Sad but that’s the way that calculation goes.

CP

[tcas69]

Taxation in Austria is really high, about 50% of your gross salary. There are online tax calculators as well, they give the same figures.
You can also compare the gross salaries and you will see that the conditions are definitely not the same: the total package for a ryanair captain in Spain is around 154000 euros per year, in Lauda based in Palma (same country!) it's 98000, so 37% less.

There's a reason why ryanair is stopping the recruitment and closing bases, it's a management tactic to transfer the flights to their other airlines where the conditions are worse. Capitalism at its best...
I suggest you do not apply to this company!!!!
having said that there are many special tricks in Austria which bring the taxrate down!
Evrybody gets 14 monthly salaries (13/14 in June/November) Urlaubsgeld/Christmasbonus taxed at 6! Percent that’s law!
6 weeks of annual payed leave( 42 days) that’s law!
basically gets U down to max 42% tax. Tricky to compare with other countries.
and I repeat in spite of this correction : do not apply for this company

[Newcomer2]

Tcas69,
the figures I gave are gross per year and already include the 13th and 14th month. Whether you divide 98000 euros gross by 12 or by 14, it's still 98000 euros gross per year for a captain, whatever that makes net in your pocket

[Council Van]

Sorry get your facts straight: the banana stories and similar non sense we got thanks to Boris the liar https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/07/boris-johnson-peddled-absurd-eu-myths-and-our-disgraceful-press-followed-his

Social dumping is very high on the social agenda at both the EC and EASA thanks to Ryanair.... Only issue it takes time to ensure that all parties that negotiate (read unions, employers, states, etc) have agreed on a text that suits most.

So stop reading the Daily Mail and maybe ask your union what they are doing on this issue and ask what you can do!

So whilst you are busy lecturing every one about what they read you then point us in the direction of some equally agenda driven drivel whilst ignoring that EC Commission Regulation No 2257/94 did used to exist and included regulations about the size and shape of Banana's and Cucumbers. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2453204/Bent-banana-and-curved-cucumber-rules-dropped-by-EU.html
​​​​​​ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2453204/Bent-banana-and-curved-cucumber-rules-dropped-by-EU.html)

[UAV689]

Rapidly apparent that lauds and sun are to be the lower cost arm of the lowest cost arm in Europe...

its a a massive rinse and repeat job, with some ex architects of ryr parachuted into lauda, even
offering jobs to cadets that applied to ryr now switched to lauda and Christ knows what terms..

whilst at at the same time closing Spanish bases and replacing them with lauda or sun crews.

[CaptainProp]

......and still they never run out of applications......unbelievable.....

CP

[Newcomer2]

And the unions doing...nothing

[CaptainProp]

And the unions doing...nothing


Are the Laudamotion pilots in the union? If no proper representation then hard for union to do much. Either way, Austria has always had some of the worst T&Cs in Europe so not really surprised....

CP

[Newcomer2]

Well, the unions in Ryanair could obviously call for a strike to prevent the company from transfering their flights to their other airlines. That has already been done elsewhere in Europe.
The problem is that the unions in Ryanair don't seem to be working together. Some strike in august, some in September,...you get my point: easy for the company to cover the strikes by sending people from other bases to cover them.
Now if all the unions in ryanair, from every country, were calling for a single common strike to stop the development of Laudamotion/Buzz/Malta air at the expense of the Ryanair employees who have better conditions, then maybe things would change a little.

[UAV689]

Unfortunately it’s illegal in most countries to coordinate a strike across different territories, so the unions hands are tied in that respect

[a350pilots]

Is it illegal for management to coordinate the cancelled flight?
Last time, Lauda Motion crew were the strikebreaker for Ryanair.
Disgraceful.

[Sky17_]

Good evening! Anyone joined Lauda recently ore have more info about TR with them? They’re offering PMI and VIE base.. the salary seems to be very very low..

[El Capitano]

Good evening! Anyone joined Lauda recently ore have more info about TR with them? They’re offering PMI and VIE base.. the salary seems to be very very low..

Please, please, don,t even consider to apply! Otherwise you will keep on feeding the cancer in aviation: the downslope in terms and conditions. If no one applies, they don,t even have the pilots to replace striking pilots in other RYR subsidiaries.
Indeed, all (RYR) pilot unions should work together and organise a pan European strike, if needed lasting several days in a row. Only than you will get things moving.
look at what happens today: because almost every BA pilot is member of the SAME union, they can organize a big massive strik and almost the complete fleet is grounded. That will give big disruption for the passengers and will hit the management hard. They will have to listen!

E.C.

[UAV689]

Good evening! Anyone joined Lauda recently ore have more info about TR with them? They’re offering PMI and VIE base.. the salary seems to be very very low..

The salary is low!! Its the low cost arm of the low cost Ryanair!! The pmi base salary takes 8 years to earn what a ryr “mainline” capt earns....

[rubani17]

The salary is low!! Its the low cost arm of the low cost Ryanair!! The pmi base salary takes 8 years to earn what a ryr “mainline” capt earns....
Crazy times we are living in.

[Sky17_]

Thanks for answering.. the attractive part is that they’re “offering” (bond) the Type rating and if you’re staying with them more than 3 year is.. let’s say “for free”!

But comparing to Ryan and other companies, the salary is very low.. 2500€/net for an experienced First Officer is really nothing.

[Banana Joe]

A bond is not free.

[tomuchwork]

Oh gawd. You've been at easyjet too long already. ;-)

Lol. Had the same thought while reading this thread from top to bottom. Must be fun in the COCKpit(ohh, am I sexistic now as well? ;-))

[737ng_x]

Hey !

Anyone here was called for the Lauda screening ?

Thx

[Sky17_]

Hey !

Anyone here was called for the Lauda screening ?

Thx
Hi,

A friend of mine has been invited.. seems to be same screening as Ryanair..

[TinFoilhat2]

Anybody know the terms and conditions?

[crj_z2]

Roster:
5 early / 2 off / 5 late / 3 off. What is early and what is late is not defined, but expect "early" to be a start some time between 3am and noon and "late" a check-out between 9pm and 2am. The schedule is unstable. Typical rosters contain a lot of STBY duties. If you do not achieve 850 block hours, the company can take you out of this pattern and roster you on a flexible basis. Confirmed rosters are published on Fri for the next week and every duty is subject to change to another one of the same type (early/late) until you check in. At the moment, flight crews get 35 days vacation, which can (theoretically) be requested also on short notice on any duty day. The company prefers you to take vacation during the winter. If you reach 850hrs, you are expected to use up your annual leave thereafter.

Salary:
Entry level FO: 3.200EUR / CPT: 6.300EUR / month "guaranteed" gross (Includes 35 block hours).
If you fly more, you will receive additional scheduled block hour pay - up to 70hrs that is 18EUR/h for FOs and 31EUR/h for CPTs gross, thereafter the block hour rate increases. If you are not a training captain, expect about 60hrs/month.

Pilots, that come with experience on aircraft with a MTOW above 19.5T can join on a higher salary level. Each 1.000hrs on such aircraft types count as 1 year. The complete pay scale can be found in the original CLA under paragraph 7. The guaranteed monthly gross salary is listed under 7.5, the block hour pay under 7.2. Google "Kollektivvertrag Laudamotion" to find it.

Contract:
Training contract with training pay (Level 1 without block hour pay or daily allowances, if off-base) until the final line check, thereafter you get assigned to a base and receive the permanent contract. The training base is typically VIE.

Overall the morale in the company is low. Recently there have been quite a few terminations of senior / long-term staff.

[TinFoilhat2]

Sounds like a great place to work....said nobody ever!!

[polskiland]

18 euro/h? Cabby driver makes even more!

[EAM]

18 euro/h? Cabby driver makes even more!

On top of a 3200€ basic salary, not bad, which city is that?

[CaptainProp]

Roster:
5 early / 2 off / 5 late / 3 off. What is early and what is late is not defined, but expect "early" to be a start some time between 3am and noon and "late" a check-out between 9pm and 2am. The schedule is unstable. Typical rosters contain a lot of STBY duties. If you do not achieve 850 block hours, the company can take you out of this pattern and roster you on a flexible basis. Confirmed rosters are published on Fri for the next week and every duty is subject to change to another one of the same type (early/late) until you check in. At the moment, flight crews get 35 days vacation, which can (theoretically) be requested also on short notice on any duty day. The company prefers you to take vacation during the winter. If you reach 850hrs, you are expected to use up your annual leave thereafter.

Salary:
Entry level FO: 3.200EUR / CPT: 6.300EUR / month "guaranteed" gross (Includes 35 block hours).
If you fly more, you will receive additional scheduled block hour pay - up to 70hrs that is 18EUR/h for FOs and 31EUR/h for CPTs gross, thereafter the block hour rate increases. If you are not a training captain, expect about 60hrs/month.

Pilots, that come with experience on aircraft with a MTOW above 19.5T can join on a higher salary level. Each 1.000hrs on such aircraft types count as 1 year. The complete pay scale can be found in the original CLA under paragraph 7. The guaranteed monthly gross salary is listed under 7.5, the block hour pay under 7.2. Google "Kollektivvertrag Laudamotion" to find it.

Contract:
Training contract with training pay (Level 1 without block hour pay or daily allowances, if off-base) until the final line check, thereafter you get assigned to a base and receive the permanent contract. The training base is typically VIE.

Overall the morale in the company is low. Recently there have been quite a few terminations of senior / long-term staff.

As I said before........and still they never run out of applications......unbelievable.....

CP

[PositiveGhostrider]

On top of a 3200€ basic salary, not bad, which city is that?
Gross, mind you, so I'd assume no more than 50% of it is take-home pay

[pilot hans]

Almost sounds like a joke but in fact it's not...

[polskiland]

On top of a 3200€ basic salary, not bad, which city is that?

Eh, in every bigger western city? Plus it's gross - but hey you should apply I think Laudamotion is the perfect fit for you!

[Full_blast]

CRJ_z2 post is great, so I’ll also share my info extracted from a Laudamotion pdf.

PMI (Palma de Mallorca) base, direct entry FO, A320 rated. All amounts are gross.
Year 1: 2300€
Year 2 to 4: 2700€
Year 5 to 7: 3200€
As of year 8: 3500€

Blockhour payment, numbers are gross:
1-70: 18€
71-90: 35€
from 91: 71€

Miscellaneous allowances, numbers are gross per operating day:
TRI 200€
course-trainer 134€
Office day 134€

13th and 14th salary (payable June and November)
Basic salary + 1250€

———————————————

Vacation: 35 calendar days per year

110 OFF days at homebase per year.
MAR to MAY: minimum 9 OFF days
JUN to OCT: minimum 8 OFF days
NOV to FEB minimum 10 OFF days

Roster:
Published monthly on the 21st of the prior month
Flexible roster
Mostly point to point operation

[EAM]

Eh, in every bigger western city? Plus it's gross - but hey you should apply I think Laudamotion is the perfect fit for you!

Ahh, so a cab driver gets it net, that would mean he makes more than 5k net a month, fu.ck man, of course I would apply for that.

[zahnpastaesser]

Ahh, so a cab driver gets it net, that would mean he makes more than 5k net a month, fu.ck man, of course I would apply for that.

Are cab drivers paid by the block-hour too? And are Airline-Pilots tipped?

[bulldog89]

Is the pilot paying to fuel the plane? You're all comparing apples to oranges and it's getting ridiculous to be honest.

[Sky17_]

As far I understood if you apply for PMI your salary will be taxed in AU and the social part in Spain. So considering 3800€ Gross (basic group year 2 + block of 50/55hrs) and simulating all tax and social in Au, the NET will be around 2500€. In Spain the social/health part should be lower compared to the AU one, so I think we can consider a net of 2700/2800€ PMI 50/55 hrs (joining on the second year contract). Around 3100€ if you fly 75hrs.

[OutsideCAS]

Around 3100€ if you fly 75hrs

Not particularly great IMHO.

[Sky17_]

Not particularly great IMHO.

Absolutely not, that’s the reason why they’re accepting NTR (with bond) .. is not easy to find a rated and experienced pilot to accept such conditions.

For a NTR can be a way to start with 320 without anticipating €.

[TinFoilhat2]

Well that is just a terrible deal, needs to be double that at a minimum!

[EAM]

Well, you can fly a 777 for less. ;-)

[737ng_x]

They are talking about 150 block hours required ? Is it Type (Airbus) Hours or general time ?
Thanks !

[Sky17_]

They are talking about 150 block hours required ? Is it Type (Airbus) Hours or general time ?
Thanks !

It's general time.

[Nick 1]

They should ad a DE ...LaudaDEmotion

[austrian71]

Well, its quite simple: If you get a job at your home and dont have any option you stay, even with these crap t&c´s. I did it myself. If you accept to work for peanuts you have also to accept being treated like a monkey. It will never ever change, and RYR knows this. Just wait and see how they will succeed in future, they know their business and LM crews are perfect batteries for their toys. Everybody gets what he earns, this works in both sides :)

[Sky17_]

Well, its quite simple: If you get a job at your home and dont have any option you stay, even with these crap t&c´s. I did it myself. If you accept to work for peanuts you have also to accept being treated like a monkey. It will never ever change, and RYR knows this. Just wait and see how they will succeed in future, they know their business and LM crews are perfect batteries for their toys. Everybody gets what he earns, this works in both sides :)

I agree with you... If you’re at home the conditions are OK, if you need to go out to earn 1000€ more it’s the same..
What about the environment in the company? Colleagues? Average monthly hours in both PMI and VIE?

[crj_z2]

I agree with you... If you’re at home the conditions are OK, if you need to go out to earn 1000€ more it’s the same..
What about the environment in the company? Colleagues? Average monthly hours in both PMI and VIE?


The colleagues on the line, in maintenance, etc... are usually pleasant to get along and work with.

The environment:
The company appears to grow - people are being sent to OCC and type rating courses and there are a few more deliveries due. So there are definitely opportunities. So much for the bright side. It was recently announced, that, if the flight crews @VIE would not accept a new "base agreement", 30 pilot jobs @ VIE would be cut and 4 B737s from RYR would take over some routes. As austrian71 noted, people accept certain things for preserving not only their own, but also their colleague's jobs at home - which is perfectly understandable in a way.
After the agreement was signed, not 30, but still several people were terminated by the management anyway. It appears, that "trust" may therefor not be the correct word to describe the environment at the moment.

Hours at the VIE base: Average 60/month - I am not familiar with PMI/STR/DUS rosters.

[74world]

Just for info, what would be the take home pay (NET salary) for a Captain under the new conditions for 60h?

[Newcomer2]

Just for info, what would be the take home pay (NET salary) for a Captain under the new conditions for 60h?

Shameful, disgraceful, etc...there are not enough words to qualify the pay.
But to answer your question, the salary in Vienna is a little bit higher than in Palma, but it's still a disgrace:

Year 1 for a Captain: 5182 basic (gross) + 60x31.15 flight pay = 7051 euros gross
After the taxes in Austria, probably around 3800 net

[bairni]

translation of the collective agreement valid in VIE:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kollektivvertrag.at%2Fkv%2Flaudamotion-ang%3Fd%3DTouch

gross/net calculator for austria.
just fill in the gross amount you want to calculate, add 360€ as income tax free and there you go. all other options are negligible.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinerechner.haude.at%2Fbmf%2Fbrutto-netto-rechner.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinerechner.haud e.at%2Fbmf%2Fbrutto-netto-rechner.html)

edit:

7051€ from one post above is about 4250€ net 12 times a year + extra holiday bonus in june 5500€ + extra christmas bonus 6000€ in november

so if you convert 14 payments to 12 months you'll earn 5200€/m

[Newcomer2]

Are you implying that the bonuses are tax free in Austria?
Anyway, 5200 is still a shame for a 320 captain

Edit: according to my calculator 7051 gross gives 4075 net

[bairni]

these bonuses have a reduced taxation and less social security as per law.
4075€ net is correct when you do not take care of the 360€ tax bonus because of working on weekends/holidays and under risky conditions.

[74world]

holy SH!T !!!!! And they are getting applicants ????

[booze]

That is WZZ SFO salary :D oh, and you can be based in VIE, too.

[El Capitano]

Don,t accept this ****ty conditions. The ones already flying there organize a massive strike, the ones who would like to join, stop applying. There are far more better options!

E.C.

[behindyou]

I can only confirm what has already been posted: STAY FAR AWAY from this company.

[pilot hans]

they cancelled a lot of courses for cadets a while ago for RYR, those people were put in a holding pool, pretty sure they gonna force those to go there... then telling the public they have lots of people applying... says it all I guess, no???

[Banana Joe]

This is exactly what is happening. Some Ryanair cadets have been sent to Laudamotion. Also captains.

[IFLYyouBREATH]

I match all their requirements and lovely received a PFO.

[_AIRMAN_]

Me too. I guess they are saving spots for fired repositioned RYR pilots ��

[Dan Winterland]

The threat of a strike action can be just as damaging as an actual strike. BA have been blindsided by this move. It can, and I'm sure will be used again. Clever move.

[BoeingLudo737]

This is exactly what is happening. Some Ryanair cadets have been sent to Laudamotion. Also captains.

You should be banned for all the c... you write in here.

[Sky17_]

Hi guys, someone know which base will they open in the future? Seems that a 5th one will be announced soon..

[matt283]

Hi guys, someone know which base will they open in the future? Seems that a 5th one will be announced soon..

One of the recently announced to be “closed” ryr bases...

[dirk85]

Dedicated to BoeingLudo737, who will without a doubt explain us this is not true, and that we should all be banned for defaming Ryanair.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/732x914/7784bb0e_eba6_4c95_92d3_25ddc6d47f9b_0aa25e5b8bf74f81f209a96 59f49cb8394ef94df_jpeg_3e72bb90e6830f174fc7ecd9f0811d64f81a8 51d.jpg

[sonicbum]

I truly hope BoeingLudo737 is a troll, otherwise he is in for a good wake up call sooner or later.

[CaptainProp]

No need to accept these low T&Cs. easyJet are recruiting FOs for Porto and Palma. Porto T&Cs better now and I believe max FO pay is now €80k+ / year.

CP

[Sky17_]

Now seems that type bond in lauda is 15k€ iso 36k€. The pay is like easyjet Porto and the type self sponsored (around 24k€).

[CaptainProp]

Now seems that type bond in lauda is 15k€ iso 36k€. The pay is like easyjet Porto and the type self sponsored (around 24k€).

If you read info above from other posters pay is nowhere near easyJet’s pay, not even in Porto where pay is lower than France, Italy, Germany etc.

CP

[elporco]

Greetings folks. Could you confirm that there is indeed a training bond for type rated DECs? Thanks.

[bairni]

the whole works council of Laudamotion has stepped back today as it was the most unfruitful social partnership in Austrian aviation history.

one member of the works council was fired in the same turn by the company.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail/lauda-betriebsrat-geschlossen-zurueckgetreten/?fbclid=IwAR0oWKZhc-AUbhm0WL3RzEPOVDs5-U0Rdx9BBCDCGbF3oacjueDru5_hKAQ
(pls use transaltor for english version)

[FlightDetent]

tier 2 Ryanair This.

Local RYR base is getting closed and crew offered a transfer to Polish Ryanair - the flights and capacity to continue undisrupted. The actual arrangement is so poorly done (offered to sign a new contract until a deadline while the said contract does not physically exist) it made the headlines in the regional press.

When I read here that Laudamotion had an actual proper labour agreement (link provided recently) it was a funny feeling. That spot did not match the animal but now we know. :mad:

[Pilotenguy]

I don't understand why management thinks that they can keep salaries secret.
It's going to backfire if all Lauda and Buzz request same pay as Ryanair DAC.
What will they do? Open a 6th airline and threatening people out again?
​​​​

[Full_blast]

I don't understand why management thinks that they can keep salaries secret.
It's going to backfire if all Lauda and Buzz request same pay as Ryanair DAC.
What will they do? Open a 6th airline and threatening people out again?
​​​​

These salaries are based on 850h/year that at present you won’t fly.

https://ibb.co/5RYYpk9
https://ibb.co/X5q73rY

Apologies for using an image hosting website but I couldn’t upload them using the forum.
Feel free to spread the pictures and/or attach them properly. People need to know.

[Pilotenguy]

These salaries are based on 850h/year that at present you won’t fly.


Apologies for using an image hosting website but I couldn’t upload them using the forum.
Feel free to spread the pictures and/or attach them properly. People need to know.

Wait.. Correct if I'm wrong.
Someone at those Ryanair threatened bases will take at least a €20k paycut (maybe more) and move to a country with higher tax rate, work more days, less flying hours and at least 3yrs? Ridiculous

[Oscar748]

Hey guys,
Anyone staring their Type rating the 18th of November ?
Cheers,

Oscar748

[bereyb]

Hey guys,
Anyone staring their Type rating the 18th of November ?
Cheers,

Oscar748
I have a TR starting date at 2nd December 2019. I have sent you private message as well.

[bairni]

Next hot News from Vienna:

Laudamotion has stopped hiring on Laudamotion Contracts and will now exclusively offer temporary contracts through an agency.

The company will also not recognize the newly elected workers council.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail/lauda-leiharbeit-fuer-alle-kuenftigen-piloten-und-flugbegleiter/
(Sorry German again)

[EAM]

back to the roots.

[Eskere777]

What can we do guys... that's the general situation, better times will come

[733driver]

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised but I'm shocked nonetheless. A leopard really doesn't change its spots. I hate Ryanair and everything they stand for. I can only advise everyone to stay away from that lot.

[crj_z2]

It seems, RYR will use their current setup to bring as many flight crews as they can onto bogus self-employment contracts at one of the new AOCs. With the 737max delivery delays, the way they have to keep their market share, is to grow the A320 fleet - many new hires and upgrades are therefor about to come onto these new contracts at LDM. Once a critical mass is reached, the "old" directly employed people will be allowed to either volunteer for the self-employed contract or leave. If too many dare to be non-compliant, they will just see another AOC of the group take over routes at their base on a wet lease basis with the respective alternate aircraft type, until they are more motivated. A shame, that this is even legal!

[Rafdr2]

Hey guys,
Anyone staring their Type rating the 18th of November ?
Cheers,

Oscar748

Hi Oscar, I am supposed to start my Type Rating on the 18th of November as well.....do you have any news ?

[BoeingLudo737]

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised but I'm shocked nonetheless. A leopard really doesn't change its spots. I hate Ryanair and everything they stand for. I can only advise everyone to stay away from that lot.

I love all the conspiracy theories on this forum

[box]

I love all the conspiracy theories on this forum

What is so conspiracy about this???

[dirk85]

What is so conspiracy about this???

Don’t feed the troll, read the post history of BoeingLudo and you will realize there is no point to discuss with him/her.

[Eskere777]

I'm starting the type 4/11. Still no specific information, no idea about what's going on

[BoeingLudo737]

Don’t feed the troll, read the post history of BoeingLudo and you will realize there is no point to discuss with him/her.

you are so wise

[Eskere777]

For who's starting on 4/11, send a private so we can arrange an accommodation!

[flyingmed]

Hopefully it doesn't rain too hard or the 'Buzz' & 'Laudamotion' might slip off! FR seem to have completely out maneuvered and stayed so far ahead of any unions on this it is crazy. Back to the old days of contractors everywhere working via agencies.

I don't like what FR + others have done but I have to acknowledge how they seem to have run laps around the unions and labor laws. Shameful show by the EU unions! Maybe if they head hunted a few of the strategy staff in FR they might actually get somewhere :mad:

[SMT Member]

Year 1 for a Captain: = 7051 euros grossAfter the taxes in Austria, probably around 3800 net
That is indeed an utter disgrace. I've just started a job in the quality department (non-managerial) of an aviation service provider, working 37 hours a week Monday to Friday, every single weekend and public holiday off, 6 weeks of paid vacation and 10% pension contribution from the company. The initial offer was north of that quoted above, and that was just setting the basis for negotiations. The requirement to do my job? No formal skills, only experience. Taking command of a commercial jetliner in Europe for less than 10K a month is, frankly, devaluing yourself to the point airline management must be pissing themselves laughing. And yet, you do, more and more every day, all whilst bitching and moaning and doing sod all about it. But thus is the nature of an airline pilot; mainly driven by self-interest, short sighted and willing to step on a fellow pilot to get an advantage whilst complaining about the ever eroding terms and conditions.

Well, there's only one answer to that: Toughen up ladies, stop posting drivel on PPRUNE and start actually doing something. Like withdrawing your labour in a collective fashion, across borders, companies and legislations. Alternatively you could or just accept that the days driving an airborne bus was a gold paved avenue to a life of near-leisure are gone, never to return, and that it has been replaced with ever increasing work for ever decreasing renumeration.

Blame the old sods on the top of the seniority ladder, who've fettered their nest and paid nothing but lip service to those on the lower rungs, particularly the new entrants.

[rubani17]

Finished flight training in 2008 got employed with an operator who has since gone bust on the 737-800 I decided to sit out the recession.I managed to get a job with an investment bank purely on my pilots licence.

I am looking at getting back to flying but the salaries involved are shocking.We do road shows around europe targeting guys and girls who have finished uni preferably with a masters in finance related degree,staring salary is about 70K eur however there are no takers because all the top companies are doing the same roadshows offering higher salaries than we do.

We do loads of business in Africa hence we do charter quite a bit of Kingair 200s into remote areas of east and central africa.A king air Capt in east africa makes about 500 usd a day working about 20 days a month and the FO about 150 euros a day.

What is happening in Europe is crazy!

[bereyb]

Still nobody here starting on 2ndDec?

[733driver]

I feel sorry for everyone starting there. You are selling your souls to the devil. Maybe you feel that you have no choice, but that's rarely the case. Don't say you haven't been warned. You are joining a terrible company.

[booze]

My thoughts exactly. When i lost my job back in March i didn't even look at Euroland: moved with the family to Asia for top dollar, and id travel. Work is still hard, though...

[RunBoyRun]

Because you had a family ready and willing to move. That might not be the case for everybody. Reality is not black or white, top managers know this well and they play the "see how low we can go" game.

[RoyHudd]

Nobody should ever consider joining this slave-labour outfit. But some will, simply to try and repay their training loans, or parents. On their pay scales, this will not be possible. It makes one wonder what grade of commercial pilot would find the need to work for such small remuneration.

My only recourse personally is never to choose to fly with this outfit. That is a given for me. I will not explain, as their lawyers will pursue anyone who makes insinuations on issues unfavourable to this airline and those partnered with it. Go figure..

[bereyb]

RD1912!
f you read this thread. Ireceived you private message, but couldn't reply because your inbox exceeded the quota. I've sent you my private phone nr. to discuss on whatsupp. So you should delete some messages to receive my message.

[Mcflyer101]

Does anyone know if Ryanair pilots are moving across to Lauda?

[UAV689]

Does anyone know if Ryanair pilots are moving across to Lauda?

Adverts/Memo's were sent to pilots offering them the opportunity to jump across, subject to paying for an airbus rating, personally I have not heard of any that took the offer up.

The new chief pilot at Lauda is an ex-regional base captain at Ryanair, so at least one has gone across!

[rotorwills]

Could be a good move for Boeing people to get an airbus type rating. Some may want to go down such a path. So many different factors can hold sway in such a decision. Wouldn't condemn or comment on a potential move for RyanAir crew.
My only comment would be that the pay appears to be somewhat underwhelming.

[733driver]

My only comment would be that the pay appears to be somewhat underwhelming.

Understatement of the month.

[juris]

Adverts/Memo's were sent to pilots offering them the opportunity to jump across, subject to paying for an airbus rating, personally I have not heard of any that took the offer up.

The new chief pilot at Lauda is an ex-regional base captain at Ryanair, so at least one has gone across!

A320 TR for RYR pilots is bonded 15k/3y, no upfront payment, no salary deductions.

[Eskere777]

Speaking about the payment, it depends also on how Austria is taxing the base salary and then block hours. Some counties have several layers of taxation. Let's wait for someone from Lauda, maybe the picture could be clearer

[733driver]

I have seen a Lauda (crewlink) contract for a Captain(!) position. The all in gross salary (before tax) was just under 73k a year. The roster pattern was 5 on, 3 off / 5 on 2 off.

I have a friend who is a Captain in Ryanair who makes more than double that amount (according to him, not seen his contract or pay slips) on a 5/4 roster.

[directmisbi]

A320 TR for RYR pilots is bonded 15k/3y, no upfront payment, no salary deductions.

It translates to”Take the bait”, because in ryanair nothing ever comes for free.

[bereyb]

Vanhees!
If you read this thread. I received your private message, but couldn't reply because your inbox exceeded the quota. I've sent you my private phone nr. to discuss on whatsupp. So you should delete some messages to receive my message.

[juris]

Anyone here starting the TR on 11th of November?

[a350pilots]

Low cost of RYA. I think that says it all ....

[SOPS]

Low cost Ryanair. Just how low can this industry go before pilots are working for food stamps. It is simply becoming ridiculous. I’m so glad I’m out of it and enjoyed the good days.

[bulldog89]

Are contractors self-employed just like in the past or hired through an agency which then outsources them to Lauda?

In both cases I don't understand how could they bond a pilot not directly employed by the airline...a contractor can't be bonded to anyone by definition...

[juris]

Employed via agency, then contracted to Lauda. Fortunately no LTDs or other forms of self-employment like in RYR.

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

I’m struggling to see any details for the DUB contract if anyone can help? What is their minimum P1 hours for DEC?

Thanks

[stoneangel]

My thoughts exactly. When i lost my job back in March i didn't even look at Euroland: moved with the family to Asia for top dollar, and id travel. Work is still hard, though...

so funny here , to read negative comments.
But the truth is (what Booze does not even mention huh?) : to move in asia, first, you need experience. For a young pilot , Lauda seems great option. and a good steptone to move anywhere else then you want.
Many airlines, (emirates, asia, etc....) require at least hours on a plane more than 20t MTOM. To get this experience, the only way is to fly airbus or boeing at whatever cost.
Even if I was paid minimum wage on airbus I would run. Because that's the ONLY way to get experience and to bet for a better future.

Oh and by the way, I have been FI, really guys, you fly everyday, 5 to 6 hours, having 4 or 5 students each day, to repeat again and again the same boring stuff. You get really tired. No air conditioning on board, not enough room, small plane, and flying ****ty hours that ailrines do not even take into consideration. THIS is hard work compared to any low cost, which is a piece of cake when you had known harder job before. Conclusion, stop seeing the glass half empty, and get to work, stop complaining. Work and move then. It is like politics, don't expect anything from them, just be pro active and make your own path.
My 2 cents.

[Thepirate]

so funny here , to read negative comments.
But the truth is (what Booze does not even mention huh?) : to move in asia, first, you need experience. For a young pilot , Lauda seems great option. and a good steptone to move anywhere else then you want.
Many airlines, (emirates, asia, etc....) require at least hours on a plane more than 20t MTOM. To get this experience, the only way is to fly airbus or boeing at whatever cost.
Even if I was paid minimum wage on airbus I would run. Because that's the ONLY way to get experience and to bet for a better future.

Oh and by the way, I have been FI, really guys, you fly everyday, 5 to 6 hours, having 4 or 5 students each day, to repeat again and again the same boring stuff. You get really tired. No air conditioning on board, not enough room, small plane, and flying ****ty hours that ailrines do not even take into consideration. THIS is hard work compared to any low cost, which is a piece of cake when you had known harder job before. Conclusion, stop seeing the glass half empty, and get to work, stop complaining. Work and move then. It is like politics, don't expect anything from them, just be pro active and make your own path.
My 2 cents.

mate i think you were supposed to post that on interview/job/sponsorship thread. This is for experienced pilots not one’s looking for their first job.

Best of luck for the future and the whole growing up thing

[bulldog89]

so funny here , to read negative comments.
But the truth is (what Booze does not even mention huh?) : to move in asia, first, you need experience. For a young pilot , Lauda seems great option. and a good steptone to move anywhere else then you want.
Many airlines, (emirates, asia, etc....) require at least hours on a plane more than 20t MTOM. To get this experience, the only way is to fly airbus or boeing at whatever cost.
Even if I was paid minimum wage on airbus I would run. Because that's the ONLY way to get experience and to bet for a better future.

Oh and by the way, I have been FI, really guys, you fly everyday, 5 to 6 hours, having 4 or 5 students each day, to repeat again and again the same boring stuff. You get really tired. No air conditioning on board, not enough room, small plane, and flying ****ty hours that ailrines do not even take into consideration. THIS is hard work compared to any low cost, which is a piece of cake when you had known harder job before. Conclusion, stop seeing the glass half empty, and get to work, stop complaining. Work and move then. It is like politics, don't expect anything from them, just be pro active and make your own path.
My 2 cents.

I am a (not so much) young pilot and I totally disagree with your statement. Lauda is just another attempt to lower current and future T&C in Europe.

[stoneangel]

mate i think you were supposed to post that on interview/job/sponsorship thread. This is for experienced pilots not one’s looking for their first job.

Best of luck for the future and the whole growing up thing

sorry
ok thanks for the remark

[chinese3NMofftrack]

I’m struggling to see any details for the DUB contract if anyone can help? What is their minimum P1 hours for DEC?

Thanks

Minimum 3,500 hours total flying time
Minimum of 2,000 hours on a Multi-crew, Multi-engine Jet aircraft weighing in excess of 30,000kg MTOW with an established airline, cargo operator or Military transport.
Minimum of 800 hours Pilot in Command (PIC) on a Multi-crew, Multi-engine jet aircraft weighing in excess of 30,000kg. (No PIC hours on Turboprop aircraft shall be considered).

[rkk.pilot]

Did anyone receive any email for an interview in the last part of November? I applied at the end of July for the first officer position non Type-rated and I'm looking for some informations about the company and the assessment. Thank you!

[Alpine Flyer]

I am a (not so much) young pilot and I totally disagree with your statement. Lauda is just another attempt to lower current and future T&C in Europe.
Spot on. Laudamotion is Ryanairs attempt to undercut its own conditions. Why should you have any trust in a a management that does not honor the collective agreement of their airline, puny as it may be, but rather chooses to hire contract pilots to evade their own collective agreement?

[Citationcj2]

so funny here , to read negative comments.
But the truth is (what Booze does not even mention huh?) : to move in asia, first, you need experience. For a young pilot , Lauda seems great option. and a good steptone to move anywhere else then you want.
Many airlines, (emirates, asia, etc....) require at least hours on a plane more than 20t MTOM. To get this experience, the only way is to fly airbus or boeing at whatever cost.
Even if I was paid minimum wage on airbus I would run. Because that's the ONLY way to get experience and to bet for a better future.

Oh and by the way, I have been FI, really guys, you fly everyday, 5 to 6 hours, having 4 or 5 students each day, to repeat again and again the same boring stuff. You get really tired. No air conditioning on board, not enough room, small plane, and flying ****ty hours that ailrines do not even take into consideration. THIS is hard work compared to any low cost, which is a piece of cake when you had known harder job before. Conclusion, stop seeing the glass half empty, and get to work, stop complaining. Work and move then. It is like politics, don't expect anything from them, just be pro active and make your own path.
My 2 cents.
They are not negative comments but the truth. You complain FI job isnt easy and how the airline job is a piece of cake.
Unfortunately , it is because of people like you and the statement you just gave that airlines are able to exploit the pilots for lower conditions.

Seeing Ryanair or Lauda, or any Low cost operator as a gateway airline is just pure wrong. There shouldn’t be any difference. But there is, because people are willing to do anything to get that first job, and possibly fly for free ( judging by previous Pay to fly schemes when there was no jobs)

But from my experience, I see people like you that join, so so enthusiastic , positive, but then soon after they realise this is not what they hoped it was, so they soon turn to a negative side.. I see it every day of the week.. Endless moaning, but hey, they didnt think that when they signed up.. All they wanted to fly
When you do join one of those airlines, you will see for yourself, and especially how much easier FI job was.... Its not all pressing buttons and sitting in A/C environment

[midnight cruiser]

But from my experience, I see people like you that join, so so enthusiastic , positive, but then soon after they realise this is not what they hoped it was, so they soon turn to a negative side.. I see it every day of the week.. Endless moaning, but hey, they didnt think that when they signed up.. All they wanted to fly
When you do join one of those airlines, you will see for yourself, and especially how much easier FI job was.... Its not all pressing buttons and sitting in A/C environment That's precisely my observation too - the ones who fast-track themselves by parting with large sums of cash or accepting unattractive initial terms, and/or see the airline role as a tradable commodity to be bought and sold; - an instagrammable experience ... are the ones who before long, are bitterly whingeing - the "I've paid all this money into this job, now where's my payback" philosophy - well it doesn't work like that. (Edit, well actually it kind of does if you want it to - fast-tracking yourself into an AB or Boeing, pocketing 1000+ hours and poking off somewhere else - fine, but don't bloody whine to all who'll listen that you've been cheated - you got what you "paid" for).

That said, I hear there are some factors with joining Lauda which are much better than Ryanair, such as much fewer up front, out of pocket costs such as uniform, licensing etc etc, and of course a much more desirable Airbus rating As for the rest of the lauda contract, I don't know, but Vienna or Palma would beat kaunas in my book.

[STEXUP]

Anyone as a actual figure for take home net pay in PMI for captains.The gross salary all included is advertised as 109.000 Euro for 70 hours month.
Anyone with real time experience?

[Citationcj2]

And you are seriously considering this kind of salary for a Captain flying an A320??

This is an insult in comparison to what captains make on the same type in the neighbouring airlines..

[yannko]

Yeah but you know... “it’s a great opportunity for low hours pilots, the network is great, people are friendly, you build experience, and it is shiny-pokky with digital dials man”, and “it is just for couple of years till a career move”, and million over excuses... Anyway I guess it is a waste of time to try to convince people already going there.

[STEXUP]

And you are seriously considering this kind of salary for a Captain flying an A320??

This is an insult in comparison to what captains make on the same type in the neighbouring airlines..


I' m not considering anything just curious to know how much that equates in terms of net salary in Spain. Anyone?

[7574ever]

Depends on many factors, also on where you actually pay your taxes, but in Spain with that sort of salary you'd be looking at around 40% tax, leaving you with around 65K net.

[STEXUP]

The figure I' m given is the total of basic and flight pay for 70 hours . Is flight pay taxed as basic salary is ?

[Newcomer2]

Even if you're based in Spain Lauda will make you pay your taxes in Austria (where the tax rate is even higher, at 50%)

[STEXUP]

No..not anymore..tax are paid in Spain..and the contract is now Spanish..

[Newcomer2]

Ok, then it's very new, because 1 month ago they assured me I would be paying taxes in Austria even with a Spanish base.
However the salary is still way too low...

[MaverickPrime]

The contract I seen said €109k at 850hrs/year.

[randon]

Anyone could shed a light on why they require a European Drivers License "B" for the captains position?

Thanks!

[flyfan]

That's standard over here, nothing to do with LDM. I don't know why they write it in there, but it's really nothing unusual in job ads in Austria.

[Maxymus3]

to be able to get to the airport also on a short notice i guess. Same in Germany. Unfortunately no crew shuttle services like in india over here.

[elporco]

Figures on ppjn.com are accurate. Income taxes in Austria, social security in Spain (for PMI base). Plan on max 70 hours a month...much less in PMI in the winter.

[Denti]

Anyone could shed a light on why they require a European Drivers License "B" for the captains position?

Thanks!
Probably so you can transport your whole crew in a rental car to their next duty. Saves on paying taxi-drivers to do the job...

[Maxymus3]

Can someone tell how long it took from having applied to a FO/CA position until Lauda first got in touch with you? I can't find any information regarding the recruitment process.

[Hogg]

Maximilian Veit
Theres info on the process in the Ryanair website under Careers and Lauda!

[Maxymus3]

That i know, yet nothing about a timeline. I wonder how long it takes for them to get in touch after receiving the application - maybe someone gained some experience worth sharing

[dirk85]

I know a friend, rated, that applied. Got a reply on the same day, a confirmed assessment for the week after and one day after the assessment was asked if he was ready to start the occ 5 days later.
My friend said no, and was totally unimpressed with the professionalism of the whole thing, from the beginning.
Some other people I know applied, but never got an assessment date.

[BoeingLudo737]

You seem to know everything

[triple_2]

Guys really, I rarely post here but wanted to say that this is the worst contract I’ve seen in my 13 years in aviation. I did an assessment there and got a job offer, so finally I got to see the actual contract. It’s less money than advertised, less leave than advertised, they can send you wherever whenever without paying you any compensation. You are called a mobile transport worker in the contract. It says that you’re responsible for being current and so on, it’s a piece of crap. When I said that they wanted to explain me the contract, they said everything will be not like this blablabla. In the end you sign that paper giving them the right to do whatever they want with you.

I made some phonecalls with people working there, everybody in Lauda tries to find another job.

Why I’m writing this: guys we have to unite and not accept this. Companies are doing this to us because we let them. We have to stand up and say no. This job can be the most beautiful job in the world but it’s getting less every day. It’s time we do something.

[sonicbum]

You seem to know everything

Maybe he knows enough to speak up ?

[Maxymus3]

Sounds terrifying frankly. My issue: i'm an Indian national with the unrestricted right to work and live in Europe (married to a german), moved to Germany in Apr. i'm an A320 (500h) and Q400 (2000h) pilot with a current A320 TR/IR, Class I Medical etc. Just got ahold of my EASA licence and applied everywhere where i possibly could apply. I honestly have to take what i can get...and so far it doesnt seem well. I frankly would even take laude, beggers cant be choosers.

[Maxymus3]

I know a friend, rated, that applied. Got a reply on the same day, a confirmed assessment for the week after and one day after the assessment was asked if he was ready to start the occ 5 days later.
My friend said no, and was totally unimpressed with the professionism of the whole thing, from the beginning.
Some other people I know applied, but never got an assessment date.
That happend recently or after lauda got acquired by Ryanair?

[733driver]

Good friend of mine works there as a CPT. Experienced guy. Good guy. Wants to get out as soon as he can. Worst company he has ever worked for, he says. And getting worse by the day, according to him.

[dirk85]

That happend recently or after lauda got acquired by Ryanair?

The assessment was last week, and the occ was starting this monday.

[BluSdUp]

Can anyone give us an update on the A320 market for pilots please.
I am more up to date on the 737 side of things. ( Stagnant or negative at the moment until Max and Corona is sorted.!?)

I would imagine there is a bright future for any A320 rated pilot out there, but does the recruitment reflect this.
The terms and conditions quoted here suggests the opposite, me thinks

[safelife]

That happend recently or after lauda got acquired by Ryanair?

Condor are recruiting massively, being A320 type rated you're almost hired.

[antoniomg]

Condor are recruiting massively, being A320 type rated you're almost hired.
German B2 mandatory...

[Maxymus3]

Condor are recruiting massively, being A320 type rated you're almost hired.
Applied 2 1/2 weeks ago via career.aero, meeting all their requirements but no reaction yet by condor.
I keep you posted in case anything happens.

[Thepirate]

Out of interest how do these conditions compare to wizz air?
ryanair and co. are brutal employers but as we saw last year they are not invulnerable to industrial action.
at the end of the day we have them by the balls, planes don’t fly if we don’t fly them. All it takes is a bit of solidarity.
We can only blame ourselves for these conditions, when they are accepted by people (not judging you have to pay the bills) and by colleges in sister airlines (how safe do you think your job is when someone is doing the same job cheaper) it becomes the market rate.

time for european unions to show some leadership for their members and work together

[BoeingLudo737]

Maybe he knows enough to speak up ?

Is anyone talking to you?

[Whitemonk Returns]

Obviously only of use to those who want to be UK based but Jet2 are recruiting A320 crew and offer vastly superior terms than these crooks for half the work, £120-130 k for a Captain for 500 hrs a year (higher level includes the bonus that is applicable in the second year)

[Maxymus3]

Obviously only of use to those who want to be UK based but Jet2 are recruiting A320 crew and offer vastly superior terms than these crooks for half the work, £120-130 k for a Captain for 500 hrs a year (higher level includes the bonus that is applicable in the second year)
Unfortunately A321, not A320. Anyway they don't provide any information about their requirements despite "min. 500 hrs flown on A321".

[Whitemonk Returns]

An A321 type rating is the same as an A320 one, and in plain English on the website it states 1000 hrs on type for Captain and 500 for FO...

[randon]

I've received a brochure informing a potential €128k total remuneration for a 8 months contract for captains. It doesn't seem to be bad. Is it an improvement in T/C or there is something I can't see?

[safelife]

Applied 2 1/2 weeks ago via career.aero, meeting all their requirements but no reaction yet by condor.
I keep you posted in case anything happens.

Checked that one for you and got the info that interpersonal has put all recruitment for Condor on hold, except those already invited.
Reason given is they won't be recruiting for them in the future, as LOT is going to do that from Warszaw.

[Maxymus3]

Checked that one for you and got the info that interpersonal has put all recruitment for Condor on hold, except those already invited.
Reason given is they won't be recruiting for them in the future, as LOT is going to do that from Warszaw.
Thanks for the intel safelie - thats quite unfortunate. I got in touch with interpersonal to get an update regarding the current status of the application, and what they recommend to do in case they already have stopped recruiting for condor. As far as i'm concerned interpersonal is still the single point of contact when it comes to German based Condor vacancies. So whom to contact instead? Hmm

[triple_2]

I've received a brochure informing a potential €128k total remuneration for a 8 months contract for captains. It doesn't seem to be bad. Is it an improvement in T/C or there is something I can't see?


this is exactly what they’re doing, they make brochures but it’s not what will be in your contract, I just experienced this.

[Jabulani]

Just be aware that Interpersonal does not look at your personal result in the one and only test they have. They just look at the avarage result of the last 1000 persons they tested (regardless if FO or CPT) and then they compare it with your result. If you are below the avarage you failed the test.

[booze]

It's an 'effin joke: avg. Capt net would work out around 3.5k pm... Wizz Fo-s make more than that.

[cumulustratus]

this is exactly what they’re doing, they make brochures but it’s not what will be in your contract, I just experienced this.

Is this outfit linked to the outfit that publicly claimed its captains earned 250k€ during a recent industrial dispute, when in reality few captains saw even half of that salary? Or am I thinking of a different low cost group?

[Full_blast]

Is this outfit linked to the outfit that publicly claimed its captains earned 250k€ during a recent industrial dispute, when in reality few captains saw even half of that salary? Or am I thinking of a different low cost group?

Indeed!

And you’ll be surprised to hear how many people believed it!

[Maxymus3]

Checked that one for you and got the info that interpersonal has put all recruitment for Condor on hold, except those already invited.
Reason given is they won't be recruiting for them in the future, as LOT is going to do that from Warszaw.
Just got the PFO from Interpersonal regarding condor :( And i dont really know why.

[Maxymus3]

Has anybody heard anything from Lauda recently?

[booze]

Yes. Apparently they want to charge candidates for the assessment in the future. I guess that step has to be in place before the "bring-your-own-lube" assessments are about the start.

[flyzed]

Are You in AirItaly? Maybe try to ask in Milano MXP Novotel on tuesday 24th february 2020, there is an Ryanair group Pilot roadshow dedicated to AirItaly Pilots, A330, A320, B737.

[Banana Joe]

Yes. Apparently they want to charge candidates for the assessment in the future. I guess that step has to be in place before the "bring-your-own-lube" assessments are about the start.
Also for Direct Entries?

[BoeingLudo737]

Yes. Apparently they want to charge candidates for the assessment in the future. I guess that step has to be in place before the "bring-your-own-lube" assessments are about the start.

Really? Who told you that?

[sonicbum]

Must be a real treat to work for those guys.

[BoeingLudo737]

Well you work for a bankrupt company that drains taxpayer's money so I suppose you really shouldn't have anything to say

[Maxymus3]

Checked that one for you and got the info that interpersonal has put all recruitment for Condor on hold, except those already invited.
Reason given is they won't be recruiting for them in the future, as LOT is going to do that from Warszaw.

talked to interpersonal today. They are actively recruiting for condor again since this week. It WAS on hold because of the struggle condor's been in. So if you're fluent in German and hold a a320 tr, go ahead!

[zerograv]

Well you work for a bankrupt company that drains taxpayer's money so I suppose you really shouldn't have anything to say

I'm under the impression that BrianAir likes to demand subsidies from local, or regional, governments in order to fly to, or setup camp (base), at some destinations.

My (certainly wrong) impression goes as far as that Brian, under the excuse that they will be greatly improving the local economy by flying there, or being present there, will demand all sorts of tax rebates, and subsidies, in order to accept being present locally.

Again, it most be my wrongly impression, that they will only be at some locations if they able to get some sort of unfair advantage in order to undermine local competition.

Naturally any subsidies or tax rebates will have to be done under some sort of "creative" accounting, so as to avoid what happened in France in the past, in which a regional airport as asked by the court to demand a refund of the subsidies that they had provided to BrianAir.

Therefore, which is the company that milks more the system ? BrianAir or sonicbum's company (whoever that happens to be) ?

[bulldog89]

I really don't want to defend BoeingLudo, but this time he's right.

There's a big difference between the two companies: Ryanair receives money thanks to commercial deals and it's highly profitable. Alitalia receives taxpayers money (300/400 millions € every 3 months) and loses tons of euros.

Even considering only the pure numbers AZ "milks" a lot more of FR.

[dirk85]

Consider the taxes and social contributions they have been avoiding to pay for years, and the number will still be far, but closer than you think

[Mike_Harrison]

Full_blast

These values can't be gross.
Impossible.

I have seen the Laudamotion pdf and the numbers aren't the same, I'm sorry.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Sadly they are correct, I have seen the CBA...

[Full_blast]

Mike_Harrison

I won’t answer with words because I don’t want to be rude. Therefore enjoy the attachments.



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/a0b200cf_cdfc_4291_b761_f58b7509f148_9c6ad4692778135c0a4d52e 92b795d81d3c5a56c.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/38e2aa29_a3ab_4b70_9606_e10721bfbab5_15d4de9507d35b2e05f6d32 4d22cdcbc2f4417f3.png

[BoeingLudo737]

Full_blast

That's a really old PDF

[austrian71]

How "cheap" you have to be to accept these terms & conditions - think about it !

[FlightDetent]

Out of curiosity, how much did your first flying job pay at year 2? The document above adds up to 4800 EUR/m gross with 35 days of annual leave.

[sonicbum]

Does the TRI allowance mean You get 200 quids gross extra (120 net or so?) per day flying 4 sectors with a 200 hours cadet ?
Hilarious.

[micky771]

crj_z2

In this contract there aren’t perdiem?

[Full_blast]

That's a really old PDF

1- September 2019. So no, it’s not really old;
2- It seems you have more updated terms and conditions so please share them with us instead of keeping them for yourself;
3- There is no benefit in reading your words if you can’t support them with evidence.


Does the TRI allowance mean You get 200 quids gross extra (120 net or so?) per day flying 4 sectors with a 200 hours cadet ?
Hilarious.

Nope. You get 200€ gross per instruction day given in the sim.
In Ryanair for flying 4 sectors with a 200h cadet there is a monthly LTC allowance which is around 1000€ gross/month. I have no knowledge of the monthly allowance for a line training captain in Laudamotion, but considering that everything in Laudamotion is worse than Ryanair, I think we can all make our conclusions :yuk:

​​​​​​​

[bairni]

what is the situation outside Austria after the grounding of Lauda?

in Austria Lauda has applied for "corona short-time work" but the union is blocking the application at the moment. (according a letter signed by all Lauda Pilots addressed to Austrian Politicians)

[gearlever]

NO.
The letter is neither signed (anonymous) nor by "all Lauda Pilots"... It may be fake as well.

Anonymous letter (https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail/offener-brief-der-piloten-der-fluggesellschaft-lauda/)

[Alpine Flyer]

Probably written by management.....

Austrian government short-time-work subsidies require union and works council approval and Laudamotion insists (and is trying to prove in court) that their works council was elected contrary to statutory provisions and is therefore a legal non-entity. Having asked employees to elect several separate works councils (which is certainly illegal) doesn't help either.

Laudamotion management (a.k.a. MOL's puppets) would just need to acknowledge that their lawsuit against the works council is baseless, retract it and start talking to them to get an agreement.

[PilotLZ]

Can anyone shed some light on what's going on with the Vienna base now? Looks like it will continue to exist, providing wet lease capacity to Ryanair. Will that reverse the previously announced job losses at least to some extent?

[Full_blast]

https://stories.eurocockpit.be/when-fear-pressure-become-your-daily-companion/index.html

[PilotLZ]

Does that mean no job losses so far?

[flyfan]

There will be some, especially ground staff working at Vienna HQ but als crew who didn't sign the new contract, which is even worse than what they had before.

[dirk85]

It was already one of the worst contracts in Europe, was there really any need to make it any worse?
There is no end to corporate greed

[skyboy83]

Anyone get called for an assessment last week? I am looking forward to see the new covid terms and conditions in this company.

[dirk85]

They were the worst in the industry before, imagine now

[Jurow]

Hi everyone, looking for some bits of info concerning the t&cs for f/o position.
- What's the current hiring trend?
- Any chance to be based in Vienna?
Thanks!

[FlightDetent]

Sign up for the RYR Linked-In and get the Pilot Recruitment webinars directly.

The last one was awkward, which was unusual because the gentleman from Dublin (Collin?) does a stellar job on those normally.