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View Full Version : CASA temporarily suspends all Boeing 737 MAX operations to/from Australia


markfelt
12th Mar 2019, 09:08
CASA’s CEO and Director of Aviation Safety, Shane Carmody, said that in light of the two recent fatal accidents, the temporary suspension of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations was in the best interests of safety

www.casa.gov.au/media-release/boeing-737-max-operations-temporarily-suspended (https://www.casa.gov.au/media-release/boeing-737-max-operations-temporarily-suspended)

galdian
12th Mar 2019, 09:35
Working O/S so not up with local stuff - does anyone currently operate MAX into/out of OZ?

None within OZ surely - but happy to be corrected.

Cheers.

downdata
12th Mar 2019, 09:38
And right after “Virgin Pilots” leaping to defend the type...

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/virgin-australia-pilots-leap-defence-737-max/

Pavement
12th Mar 2019, 09:39
Working O/S so not up with local stuff - does anyone currently operate MAX into/out of OZ?

None within OZ surely - but happy to be corrected.

Cheers.

Fiji and Silkair. No one internally.

compressor stall
12th Mar 2019, 09:44
Boeing has delivered more than 10,000 737 aircraft since it first flew in 1967,

Not really something to crow about, methinks.

PoppaJo
12th Mar 2019, 09:49
DQ-FAB will be collecting cobwebs at YSSY it seems.

Not sure if a NG can make Cairns and back but they often send them to Darwin.

Snakecharma
12th Mar 2019, 09:57
And right after “Virgin Pilots” leaping to defend the type...


please don’t tar all Virgin pilots with that particular brush

Capt Fathom
12th Mar 2019, 10:01
CASA temporarily suspends all Boeing 737 MAX operations to/from Australia

Wow! CASA really waving the big stick! :rolleyes:

Rated De
12th Mar 2019, 10:09
CASA temporarily suspends all Boeing 737 MAX operations to/from Australia

Wow! CASA really waving the big stick! :rolleyes:

Leading from the front....
Although the real front is likely many miles ahead of them

machtuk
12th Mar 2019, 10:21
For once CASA are doing the right thing. There's obviously a problem with this version of the old 737 & perhaps the less trained/experienced drivers are unable to handle the fault when it occurs?
Airbus have had their fair share of similar issues so will be interesting to see how Boeing get out of this one unscathed cause Airbus sure has coped a lot of flak over the years!
RIP to the many that lost their lives in such a dreadful tragedy:-(

downdata
12th Mar 2019, 11:22
please don’t tar all Virgin pilots with that particular brush

Hence the doible quotation. Geoffrey Thomas on the other hand has no qualms representating the entire VA pilot base.

chimbu warrior
12th Mar 2019, 12:01
I may be mistaken, but don't Malindo also operate a Max to Australia?

Maybe CASA forgot about them........

ozziekiwi
12th Mar 2019, 19:25
Working O/S so not up with local stuff - does anyone currently operate MAX into/out of OZ?

None within OZ surely - but happy to be corrected.

Cheers.

NZ still have them arriving

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/384523/fiji-air-continues-to-fly-max-8s-into-nz

Next one due in tomorrow

Cheers

Ozziekiwi

Colonel_Klink
12th Mar 2019, 22:42
please don’t tar all Virgin pilots with that particular brush

Well it certainly doesn’t help when the VIPA president comes out and states that ‘VIPA (representing Virgin Group Pilots) continues to have the utmost confidence in the Boeing 737 and the rigorous training that Virgin Australia provides its pilots.”

The VIPA President then goes on to say “We look forward to its introduction at Virgin Australia as it brings outstanding commercial advantages to the airline and enhanced customer appeal”.

What about the considerable chance that there is an issue with the aircraft that has resulted in the deaths of 300 people? That doesn’t seem to matter because the aircraft brings commercial advantage? Crazy stuff.

The stupidity of these comments are confounded by the fact that the Chinese, Indonesian, Singaporean, UK CAA, CASA and other regulators have banned the aircraft from operating in their jurisdictions. But it’s not just the regulators that are concerned - the union representing pilots working for Aerolíneas Argentinaa has also banned its Pilots from operating Max aircraft.

The comments above from the VIPA President are obviously from the leader of a Union who is grossly out of touch with the industry. If the leader of the union is so out of touch - that is probably a reflection on the union as a whole.

ElZilcho
12th Mar 2019, 23:37
NZ now Grounding them also. Believe Fiji are the only ones operating them here.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12212260

Ken Borough
13th Mar 2019, 01:27
I think the Colonel is on the money! Do VIPA and Virgin have the same spin doctor?

empire4
13th Mar 2019, 01:37
I somewhat doubt the same outcome would occur if QF had 70 or so MAX aircraft. I find it amusing that without any actual evidence of any aircraft defect, and only a bit of radar data that also represents a stall, the panic button was pressed by the sheep after what will nearly certainly be a China - US trade war decision. I seriously hope the investigation is thorough. I'd have a nice little chuckle if the end result is pilot error and nothing to do with the aircraft.

777Nine
13th Mar 2019, 02:02
I somewhat doubt the same outcome would occur if QF had 70 or so MAX aircraft. I find it amusing that without any actual evidence of any aircraft defect, and only a bit of radar data that also represents a stall, the panic button was pressed by the sheep after what will nearly certainly be a China - US trade war decision. I seriously hope the investigation is thorough. I'd have a nice little chuckle if the end result is pilot error and nothing to do with the aircraft.

Couldn't agree more. At the moment everything is just speculation and we have no reports to base any conclusion, so I am on the fence with this one. The saddest thing in all of this as always is the unecessary loss of human life.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't become politicised and it is investigated for what it is; an aircraft accident with the loss of life that had a cause leading to an outcome.

Dee Vee
13th Mar 2019, 02:42
I find it amusing that without any actual evidence of any aircraft defect, and only a bit of radar data that also represents a stall, the panic button was pressed

Seriously, no evidence???

Please explain the 2 aircraft crashes in short succession, a new Boeing cost savings design, cobbled onto an older design to avoid going through costly re-approvals, with Boeing's proven "schedule before safety" track record, and a new MCAS system that Boeing tried to hide, prior to these issues, that steers the aircraft downwards with no indication or notification.

Only the FAA/Boeing/USA could continue to deny there is an issue to save face, and ward off mass defections to Airbus.

At least other countries around the world are taking their safety obligations seriously and grounding it.

This just screams B787 all over again. The future whistle-blower exposes by frustrated engineers overruled by bean-counters and project managers in the future will be very interesting indeed.

I'd have a nice little chuckle if the end result is pilot error and nothing to do with the aircraft.

Seems Boeing are already trying this on, by declaring the procedures to disable this "undisclosed" system behavior are documented somewhere deep within their manuals, but it seems they "forgot" to tell anybody about this until after the crashes in typical CYA mode.

Eddie Dean
13th Mar 2019, 02:44
Would have a comment but won't as it would be considered racial

Beer Baron
13th Mar 2019, 02:54
steers the aircraft downwards with no indication or notification.
Have you flown a 737? There is the little issue of the circular-saw/trim-wheel whirring away beside your knee to let you know something is amiss.
the procedures to disable this "undisclosed" system behavior are documented somewhere deep within their manuals, but it seems they "forgot" to tell anybody about this
Isn’t the procedure to disable the system a memory item checklist, ‘Stab Trim Runaway’? Hardly a secret.

morno
13th Mar 2019, 03:58
Yes there is little to go on just yet, but what they do have seems very similar to the Lion Air accident.

Does anyone here have any MAX experience? How do we know that Boeing haven’t changed a system design that is now causing a problem that not even they know about?

Rudder hardovers ring a bell?

Alpha Whiskey Bravo
13th Mar 2019, 04:18
Will Fiji Airways just leave the Jet in Sydney, or have they asked for a Permit to fly it home?

Dee Vee
13th Mar 2019, 05:09
Will Fiji Airways just leave the Jet in Sydney, or have they asked for a Permit to fly it home?

looks like it already flew back this morning, left at 6.44am.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1144x698/bsqlsdk_ae9a540b84d1ac1c011fe77050051a7ef5419624.jpg

Gnadenburg
13th Mar 2019, 05:10
Would have a comment but won't as it would be considered racial

Good idea Eddie.

A CRM course I did in the Middle East comes to mind. Over and over agin we did the Kegworth crash. Anyways, this really cool Nigerian captain who stands about 7 feet, stood up and matter of factly says, if the crew was black we wouldn't have to sit through all these excuses for why the jet crashed. It would just be labelled pilot error. Funny thing ever at a CRM course. Everyone in stitches- white, black, brown and the colours of the rainbow.

Buster Hyman
13th Mar 2019, 05:21
I'd have a nice little chuckle if the end result is pilot error and nothing to do with the aircraft.
Hilarious isn't it! All those deaths.....:hmm:

Eddie Dean
13th Mar 2019, 06:02
Good idea Eddie.

A CRM course I did in the Middle East comes to mind. Over and over agin we did the Kegworth crash. Anyways, this really cool Nigerian captain who stands about 7 feet, stood up and matter of factly says, if the crew was black we wouldn't have to sit through all these excuses for why the jet crashed. It would just be labelled pilot error. Funny thing ever at a CRM course. Everyone in stitches- white, black, brown and the colours of the rainbow.Good one mate, the root cause in the Kegworth crash was ..... Pilot Error.

Gnadenburg
13th Mar 2019, 06:15
Yep and that was his point . We sat through hours and hours of explanations, pointers and tips as if it were a miracle it happened to a white crew . Had of been a black crew no need to bother with a comprehensive CRM course . Pilot error , moving along .

Cultures, not race , affect flight deck performance.

The Aussie bogan for instance , prevalent in the low cost arena, can be a real shocker in on the flight deck .😀

Eddie Dean
13th Mar 2019, 06:19
Yep and that was his point . We sat through hours and hours of explanations, pointers and tips as if it were a miracle it happened to a white crew . Had of been a black crew no need to bother with a comprehensive CRM course . Pilot error , moving along .

Cultures, not race , affect flight deck performance.

The Aussie bogan for instance , prevalent in the low cost arena, can be a real shocker in on the flight deck .😀I would suggest both you and the 7ft brother missed the point of the CRM. Not withstanding that, you are correct that it is a culture issue and hopefully will be discussed further.

4 Holer
13th Mar 2019, 06:31
Eddie,

I'll comment for you. Two have crashed one in Indonesia and one in Dark Africa both places are third world countries and crash aircraft on a regular basis.

Yanks are still flying them and don't get scared so easily, but yanks invented the aircraft and can fly stick and rudder in any case.

So the rest of the countries can sit and wring their hands rocking back and forward in a regular motion. How do the clowns now unground them ? " Oh a software update and a new pilot brief off you go " Follow the FAA and Manufacturer don't act with emotion deal with facts.

Would suit EU to ground anything not Airbus........

maggot
13th Mar 2019, 06:47
Eddie,

I'll comment for you. Two have crashed one in Indonesia and one in Dark Africa both places are third world countries and crash aircraft on a regular basis.

Yanks are still flying them and don't get scared so easily, but yanks invented the aircraft and can fly stick and rudder in any case.

So the rest of the countries can sit and wring their hands rocking back and forward in a regular motion. How do the clowns now unground them ? " Oh a software update and a new pilot brief off you go " Follow the FAA and Manufacturer don't act with emotion deal with facts.

Would suit EU to ground anything not Airbus........

This is the most excellent self assurance that keeps us flying in the dark ages in shit heap 737s

Ya better I'm sure

Sunfish
13th Mar 2019, 07:41
Read the effing Boeing SB before opening your yaps. It says that once you have realized you have one or more alerts and nose down trimming behaviour, restrain the trim wheel by hand then turn the bloody thing off and trim manually. What could be simpler than that?

Bend alot
13th Mar 2019, 07:51
Eddie,

I'll comment for you. Two have crashed one in Indonesia and one in Dark Africa both places are third world countries and crash aircraft on a regular basis.

Yanks are still flying them and don't get scared so easily, but yanks invented the aircraft and can fly stick and rudder in any case.

So the rest of the countries can sit and wring their hands rocking back and forward in a regular motion. How do the clowns now unground them ? " Oh a software update and a new pilot brief off you go " Follow the FAA and Manufacturer don't act with emotion deal with facts.

Would suit EU to ground anything not Airbus........

There must be hundred's of old (very old) B737,s aircraft flying in Dark Africa Indonesia and other "third world" countries and for many years - many years to eat away at the aircraft's safety standard by poor maintenance and parts.

So new ones crashing seems strange.

So one would expect they last a few year longer.Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes

The following are significant events (http://www.airsafe.com/events/define.htm) involving the airline or its subsidiares. The numbered events are those involving at least one airline passenger death where the aircraft flight had a direct or indirect role, and where at least one of the dead passengers was not a stowaway, hijacker, or saboteur. Only events since 1970 are included.

10 September 1972; Ethiopian Airlines Douglas DC3; ET-ABQ; en route to Gondar, Ethiopia:

15 September 1988; Ethiopian Airlines 737-200; ET-AJA; flight 604; Bahar Dar, Ethiopia: Bird strike ingested into engines.

12 March 1993; Ethiopian Airlines ATR 42-300; Dire Dawa, Ethiopia: Hijackers.

23 November 1996; Ethiopian Airlines 767-200ER; near Moroni, Comoros Islands: Hijackers.

25 January 2010; Ethiopian Airlines 737-800; Flight 409; near Beirut, Lebanon: ?

12 July 2013; Ethiopian Airlines 787-8; ET-AOP; flight 1354; London Heathrow Airport: ELT caught fire on ground.

10 March 2019; Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX 8; ET-AVJ; flight ET302; near Ejere, Ethiopia:?

zanthrus
13th Mar 2019, 08:13
Would have a comment but won't as it would be considered racial

I will then. “You can teach monkeys to fly better than that!”

maggot
13th Mar 2019, 08:50
Read the effing Boeing SB before opening your yaps. It says that once you have realized you have one or more alerts and nose down trimming behaviour, restrain the trim wheel by hand then turn the bloody thing off and trim manually. What could be simpler than that?
Manually holding a mechanised trim wheel with stick shaker going nuts, amongst other things, at 1000'
Sure it's a simple act and that's why we have a qrh full of stuff like that but something like this shouldn't be occurring with a single failure point

Australopithecus
13th Mar 2019, 08:59
As I understand the MCAS behaviour it trims in a ten second movement then stops for five seconds or whenever normal electric trim is selected on the control column trim switches.

The runaway stabiliser non normal condition statement reads:

Uncommanded stabilizer​ trim movement occurs CONTINUOUSLY.

That's how 737 pilots have been taught to recognise and correct a runaway stab. I have had one in a -300 and, while comparatively benign, it was not obvious what was going on with the stab until removing electric power per the checklist memory step. (It didn’t help)

I cannot agree with posters here who think it a simple matter for a crew to recognise the full scope of a problem when airspeed reliability is in doubt and the stick shaker is vibrating constantly. And an undocumented* feature is reacting to a bad sensor by doing its best to prevent a stall by nose-diving into the planet.

The stabiliser, while a secondary control, is very powerful-more so than the elevator. While fighting a grossly out-of-trim stab
might sound doable, but it may be possible in an acme screw jack design to bind the nut on the shaft and lock the stab in position until air loads can be relieved. The 737 is from that era of design.

*undocumented until after Lion of course, but how much sim training on inadvertent MCAS activation has been accomplished in the last five months.

All of this assumes facts not currently in evidence...it may have been something completely unrelated.

oh...4Holer? I have a US ATPL that I got in a box of Corn Flakes. I can’t say that its made me a better pilot but I'll take your word for it.

Derfred
13th Mar 2019, 09:21
“IF” Flightradar24 data is to be believed, this doesn’t sound like an MCAS issue. The aircraft got to 250kts by 600’ and 380kts by 800’ (heights above airfield).

This really only indicates a pitch control problem or a pilot problem. They didn’t have a thrust problem.

Now, MCAS is not active with flaps extended - Lion Air did not have an MCAS issue until they retracted flaps. We don’t know whether Ethiopian retracted the flaps, of course, but it certainly appears that they were not flying normally prior to 500’, and one would normally have flaps out at that point (unless one had a pilot problem).

So until FDR data is analysed, this accident initally appears unrelated to Lion Air.

The F24 data I refer to is published in the main thread on R&N.

The other thing of note that happened to Lion Air was nuisance stick shaker from rotation. But I can’t fathom that this flight profile could result from a simple AOA failure causing nuisance stick shaker - even with a below average pilot. And that nuisance stick shaker presumably was not just a MAX related issue - the NG presumably suffers the same nuisance stick shaker potential with a faulty AOA. How many nuisance stick shakers on rotate have we heard of in NG’s? I also note that the Captain was a new Captain, but he apparently had 8000 hours (don’t know what type).

So the grounding to me sounds like overkill.

Yes, I think Boeing should fix the MCAS AOA input redundancy in the MAX. Well-trained pilots should be able to deal with that issue, but in this day and age we simply need to accept that not all pilots globally are well-trained, and in this day and age a new aircraft should not exhibit such unnecessary lack of redundancy. The grounding, even if overkill, will hopefully get the wheels moving pretty quickly in both Boeing and the FAA for an improvement to MAX MCAS redundancy.

But just to consider Sunfish’s “politics” argument: I think I read somewhere that Boeing would have implemented a software fix to MCAS by now if it wasn’t for the US government shutdown crippling the FAA’s ability to certify Boeing’s proposed “fix”, which was in turn caused by internal US politics over who should pay for a wall to stop the Mexicans ruining their country. So we can blame the Mexicans for the recent crash in Africa, to which CASA has responded by simply jumping on a global bandwagon simply to screw the Fijians, all the while allowing the Indonesian low cost carriers to continue flying here. Wow, our regulator has balls. Got it.

maggot
13th Mar 2019, 10:16
Excellent spray indeed! :D

KRUSTY 34
13th Mar 2019, 13:20
Well it certainly doesn’t help when the VIPA president comes out and states that ‘VIPA (representing Virgin Group Pilots) continues to have the utmost confidence in the Boeing 737 and the rigorous training that Virgin Australia provides its pilots.”

The VIPA President then goes on to say “We look forward to its introduction at Virgin Australia as it brings outstanding commercial advantages to the airline and enhanced customer appeal”.

What about the considerable chance that there is an issue with the aircraft that has resulted in the deaths of 300 people? That doesn’t seem to matter because the aircraft brings commercial advantage? Crazy stuff.

The stupidity of these comments are confounded by the fact that the Chinese, Indonesian, Singaporean, UK CAA, CASA and other regulators have banned the aircraft from operating in their jurisdictions. But it’s not just the regulators that are concerned - the union representing pilots working for Aerolíneas Argentinaa has also banned its Pilots from operating Max aircraft.

The comments above from the VIPA President are obviously from the leader of a Union who is grossly out of touch with the industry. If the leader of the union is so out of touch - that is probably a reflection on the union as a whole.

Yup! So much for VIPA.

compressor stall
13th Mar 2019, 19:52
RSo they’re now grounded in the US and Canada. Reports that the FAA have analysed initial data from the crash.

The [FAA] made this decision as a result of the data gathering process and new evidence collected at the site and analyzed today. This evidence, together with newly refined satellite data available to FAA this morning, led to this decision.” Washington Post.

machtuk
13th Mar 2019, 22:11
This will get very interesting. Boeing had no choice but to ground the type to be responsible.
Hope they get to the bottom of the problem soon to restore confidence in the type..

wishiwasupthere
13th Mar 2019, 22:32
Yanks are still flying them and don't get scared so easily, but yanks invented the aircraft and can fly stick and rudder in any case.

And then...

FAA is ordering the temporary grounding of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft (https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Emergency_Order.pdf) (PDF)operated by U.S. airlines or in U.S. territory.

Whats that saying about opening your mouth and confirming to people you’re a fool?

Dee Vee
13th Mar 2019, 22:49
This will get very interesting. Boeing had no choice but to ground the type to be responsible.


Indeed it will, no doubt Boeing/FAA's decision will lead to (preparation of/or) a few lawsuits/secret settlements and share price drops!

Presumably the reason they waited so long to all but admit fault.

Marcellus
14th Mar 2019, 00:47
Well, there are a lot of people on this thread with egg on their faces after the decision to ground the worldwide MAX fleet. Probably none more so than this particular imbecile

Yesterday, the Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA), president Captain John Lyons (ret) said: “VIPA continues to have the utmost confidence in the Boeing 737 and the rigorous training that Virgin Australia provides its pilots.”

“We look forward to its introduction at Virgin Australia as it brings outstanding commercial advantages to the airline and enhanced customer appeal,” said Captain Lyon

Anyone paying money to this fool for representation deserves the pigswill he delivers.

porch monkey
14th Mar 2019, 00:56
Dear Downdata, Ken, and the Colonel, You do all realise that there are 2 unions at Virgin, don't you? And VIPA has the least representation at Virgin? Snake is right, don't presume that JL speaks for anyone but himself.

Turnleft080
14th Mar 2019, 01:05
It just so happens Virgin delayed the Max for a year. If they didn't, the Max would of been around in Virgin colours from Nov 18.
In hindsight what a good decision that was.

porch monkey
14th Mar 2019, 01:23
Yeah, maybe the messiah was a whole lot smarter than some people think!!!!! (SARCASM)

Berealgetreal
14th Mar 2019, 02:26
What a strange media statement from a union.

LeadSled
14th Mar 2019, 07:53
Well, there are a lot of people on this thread with egg on their faces after the decision to ground the worldwide MAX fleet. Probably none more so than this particular imbecile
Anyone paying money to this fool for representation deserves the pigswill he delivers.

Folks,
In defence of the Virgin pilots, does anybody really think a software glitch will not be well and truly sorted before Virging's first delivery is due in November.

Whatever the problem, nobody has a greater incentive than Boeing to re-certify the aircraft with whatever mods. ASAP.

In defence of Ethiopia, they should not be lumped in with most "darkest Africa" carriers, they have an excellent record, notwithstanding a previous post --- remove the losses from hi-jackings and other losses not strictly operational, and the picture is quite different.

Tootle pip!!

PS: I do not, and have not ever worked for Virgin. I just think the spew of anti-Virgin/VIPA posts reveals more about those posting than anything else --- and what is revealed is not very complimentary.

Marcellus
14th Mar 2019, 08:54
I just think the spew of anti-Virgin/VIPA posts reveals more about those posting tha anything else --- and what is revealed is not very complimentary.

Are you really that obtuse that you missed the implications and aspersions John Lyons was casting upon the pilots that have had the misfortune of flying and crashing one of these jets?

“VIPA continues to have the utmost confidence in the Boeing 737 [MAX] and the rigorous training that Virgin Australia provides its pilots.”

“We look forward to its introduction at Virgin Australia as it brings outstanding commercial advantages to the airline and enhanced customer appeal,” said Captain Lyon

He looks forward to its introduction. I personally find it distasteful that so soon after hundreds of people die in an accident that he is out there promoting the MAX, particularly given the serious questions regarding its airworthiness. I would suggest that the seriousness of those concerns has been vindicated given the worldwide grounding. I would also hazard a guess that a fair number of Virgin pilots are quietly waiting for the results of the investigations, and happy that they don’t have to put their rigorous training to the test.

I’ve never had a go at Virgin or the Virgin pilots, just the insensitive imbecile who heads up the boutique union for a handful of them, and his coterie of supporters.

Tootle plonk!!

LeadSled
14th Mar 2019, 14:24
Are you really that obtuse that you missed the implications and aspersions John Lyons was casting upon the pilots that have had the misfortune of flying and crashing one of these jets?

I’ve never had a go at Virgin or the Virgin pilots, just the insensitive imbecile who heads up the boutique union for a handful of them, and his coterie of supporters.
!!

No, I am not obtuse, you choose to read your own interpretations into Lyon's statement. And I don't believe he is either insensitive or an imbecile, either, speaking on behalf of his union body. That is entirely your personal view of the man. Given the fierceness of your feelings, I wonder: what is your backstory??

Tootle pip!! .

Vref+5
14th Mar 2019, 21:56
CASA didn’t ground the aircraft, the Minister did. Not enough technical knowledge in CASA to make a decision like that

Lead Balloon
14th Mar 2019, 22:29
That right there is funny.

There’s technical knowledge in the Minister’s office and the Minister has power to ‘ground’ aircraft.

Good one, Vref+5!

SYDnewby
14th Mar 2019, 23:11
BNE & MEL will see a lot of FJ A330s in place of 737 maxs.

In short term to NAN

ex BNE
2 x A330s a week(from 0) & the 2300ish red eye has become an 0210 departure & other Thu red eye has disappeared.

ex MEL
2 x A330s a week(from 0) & all flights depart 0025-0050

ex ADL
2 nonstops a week, seemed to have become 1, so presume pax booked on other will now fly ADL/NAN via BNE, SYD or MEL

ex SYD
presume, there might be some shuffling with new QF service & JQ

So with some flights out of BNE & MEL suddenly having over 100 extra seats, what will FJ do to try & fill them ? Offer more $800 return fares to USA ?

Judd
15th Mar 2019, 13:34
Manually holding a mechanised trim wheel with stick shaker going nuts, amongst other things, at 1000'
Sure it's a simple act and that's why we have a qrh full of stuff like that but something like this shouldn't be occurring with a single failure point
Try restraining a fast turning stab trim by hand and you risk losing skin. The restraining is for a wheel that is coasting due airloads (?) not electrically moving. That is my understanding, anyway

LeadSled
15th Mar 2019, 14:43
Try restraining a fast turning stab trim by hand and you risk losing skin. The restraining is for a wheel that is coasting due airloads (?) not electrically moving. That is my understanding, anyway
Judd,
A couple of things to consider, the stab "should" not drive (coast) the jackscrew --- they are all square (Acme) threads, stab air loads only locks the nut tighter. Where "coasting" has happened, there was gross wear well beyond limits, negating the fundamental "no back drive" feature of an Acme thread.
Again, in theory, when power is applied to the stab trim motor(s) the brake releases, with no power to the stab trim motors (from whatever source) the brake(s) is on., but it just reinforces the basic engineering of the screw jack.
You are supposed to be able to arrest a main electric runaway by hitting the spinning wheels with your palm, allegedly there is enough slack in the cables for you to then grab and break the handles out --- I have my doubts, im my cases, the cutout switches worked.
As I recall, the stab brake breakout force with no power (manual trimming) makes movement via the handles on the trim wheels a matter of some serious physical effort.
As I said before, I have never done this for real on a B737, only a B707 ( all the aircraft with fully hydraulic/electric controls are quite different) including having two real runaways (both nose down, Murphy's Law) , and as I see it, right to this day, the B737 hardware is fundamentally the same. as the original B737, despite modern "digital" autopilots and associated software systems
Tootle pip!!

Dora-9
15th Mar 2019, 18:29
You are supposed to be able to arrest a main electric runaway by hitting the spinning wheels with your palm, allegedly there is enough slack in the cables for you to then grab and break the handles out

Certainly this was being taught on Ansett B737's.

Lambswool
15th Mar 2019, 21:27
they are all square (Acme) threads,

Minor point Lead,

They are ACME not square threads. Two different things:ok:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/630x184/threads_10c558472e3af9c585fee11859993b3db75caa8f.jpg

LeadSled
16th Mar 2019, 02:04
Minor point Lead,

They are ACME not square threads. Two different things:ok:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/630x184/threads_10c558472e3af9c585fee11859993b3db75caa8f.jpg

Lambswool,
Agreed, but this was more a "Keep it simple" explanation, maybe I should have been more precise and siad "squarish" thread ---- in another thread, it was clear many posters did not appreciate the difference between Metric, Imperial and SAE threads on various DH engines.
Tootle pip!!

Lambswool
16th Mar 2019, 03:08
Ah, I should of known better of you! The devil is in the detail...

AussieAviator
18th Mar 2019, 20:55
Very interesting article about the MCAS system here. I had a stab runaway many years ago in a F28, while on descent into Alice Springs, and all that I can say about the incident, is I'm glad it didn't happen close to the ground!

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/?fbclid=IwAR0wOscIWUIMoTaiAKRCMZr0PPVfCfABYpYvzX0rcAyWR_Vm40 3GYs3rJ0E