BA bidline

[biggles744]

Is Bidline still in use at BA?

[RexBanner]

Touching a raw nerve here, no is the answer.

[biggles744]

Touching a raw nerve here, no is the answer.
What happened?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

They replaced it with a “better” system that appears to have not been well recieved.

[RexBanner]

Not well received because virtually all of the promises made by Balpa before the vote as to the how the system would operate have turned out to be complete falsehoods.

[sidtheesexist]

Don’t forget the ‘they’ is the pilot workforce who voted it in......funny how I never seem to fly with anyone who voted ( or admits to having voted) for it. Strange world. My view at the time was quite simplistic, if the company wants the new system (JSS) in place of the old (Bidline) , then it will certainly benefit the company. And yet, the pilot workforce voted it in...go figure.

[wiggy]

I didn't vote for either......!!!!!

What got missed by some (wishful thinking?) was that there was actually an element of fairness built onto the line bidding system.... .if you wanted plum trip A you may well have to also do duff trip B, though of course the savvy could mitigate some of the rubbish.

Chuck in the fact the vote on JSS was conflated with the issue of flying pay and Bingo.

[bex88]

I get the same dross I got before but now it is minimum rest and 5-6 day blocks. The nice surprise trips I used to get have vanished. Early to late reports and 4 sector day trips. 9 weeks in and I am going to have to bring it up at my medical. I can’t sleep properly, I have fell asleep in my uniform in a service station and I show signs of fatigue or possibly depression. Still “Let’s chat” said NP........shame no f#£ker is listening.

Its not the volume of work, it’s the construction of the work and the intensity of it. Mentally I am exhausted.

[biggles744]

Is there no equivalent of Flexi cap, or whatever it was called under Bidline?

[wiggy]

The flexible credited hours target is still there...(as was the case in the final days of Bidline), but the problem (one of many) is it’s magnitude...and that is a function of the pilot establishment and flying programme....variables that are firmly in the hands of the company.

One big problem at the moment - it appears easier under JSS for senior bidders to get a higher percentage of high credit trips than under Bidline (despite continuing attempts by pilot reps to reduce that ability through putting blockers/inhibitors into the software) this is leading to some junior pilots picking up multiple multiple low credit trips...and that’s just one issue for starters, I’m not sure we have time or space to talk about all the other gripes, such as how quickly the system gives up on looking at junior pilots preferences for trips, or has to ignore preferences, in order to get the work covered by the available pilots.....

[Icejock]

These levels of fatigue all sound quite terrible. For everyone one’s sake I hope that you file fatigue reports and forward them to CAA and also report not fit when deemed necessary.

[wiggy]

I think historically at BA there’s a been a bit of reluctance to report fatigue (after all we had Bidline...best rostering system in the world, etc, so there couldn’t be any fatigue......:bored:) and that in turn appeared to lead to a mindset by some in management that BA pilots simply can’t have fatigue problems.

Fortunately that is now changing (at the pilot level) -and IMHO some of that change is driven by to DEPs coming into BA from other airlines which have a slightly more enlightened and modern attitude to fatigue and the reporting of fatigue

[Jumbo2]

They replaced it with a “better” system that appears to have not been well recieved.

I would go with received with mixed feelings.

Direct entry long haul did indeed get a whole lot more :yuk:

With shorthaul comparing the JSS junior roosters to the old blind lines it looks very similar. The group of junior pilots does look a bit bigger under JSS. The criticism from the other SH pilots (non junior >40% of the bottom) is the amount of tempering of the system the BALPA reps are doing. The amount of destinations with inhibitors on them is just getting ridiculous (39 destinations) Quiet a few complain emails have gone to the guys doing all this tempering with regards to what on earth they did with the April bid.

[Icejock]

This type of seniority-based rostering feels so archaic, I understand that everyone who has been in the system for several years want to get their time to get a good roster but to judge junior pilots spare time as less important than others is quite strange. I fully support that seniority rules upgrades and fleets and so on but everyones time off and chance to spend it with family should all be treated equal.

[Flying Clog]

Oh here we go, a snowflake chimes in from the peanut gallery...

[wiggy]

This type of seniority-based rostering feels so archaic.... I fully support that seniority rules upgrades and fleets and so on but everyones time off and chance to spend it with family should all be treated equal.

Problem is you need the wisdom of Solomon to sort this out, because what some would regard is a “good” roster with time off in the right places, others would regard as pants and awful for family life.....and this in part one of the reasons for some of the complaints about BALPA reps interfering with the process.

[biggles744]

Retirement! It is waiting for you all, no JSS or Bidline, in fact it is a rostered system, I do what my wife says!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

I once had a Pilot who hadn't flown in a month and he still complained about the flight assigned. Trying to keep "Nigels" happy is something that's for the best part of 40 years been really hard to achieve....

[Callsign Kilo]

Can anyone explain how JSS was sold to the pilots? As it seems to me, BA had massive crewing headaches and wee unable to fill lines of work under Bidline; so JSS was mostly beneficial to rostering and crewing?

As you can probably tell, I’m not BA however the current system seems to be a real sh1tfest for junior crew. I realise pprune is far from a true reflection however there are some horror stories. I hope you make it bex88; look after yourself. I’ve felt how you’re feeling.

[overstress]

The balance of the ruleset known as “bidline” is still intact. What people are talking about here is the roster production element.

[wiggy]

The balance of the ruleset known as “bidline” is still intact. What people are talking about here is the roster production element.

That is true of course... - Bidline rules are still in play for items as trip construction, Minimum Base Turn Round etc, but for many the change in the roster production element has a massive effect on people’s lifestyle.

[wiggy]

Can anyone explain how JSS was sold to the pilots? As it seems to me, BA had massive crewing headaches and wee unable to fill lines of work under Bidline; so JSS was mostly beneficial to rostering and crewing?

As you can probably tell, I’m not BA however the current system seems to be a real sh1tfest for junior crew. I realise pprune is far from a true reflection however there are some horror stories. I hope you make it bex88; look after yourself. I’ve felt how you’re feeling.




As I recall it..

1. Bidline was creaking very badly (hard to cover work with the establishment level BA were willing to support...which will open a whole other debate)..various sticking plaster solutions bring introduced such as the company placing extra work onto people’s lines at or just before final roster publication...causing much unhappiness.

2. Bidline technical support was due to end...(BA was supposedly the last or one of the last Bidline users)
....

Party line from the BACC seems to have become basically “we can’t continue to expend political capital and effort unconditionally defending the rostering system in it’s current form.”

Options were either a very changed Bidline light (can’t recall the details but intially at least you still bid for lines), or JSS, BA version.

BALPA published the pros and cons of each.....they may or may not have been entirely even handed and certainly some painted a very optimistic picture of JSS’s capabilities to produce bespoke rosters for everybody (oh and I think some weren’t far off claiming that on it’s off days the system would guarantee world peace and also produce a cure for the common cold).

There was also an element of “anything but Bidline” from a few members and so to a degree the BACC were pushing at a slightly open door. Some simply wouldn’t vote for anything tagged Bidline because it was “tainted” by the whole concept of seniority, and a belief, illustrated by what a junior pilot said to me at one point prior to the vote :

”at least if we get JSS it will stop the senior ****** getting all the time off they want and I’ll be able to get weekends off at last..”..

Well......we know how well that is working out...:uhoh:

Finally (and I think I remember this correctly) come voting time the BACC succeeded in muddying the waters by having a ballot which wasn’t just about the choice of rostering system, but also about choice of Flying pay either being paid by the hours actually flown or via a standard fixed allowance...in short:

Vote one way and get A + B...vote in the other way and you get C + D...

.....at least that’s my possibly controversial short take on it all.

[Tay Cough]

Bidline was creaking very badly (hard to cover work with the establishment level BA were willing to support...

Guess what. JSS doesn’t work properly with the establishment as it is either. :ugh:​​​​​​​

[wiggy]

Guess what. JSS doesn’t work properly with the establishment as it is either. :ugh:



:ok:

“hard to cover work with the establishment level BA were willing to support...which will open a whole other debate”..:E