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73qanda
5th Mar 2019, 20:44
Hi there,
Iíve never operated in Europe or the USA and am interested in how the fuel policies stack up in Australia by comparison.
I operate the 737 NG and over the years have noticed that slowly but surely our Operational Flight Plans are putting us overhead destination with less fuel in tanks on nice days ( no alternate required here).
If I had to guess Iíd say that we average about 3000kg in tanks when we shut down ( I often see 2.4 and I often see 3.2 on nice days).
What I would like to know from those of you operating in Europe and the USA is if those figures are comparable to what you see at work? I am specifically talking about flights where there are no weather related risks and about narrow body jets (737/A320).
Thanks in advance,qanda

ETOPS
5th Mar 2019, 20:52
Hmmmm :rolleyes:

( no alternate required here)

Think I've spotted a big difference that might make comparisons difficult. Spent 30+ years landing with diversion fuel still on board..

BluSdUp
5th Mar 2019, 21:00
Run that by me again, no alternate on a nice day.?

As fare as I recall Company wants us to have 1900kg min. with a rely close alternate.
Did that at Gatwick once ie I had that at OM, but I did not fancy Stansted and strictly speaking LGW has 2 RWYs.
Blocked on with 1640kg after a long taxi in.
But normaly 2800kg to 3200 with a 200 to 400kg saving.
We do Lido used Pilotbrief until ca 5 years ago. Lido is very accurate I find.
Until the airport close!
Happy diversion!
Regards
Cpt B

zoigberg
5th Mar 2019, 21:01
Planned fuel in my company is typically to arrive at destination with 2.3 tonnes minimum which is required for diversion to alternate and the Final Resrve. In reality we tend to get in with about 3 tonnes give or take, unburned contingency and short cuts to the routing normally accounts for the half tonne extra.

ManaAdaSystem
5th Mar 2019, 21:12
2 Runways and nice weather. No alternate.
Light aircraft (NG) down to about 1,6 tons remaining (planned).
I add a bit and usually land around 2 tons.

TriStar_drvr
5th Mar 2019, 21:28
Minimum planned arrival 737 NG is 5000 lbs. at my company.

Capt Scribble
5th Mar 2019, 21:43
EASA Rules dictate you arrive at destination with a minimum of 30 mins fuel at 1500ft plus diversion fuel. Once in the vicinity, you can burn off the diversion fuel. However, airports can close completely for events such as a drone or bomb warning. In the A321 thatís about 1500kg + Alt, normally around 2400kg (min).

ManaAdaSystem
5th Mar 2019, 22:08
EASA Rules dictate you arrive at destination with a minimum of 30 mins fuel at 1500ft plus diversion fuel. Once in the vicinity, you can burn off the diversion fuel. However, airports can close completely for events such as a drone or bomb warning. In the A321 thatís about 1500kg + Alt, normally around 2400kg (min).

EASA also lets you plan without alternate, so you can legally land with less fuel than that.

Skyjob
5th Mar 2019, 22:41
Planning on absolute theoretical minimum of 1800kg in all cases, actual rarely below 2000kg.

WhatsaLizad?
6th Mar 2019, 02:40
Similar numbers at my large legacy US carrier for the 737 NG. Nothing ever stated, just average planning arrival fuel that is equal or better to the OP's numbers. Never had a call in over a decade of adding more than that amount. Pretty good number considering possible flap problem resolution. USA FL thunderstorms can add quite a bit to the amount needed for a proper comfort level. My personal record is adding up to 14500 lbs overhead and landing with less than 5K.

pineteam
6th Mar 2019, 02:52
Hmmmm :rolleyes:



Think I've spotted a big difference that might make comparisons difficult. Spent 30+ years landing with diversion fuel still on board..

That’s standard but you can dispatch with no alternate as long you comply with some requirements. Also, once airborne you are allowed to burn your alternate fuel. The fuel requirement for dispatch does not apply anymore. It’s entirely at PIC discretion and common sense. As long as you don’t land with less than 30 min in the tank, you are legal.
EDIT: Unless of course, your company has their own more restrictive fuel requirement.

bapasa
6th Mar 2019, 03:55
From a USA 737NG pilot, that sounds about right, perhaps a little to the high side of what I typically see. For a planned dispatch with no alternate fuel, our OPSPEC requirement is 55 minutes of fuel based on the last burn rate at cruise, I'd say around 5000 lbs or 2300 kg is typical. When destination weather requires an alternate plus 45 minutes of fuel based on the burn rate at last cruise, fuel remaining at block would be closer to 2800 kg or 6100 lbs.

poldek77
6th Mar 2019, 05:24
We operate to a few airports that qualify for a "no-alternate flight plan" - then calculated arrival fuel is ca 1600 kg (737). The company policy is to dispatch with planned arrival fuel not less than 2 tons so we have some extra anyway.