View Full Version : Career paths
finessemax
23rd Feb 2019, 17:36
Hello everyone,
The airline I work for (major European one) no longer allows long haul FOs to upgrade directly as long haul captains.
The standard career path is now short/medium haul FO, long haul FO, short/medium Captain, long haul Captain.
For some of our FOs, it’s a big issue and legal actions are underway. Some of my fellow colleagues object that no other major airline (European or non-European) has implemented such a rule. I would very much appreciate if you could prove them wrong, should your airline work the same way. Please state the name of this airline as I want to be as accurate as possible.
Thanks for helping me on this one
Easyheat
23rd Feb 2019, 18:01
In SAS you can stay as LH FO, and wait with upgrade until your seniority is high enough for the LH Captains list. That is why you often see FOs in their late 50´s wearing SAS uniform with 3 solid stripes. FO top salary is around 10.000 €, so no need to hurry into the left seat, and do 800 hrs/year in SH (around 600 sectors). In LH it is more like 65-80 sectors/year, which is much more attractive to most experienced pilots.
I don't see any reason why SAS would change this in the future, since it works for all. Sorry to hear about your situation.
Banana Joe
23rd Feb 2019, 18:05
At my airline, which is not a major, there is a seniority list to be considered for command upgrade. On short-haul – besides a minimum amount of hours – there is a requirement of at least 5 years in the company and on long-haul – besides even more hours – the minimum is at least 8 years in the company. In case of need, the time in the company is not a hard requirement as long as you have the minimum hours.
oboema
24th Feb 2019, 17:38
KLM has the same rule, implemented a few years ago:
FO SH - FO LH - CPT SH - CPT LH
The guys who were already FO LH at the time could still go FO LH- CPT LH.
all in conjuncture with the union, no legal cases as far as I know.
Lufthansa has had the same rule for ages.
FO SH - FO LH - CPT SH - CPT LH
Exception: you could go FO long - CPT Cargo (long) - CPT long
FO money is very good. So keep waiting 15-20 years on long range til Captain upgrade is what most do. Usually 3-4 roundtrips a month.
As far as I know, that's the 'rule' in most of the big companies
3Greens
25th Feb 2019, 07:27
As far as I know, that's the 'rule' in most of the big companies
BA Can still go LH sfo>LH Captain.
wiggy
25th Feb 2019, 08:04
BA Can still go LH sfo>LH Captain.
Just as a FWIW/point of info BA used to have the rule that you couldn’t upgrade direct RHS Longhaul to LHS Longhaul but that rule was binned probably 20-25 years ago.
In my airline (part of Lufthansa Group) it‘s also mandatory to have been CMD Shorthaul before becoming CMD Longhaul..
RexBanner
25th Feb 2019, 10:56
Rightly so Wiggy. After all Virgin is only long haul and they promote from within so the argument for being a short haul captain first is totally redundant.
cessnapete
25th Feb 2019, 17:39
Rightly so Wiggy. After all Virgin is only long haul and they promote from within so the argument for being a short haul captain first is totally redundant.
Many BA SH F/Os have gone to Command in LH, what’s the problem? I believe that an F/O is on Command Course on the A380 at the moment.
INNflight
26th Feb 2019, 14:36
Same in Swiss...
F/O short > F/O long > CMD short > CMD long
bananaman2
26th Feb 2019, 17:00
Same in Qantas and Korean I believe.
xikenorbif
20th Aug 2019, 12:35
KLM has the same rule, implemented a few years ago:
FO SH - FO LH - CPT SH - CPT LH
The guys who were already FO LH at the time could still go FO LH- CPT LH.
all in conjuncture with the union, no legal cases as far as I know.
Is it possible in KLM to go from FO SH to CPT SH without doing LH in between? Or is it a requirement?
CaptainMongo
20th Aug 2019, 14:14
Major US carrier here.
Strictly seniority based. Many of our wide body FO’s have flown narrow body Captain, but a few haven’t. A few WB FO’s “hop the garbage sack” and go directly from wide body FO to wide body Captain never being a NB Captain. Whatever your seniority can hold, you can bid.
From my perspective as a training Captain, I believe having experience as narrow body Captain prior to becoming a wide body Captain is a definite plus, but I would fight any attempt to legislate it contractually.