Controller Pilot Data Link Communications (CPDLC) Pacific Oceanic Airspace

[rsiano]

I am presently instructing in the class room for FlightSafety International in Wilmington DE. I received a question from one of my clients asking if Controller Pilot Data Link Communications capability is a requirement in the Pacific Oceanic Airspace. I spent more than an hour Searching for an answer on the Internet with no luck. Are you aware of a source that will provide the correct answer to my clients question? Please use my personal e-mail address of: [email protected] to reply.

Thanks!

Captain R. P. Siano

Richard P. Siano, 602 Fonthill Drive, Apartment G-2, Doylestown, Pennsylvania, 18901-3934

(908)642-4444
[email protected]

[None]

Oceanic airspace is typically inclusive with some noteworthy exceptions. What I mean by this is that there will typically be some mechanism to accommodate lesser equipped flights, but you might not like the timing or Flight Level that you get assigned if you are not equipped. The only exception to this is the North Atlantic High Level Airspace (formerly known as NAT MNPS airspace) which has Data Link Mandatory requirements...no exception...at certain higher Flight Levels. You can find this information here https://www.icao.int/EURNAT/EUR%20and%20NAT%20Documents/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fEURNAT%2fEUR%20and%20NAT%20Docum ents%2fNAT%20Documents%2fNAT%20OPS%20Bulletins&FolderCTID=0x012000DAF95319EADD9946B510C5D7B595637D00AA5EB47 B299B9A4BAD1968B24E18655C

All other oceanic airspace does not require FANS (CPDLC & ADS-C), though in many areas of the Pacific it will afford you a much more suitable route or Flight Level due to smaller (30/30) separation requirements.

You can also review each oceanic theater requirements in your Jepps or LIDO manuals (or whoever you subscribe to). I'm sure you understand that many companies do not permit us to copy/paste or otherwise share information in our company manuals, so the above link to the ICAO EUR NAT office is the best I can offer you. The ICAO APAC (Asia-Pacific) office may be of further help for you...though I doubt it. https://www.icao.int/apac/pages/default.aspx


I am presently instructing in the class room for FlightSafety International in Wilmington DE. I received a question from one of my clients asking if Controller Pilot Data Link Communications capability is a requirement in the Pacific Oceanic Airspace. I spent more than an hour Searching for an answer on the Internet with no luck. Are you aware of a source that will provide the correct answer to my clients question? Please use my personal e-mail address of: [email protected] to reply.

Thanks!

Captain R. P. Siano

Richard P. Siano, 602 Fonthill Drive, Apartment G-2, Doylestown, Pennsylvania, 18901-3934

(908)642-4444
[email protected]

[hikoushi]

The simple answer is that in MOST Pacific airspace (basically everything between the US West Coast all the way out to Japan and down south most of the way to Australia and NZ) no, it is not required. ADS-C and CPDLC used over SATCOM is the essence of the FANS system, and each component is filed as a separate equipment code on an ICAO flight plan. Like others have said it what it really changes is your separation requirements. How well equipped you are on a given day either qualifies or disqualifies you from the various classes of RNP airspace a.k.a. "Performance-Based Navigation". There is a separate section in the ICAO flight plan to file your PBN codes, which will determine the services you will receive. With ADS-C ATC will probably know you are off course before you do! Without it they can't see you so you are back to position reports and estimates, probably over HF radio. Expect to be given non-optimal routings and altitudes, but yes there are operators still flying without the fancy stuff.

Don't let anyone make this stuff out to be more complicated than it really is. CPDLC is basically glorified text messaging, and ADS-C is like a satellite based transponder on steroids and crack! FANS is a wonderful thing; in modern oceanic flying the godforsaken squeal and hiss of HF (aka HAM radio) has been replaced by the blessed silence of SATCOM datalink.

[hawk37]

hikoushi said "The simple answer is that in MOST Pacific airspace (basically everything between the US West Coast all the way out to Japan and down south most of the way to Australia and NZ) no, it is not required."

hikoushi you emphasized "MOST" in capital letters. Are there in fact some areas of the Pacific requiring CPDLC and/or ADS-C?

rsiano poses an interesting question. Is there some simple way to determine what oceanic areas of the world require CPDLC and/or ADS-C?

I see in post #2 None says typically not required. However, a definitive answer would be useful

Hawk

[compressor stall]

I looked at this some time ago and, as I recall, it is NOT required anywhere in Pacific (well southern anyway, I didn't look north) for RNP10. However if you want to get 30nm separation applied, you must be RNP4 and have a direct/ immediate way of communicating with a controller, which is CPDLC (or VHF). SELCAL on HF doesn't count. ICAO doc 7030 - regional procedures I think has the gen.

[hikoushi]

"hikoushi you emphasized "MOST" in capital letters. Are there in fact some areas of the Pacific requiring CPDLC and/or ADS-C?



Hawk

I only emphasize that because I only can answer definitively for the airspace I have actually flown in, which does not include the NOPAC fixed route structure. I can tell you for sure that you can file and fly without datalink on most of the Pacific track systems including the very busy fixed routes between Hawaii and the West Coast of the USA.

[Acecoondog]

This post was over 3 years ago, have the requirements changed at all in the Pacific for CPDLC? We fly a G150 and our client is interested in flying to Hawaii off the west coast.

[hans brinker]

This post was over 3 years ago, have the requirements changed at all in the Pacific for CPDLC? We fly a G150 and our client is interested in flying to Hawaii off the west coast.

No offense, but if I was paying, I would not want to pay for pilots getting advice on pprune. Contact Jeppesen or Universal flight planning or something like that. If you don't know, you pay for training.

[Bosi72]

This post was over 3 years ago, have the requirements changed at all in the Pacific for CPDLC? We fly a G150 and our client is interested in flying to Hawaii off the west coast.

Cessnas, Pipers are still flying over the water using HF radio and skeds (have a look at youtube videos).
With regards to procedures, AIP (Australia for me) would be my first book to read. Also Jepps ENR P-21 onwards.

[MarkerInbound]

The current FAA Pacific Chart Supplement book says Oakland has CPDLC service in its OCA and FIR airspace but no mention of a requirement.

[hunterboy]

replaced by the blessed silence of SATCOM datalink except for the constant non relevant messages every 10 mins ! There was a lot to be said for HF in that it kept messaging to a minimum. I’d say the flight deck is a lot noisier with CPDLC especially across the North Atlantic.

[aterpster]

except for the constant non relevant messages every 10 mins ! There was a lot to be said for HF in that it kept messaging to a minimum. I’d say the flight deck is a lot noisier with CPDLC especially across the North Atlantic.
When I flew LAX-HNL in the 1011, 1987-90, we monitored HF with SELCAL. If was a quiet flight deck except when the F/E made the required position reports.

[ve3id]

The simple answer is that in MOST Pacific airspace (basically everything between the US West Coast all the way out to Japan and down south most of the way to Australia and NZ) no, it is not required. ADS-C and CPDLC used over SATCOM is the essence of the FANS system, and each component is filed as a separate equipment code on an ICAO flight plan. Like others have said it what it really changes is your separation requirements. How well equipped you are on a given day either qualifies or disqualifies you from the various classes of RNP airspace a.k.a. "Performance-Based Navigation". There is a separate section in the ICAO flight plan to file your PBN codes, which will determine the services you will receive. With ADS-C ATC will probably know you are off course before you do! Without it they can't see you so you are back to position reports and estimates, probably over HF radio. Expect to be given non-optimal routings and altitudes, but yes there are operators still flying without the fancy stuff.

Don't let anyone make this stuff out to be more complicated than it really is. CPDLC is basically glorified text messaging, and ADS-C is like a satellite based transponder on steroids and crack! FANS is a wonderful thing; in modern oceanic flying the godforsaken squeal and hiss of HF (aka HAM radio) has been replaced by the blessed silence of SATCOM datalink.

Hey, as a ham radio operator of more than fifty years' experience I resemble that remark! I had perfect hearing until I tripped getting off my bicycle and hit the back of my head on concrete! Did you perchance forget to turn on SELCAL?

BTW, text messaging was invented by hams, just as SARSAT was!

[kit344]

Is CPDLC fitted to JCG aircraft ?

[kit344]

Is there an option on CPDLC to display messages in an alternate language ?
Does the system translate in real-time or does it have a "phrase book" of routine and emergency messages ?