Denham

[Elvis21]

I am thinking of going to Denham (as I live in Central London) to do my PPL.
Has anyone flown here before and have any info/comments on the place. The views coming into land on the website kinda sold it to me.

Also they charge £125 per lesson (hr). Is this reasonable?

Cheers:D :D

[stiknruda]

I've used Denham quite a fair bit in both of my aeroplanes and have found the guys in tower and the instructors/office crew at Cabair very friendly and helpful regardless of whether I arrive in the beautiful polished one or the very tatty/distressed one!

However, £125/hr just seems a lot of money to me and I think that I'd would chose a flight school on something slightly more objective than the views. When you are learning you probably will not have time to appreciate those views, however picturesque they are!

That the instructors seem to wear airline pilot uniform is another thing altogether!

Not sure that this helps.

Stik

[Evo7]

Also they charge £125 per lesson (hr). Is this reasonable?



For what type of aeroplane?

[Negative Charlie]

There are a couple of very different flying schools at Denham - Cabair (snappy uniforms, strong commercial focus) and the Pilot Centre (smart casual, mostly flying for fun) - which one did you have in mind?

[Elvis21]

The planes are C-152. It is £85 to hire the plane and £40 for the instruction.

The school on the website is the Pilot Centre. I didn't know that Cabair was there aswell.

If this seems expensive can anyone suggest a cheaper alternative within easy reach of Central London. I aready have 20 hrs from an RAF scholarship in 1997 and i want to take it up again.

Many thanks;)

[Negative Charlie]

I've used the Pilot Centre at Denham for aircraft hire and have no complaints. The aircraft seem to be well maintained and well equipped (GPS and DME in most of them), and their prices seem to be competitive for the area. They also offer discounts for reasonable amounts of prepayment which could help.

The instructors seem friendly and knowledgeable, but I did my training elsewhere so I can't really say much about that; perhaps someone else could advise?

In any case VISIT SEVERAL SCHOOLS BEFORE YOU DECIDE, and don't base a decision on the nice pictures on a web site. Most airfields look pretty from the air, and after a few hours of circuits you'll get fed up with the view anyway.

[sennadog]

Elvis21, I'd suggest you contact a few more schools before you commit as the prices here seem very high to me.

Try looking at Southend, Rochester, Redhill, Stapleford, Elstree, North Weald, Wycombe or Fairoaks all of which can be found on Google. All of these are within an hour of London depending on traffic of course.

[BRL]

Excellent advice from Sennadog and Negative Charlie
At the risk of sounding like a boring old fart, please do a search and see what you come up with.. :)

[essouira]

One of the major drawbacks to learning at Denham (which they may not tell you !) is the distance to the training area. Because you are underneath the Heathrow zone you have to fly right out towards aylesbury on every flight before you can climb. This adds a considerable cost as you are paying an extra fifteen minutes or so flight time to every hour's training. You may be better off to drive a little bit further and fly from an airfield which has no such restrictions. I think £125 per hour is pretty steep and I bet the instructors don't get paid £40 per hour (but I may be wrong, of course). Depending on where in London you live, you may want to try Stapleford, Booker, Little Gransden or Bourn. The airfields to the south are a lot more expensive. I echo what everyone else has said - go visit a few airfields, get prices, compare, meet people, talk to students and instructors, take a trial lesson. It's a big investment you're going to make so it pays to research it well. Enjoy your flying.

[suction]

One of the major drawbacks to learning at Denham (which they may not tell you !) is the distance to the training area. Because you are underneath the Heathrow zone you have to fly right out towards aylesbury on every flight before you can climb.

Not quite true - the EGLL Zone only extends to just North of Denham - we actually remain at circuit height until abeam the Chiltern NDB to ensure clearance - that's probably 1 mins flying time from the runway - then you can climb up to 2500 under the LTMA. The usual training area is within the Aylesbury - Wescott - Silverstone triangle, that's true, but students are still flying and learning on the way. In actual fact, many students find it beneficial to fly the airplane for 10 minutes before reaching the training area to begin lessons that require use of that area (or similary uncongested area) for Stalls, Tight Turns, Sideslips, PFLS etc, especially if they've been out of the seat for a week or two. Inbound back to Denham can be used for some low level nav practise or Navaid work. Many students are ready for their Skills Test within the minimum hours so I don't think the training area location is an issue.

The EGLL zone is also available for Special VFR clearances to the south which gives new students excellent RT experience, as do transiting Lutons zone to the North. Denham provides both hard and soft runway experience with both 2 & 4 seater aircraft available for training. ATC are great, the circuit is reasonably tight and flown at 750ft which means you'll get more circuits per hour than at airfields with wider circuits.

In short - well worth considering if the price is right. Do visit all the flight schools at Denham. A lot of people slate Cabair and I can't comment to their other locations, but Cabair Denham is one of the most professional, competent and well run training organisations available.

Best of luck

-S

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Elvis21, I find TPC to be an excellent learning environment. As far as training areas are concerned, this really isn't a problem. E-mail me and I will tell you more. Finally, regardless of personal opinions, it is top advice to look around. You are about to spend an awful lot of money, make sure that everything suits your needs and personality.

[AerBabe]

£125/hr for a C152?! :eek:

[tacpot]

You'll only know whether it is £85/hr for the a/c or £125/hr when you come to hire it after you've got your PPL :(

[Biker Pilot]

Believe it or not, folks, but £125/hr dual for 152 is below average in the SE. :-(

As mentioned before, they do £10 discount for pre-paying blocks.

I started training there and the only reason I ended up going to the US to finish was that I could only make weekend lessons. Obviously weekends are going to be very popular and what with the weather, time was dragging on for me and I wasn't progressing as much as I would have liked.

Otherwise, I find TPC very friendly and accommodating and regularly hire their 172.

This is not an advert and I have no connection with TPC other than being a hirer. I am just a happy customer.

BP

[Southern Cross]

Suction is quite right - whilst you cannot train in Denham in the overhead or nearby to it (but where can you in the souther-east anyway?) the transit north is in itself a learning experience. Denham has a tighter and more regulated (due to the Heathrow zone) approach and circuit than most airfields where you might train. THis can only be good for your circuit skills, radio, nav etc.

I converted my NZ PPL to UK at TPC at Denham and later did a multi engine at Cabair and I found both to be excellent - Denham's proximity to London saved time driving and so made flying more accessible - also a consideration for many people.

My 2 cents worth.

[Elvis21]

Thanks for all your replys. I will certianly shop around beofre parting with my cash.

The jury still seems to be out on whether £125 p/h is expensive down south. What did other people pay in a similar location?:confused:

[Lawyerboy]

£99 an hour at High Cross, just north of Ware (an hour's drive from Central London straight up the A10).

The field's unlicensed, so you have to fly down to Stapleford for a T&G at the beginning and end of each lesson, so in practice you get 50mins in your logbook, but an hour and twenty mins or so in the air. You pay for an hour (or part thereof).

The benefit is that you do a x/country every time you fly, but the downside is that you can't just hop in the a/c to go off and do your solo stuff, you have to fly dual down to Stapleford and drop your instructor off, and then pick him up again afterwards.

Seems to work well enough for me;)

[A and C]

Will the £125 cover home landing fees , VAT ,exams , more than about 10 min of briefing pre/post flight ,is the time recorded on a hobbs meter ?.

All questions to ask !.

Remember if the place is full of guys with more gold braid than a south american army then you are in the wrong place.

[amoore]

I can't comment on the Cabair operation at Denham - but I can certainly recommend The Pilot Centre.

The training costs (assuming you fly at the discount rate) would be £115/hour (£75 aircraft rental + £40 instructor) - assuming you are not too big to fit in a 152.

Once you have your PPL I think you will be pushed to find anywhere around London that rents aircraft for less - that's why I went there initially (and I'm still there 3 years later).

[sennadog]

It's probably not that bad. I've just checked and my PPL training was £113.00 per hour with an instructor and for Solo Hire it's £95.00 wet.

[Aussie Andy]

Hi amoore - I've heard, I think from TPC, that one small hassle of flying out of Denham is that the rwy is short and "don't expect to get off with four blokes in a Warrior". No such problems at Wycombe, and from memory the RWYs are about the same (800m-ish)? Sounds like an exageration... ?

[Negative Charlie]

Not an exaggeration - the trees are taller at Denham!

[Aussie Andy]

Ahhh, trees! Thats a bummer as I was thinking of looking at private hire there as possible alternate to Wycombe on occasion, but what would be the point if you had to fly back to Wycombe or over to Elstree in order to pick-up the 4th pax!?!

[distaff_beancounter]

"don't expect to get off with four blokes in a Warrior" Now there's something I had never thought of of doing! :D

But, to be serious, if a Warrior is within W&B limits, I do not see how you would have any problems in getting airboune off Denham's 779m of tarmac. Yes there are trees, but not very tall, & not very close to the runway. Also light twins regularly use that field. I have flown GA7s in/out of there.

By comparison, Elstree is only 656m. And Wycombe at 735m, is shorter than Denham.