Germania in financial difficulties

[air bubble]

According to Aero Telegraph, German airline Germania is in financial difficulties. I quote:
“The European aviation industry has changed in the recent time”: With these words, the latest press release of the German airline Germania, which she released on Tuesday, “current events” begins. This appears in the message, then continue below: Germania needs money in the short term.

As a reason for financial problems is stated in the notice, among other things, the “massive fuel price increases over the summer of last year while depreciation of the Euro against the US Dollar”; it also “significant delays in the Acquisition of aircraft, as well as an exceptionally high number of technical services to our fleet”.

During the flight operation there is, however, no limitations. All Germania flights are held accordingly to plan.

Germania is considering, apparently, also a for sale

As the industry portal “Aero Telegraph” reported, was Germania shortly before the turn of the year in acute financial difficulties. Up to 27. December have used the German airline 20 million euros, to be able to fly further, according to the Portal, relying on several independent and consistent sources.

Therefore, it is no longer just a short-term funding gap: a sale of the whole of the Germania group in part or as a Whole, according to “Aero Telegraph” a current topic. However, the search for new shareholders had been unsuccessful.

[racedo]

Airbus fleet so who would they fit in with one wonders ? Perhaps an expansion of Laudamotion.

[Hotel Tango]

Mainly Airbus (roughly 18 A319s and 6 A321s) but also 6 B737s at the moment.

[rog747]

Shame - always thought they were a nice little airline - seems almost all of the venerable and vulnerable older charter airlines are going the same way as Monarch - very sad - hope they survive, thought they were very popular with their niche UK IT flights with some UK bases.

I think Germania is possibly one of the last remaining original private owned IT holiday charter airline left in Europe (they has been around for over 40 years)

They expanded in recent years into Switzerland and Bulgaria ops plus Germania decided to sell its Boeing 737s and rely on an "all Airbus" fleet, the Boeing 737-700 will be replaced by the end summer 2019
In 2016, Germania had ordered 25 A320 Neo and secured an option for another ten aircraft of the same type. First services due for 2020.

[CaptainProp]

Management released update last night that short term financing has been secured and things seem to be ok for for now. I say “for now” as the question remains, why are they in this financial situation after an over all busy summer (for all airlines)? Business model not working? What happens when / if oil goes up towards $85-90 and stays there?

CP

[rog747]

Management released update last night that short term financing has been secured and things seem to be ok for for now. I say “for now” as the question remains, why are they in this financial situation after an over all busy summer (for all airlines)? Business model not working? What happens when / if oil goes up towards $85-90 and stays there?

CP



Once again its all about fuel costs and efficiencies of the fleet/operations both in terms of fuel burn and technical support - The 737-700's it mentions are costly to maintain plus they had a ground collision with an El Al 767 in TLV and the tail was badly damaged on the Germania 737 - who's fault I do not know who picked up the bill.
Seems Germania pulled out of the UK bases in most despite being popular with pax and tour operators alike. Seems alot of UK work has gone to Polish Enter Air.

As for business model again a foremost charter holiday airline fights to now compete with Lo-co operators - they have also split the company into Swiss and Bulgaria operations with separate company names Germania Flug AG and Bulgarian Eagle,

[CargoOne]

Once again its all about fuel costs and efficiencies of the fleet/operations both in terms of fuel burn and technical support - The 737-700's it mentions are costly to maintain

I suggest you tell this to Southwest who operating just 513 (Five Hundred and Thirteen) 737-700s and consistently have one of the highest profit margins in aviation. With Germania it is all about half of the fleet parked during the winter generating no revenue and competition with large Locos causing low ticket prices.

[rog747]

I suggest you tell this to Southwest who operating just 513 (Five Hundred and Thirteen) 737-700s and consistently have one of the highest profit margins in aviation. With Germania it is all about half of the fleet parked during the winter generating no revenue and competition with large Locos causing low ticket prices.

Is that not what I said? - Germania IS struggling to find a niche between an IT holiday charter and/or a lo-co - as has all european charter airlines in past 10 years - of whom all have gone bust more or less.
To have winter 'lows' has always been the bug bear of the IT flight industry - make hay in the summers whilst you can was the old adage

As for the 737-700 - GMI is not SW
So to have an older somewhat orphan fleet in between more economical Airbus 319/321 will of course create higher costs in both MX/crewing and ops - hence these are all going this year

[EAM]

Shame - always thought they were a nice little airline -

How did you come to that conclusion?
Germania offers P2F since 1994 and has about the worst conditions in the industry.

Not sure if that is you definition of a nice little airline.

[His dudeness]

How did you come to that conclusion?
Germania offers P2F since 1994 and has about the worst conditions in the industry.

Not sure if that is you definition of a nice little airline.

Well, if you are into pain, then...

[FlightDetent]

Pay to upgrade as well. The customers are clueless, though admittedly the brand had a nice zing to it at some places.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=203097

[safelife]

Word in the aviation authority is, GMI come up with funds before week ends or might start the next without AOC.

[safelife]

...salaries not being paid...

[safelife]

...attempting chapter 11-like administration apparently, but the word is it won't be approved so the LBA is going to pull the plug on Monday.
Just gossip still, but coming from all sides now...

[rog747]

So Germany's last private long established holiday airline future looks bleak, started life in the 70's as SAT with Caravelles -
Is there any one else now left in Europe?

Monarch was the last in the UK....We have Titan but not quite the same although they do quite a few IT flights of their own

[Hotel Tango]

It would be sad to see this airline disappear. I happened to take this shot of one of their Caravelles at Palma in April 1984. They changed their operating name to Germania in 1986.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/0Gpo2U.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pm0Gpo2Uj)

[rog747]

They still use ST for their flight numbers :(

[safelife]

Nothing new really, confirming salaries haven't been paid and AOC might be pulled as early as tomorrow:

https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter/luftfahrt-ferienflieger-germania-zahlt-keine-gehaelter-entzug-der-betriebserlaubnis-droht/23937878.html

[safelife]

All flights cancelled as of tonight.

[safelife]

ST de-listed from Amadeus GDS worldwide, as I type.

[safelife]

Pax checking in for flight ST4008 MUC-BEY being turned away by handling staff at this time. Airport still lists the flight, but ST ops software doesn't.

[rog747]

A German investment report 7 hours ago says former airline managers Joachim Hunold (ex-LTU, ex-Air Berlin), Udo Stern and Jörn Hellwig with high pressure on a rescue.
with 15m e of cash...

Too late?

[davidjohnson6]

Possibly just my PC being messed up, but I can't seem to get the Germania website to quote me a price for a ticket

[fjencl]

Possibly just my PC being messed up, but I can't seem to get the Germania website to quote me a price for a ticket

https://www.flygermania.com/en

Its working at the moment

[safelife]

Negotiation with potential investor(s) still in progress, dead line 1 am (UTC+1) for a result. Otherwise probably pulling the plug.

[Denti]

Well, given Hunolds track record, it is probably better to pull the plug right now than to labor on for a bit longer. Great at promising the moon, extremely poor at execution and absolutely great at running right into a wall.

[davidjohnson6]

Pax checking in for flight ST4008 MUC-BEY being turned away by handling staff at this time. Airport still lists the flight, but ST ops software doesn't.
I've had a look at FR242 and the Germania website - it seems that this flight operates normally only on Wednesday evenings and Sunday evenings at 20:45 or 21:45. So why are pax being checked in (or not) for this flight on a Monday evening ? Admittedly FR24 shows there was a cancellation of ST4008 on the evening of 03-Feb, but that is 24 hours before your post. If this was indicative of an imminent airline closure, presumably it would have happened within the following 24 hours ?

[safelife]

Frankly speaking I'm not certain about Munich's flight, I was just told that the representative sent passengers away.
But here's a confirmed one: ST4914 TXL-TLV.
Passengers are rioting in the airport at this time.
Crowd control is being called for.

[davidjohnson6]

It's all over for the German airline. The Swiss and Bulgarian subsidiaries live to see another day though

[luchtzak]

It's all over for the German airline. The Swiss and Bulgarian subsidiaries live to see another day though

Indeed, confirmed :-( https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/germania/ceases-operations-with-immediate-effect/

[Airbubba]

A press release:

Germania Fluggesellschaft mbH, Germania Technik Brandenburg GmbH, and Germania Flugdienste GmbH File for Insolvency, Flight Operations Terminated02/05/2019 - BerlinGermania Fluggesellschaft mbH, its sister maintenance company Germania Technik Brandenburg GmbH as well as Germania Flugdienste GmbH filed for insolvency at Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg on Monday, February 4, 2019. Flight operations will be terminated in the night from February 4 to February 5. Germania’s employees have been informed. Swiss airline Germania Flug AG and Bulgarian Eagle are not affected by this step.

Karsten Balke, CEO Germania Fluggesellschaft mbH, said: “Unfortunately, we were ultimately unable to bring our financing efforts to cover a short-term liquidity need to a positive conclusion. We very much regret that consequently, our only option was to file for insolvency. It is of course the impact that this step will have on our employees that we regret the most. All of them as a team always did their best to secure reliable and stable flight operations – even in the stressful weeks behind us. I would like to thank all of them from the bottom of my heart. I apologise to our passengers who now cannot take their Germania flight as planned.”

Those Passengers affected by the suspension of flight operations who booked their Germania flight as part of a package holiday can contact their respective tour operator in order to organize substitute carriage. For passengers who have booked directly with Germania, there is unfortunately no entitlement to substitute carriage.

Germania’s short-term liquidity need emerged mainly due to unforeseeable events such as massive increases in fuel prices last summer and the simultaneous weakening of the euro against the US dollar, considerable delays in phasing aircraft into the fleet and an unusually high number of maintenance events that the airline’s aircraft required were major burdens for the company.

Germania is an independent German airline with a history that goes back more than 30 years. The airline with the green and white logo carries more than 4 million passengers per year on short-haul and medium-haul flights. Germania offers connections from 18 departure airports in Europe to over 60 destinations within the continent, in North Africa and the Middle East. Reversing the common industry trend, Germania continues to offer complimentary snacks, soft drinks, magazines and a minimum of 20 kg free baggage allowance. Germania’s business model combines scheduled, charter and ad-hoc flights. Together with Bulgarian Eagle and the Swiss airline Germania Flug AG, Germania operates a fleet of currently 37 aircraft. Germania Technik Brandenburg GmbH is responsible for the company's aircraft maintenance. www.flygermania.com (www.flygermania.com)

[akerosid]

Sad to see another fine airline fail. Germania was a regular operator to Jersey and in addition to operating JER-FNC flights for the high number of Jersey residents of Portuguese descent, they were also to begin a season of flights to Tenerife.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8418819

[Less Hair]

Sad to see how those smaller and midsized airlines are not surviving while the big ones get bigger.

[EDDT]

Fine airline? ! Maybe for passengers or for remote destinations.
They invented pay2fly for copilots. Wages were abnormally low for crews!.
Clearly a bottom feeder. No loss in my eyes!

[Less Hair]

You have seen how small their financial reserves were. One bad winter and they couldn't pay their wages.
No need to kick somebody who just died.

[Hotel Tango]

Fine airline? ! Maybe for passengers or for remote destinations.
They invented pay2fly for copilots. Wages were abnormally low for crews!.
Clearly a bottom feeder. No loss in my eyes!

But perhaps a way to build hours/experience and find something better later. When I started in ATC (in the UK btw) I was paid peanuts (and this was in the supposedly good times of the late 1960s). In those days we didn't moan moan moan like today. We just got on with it and worked our way up the ladder!

[bafanguy]

Well, someone is reaching out to the victims of this unfortunate event:

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401498395/germania-a320-pilots-open-invitation-/?TrackID=110

[racedo]

Well, someone is reaching out to the victims of this unfortunate event:

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401498395/germania-a320-pilots-open-invitation-/?TrackID=110

Think Laudamotion will be picking up lots.

[172driver]

Think Laudamotion will be picking up lots.

You mean Ryanair. Laudamotion doesn't exist as separate entity anymore.

[SaulGoodman]

But perhaps a way to build hours/experience and find something better later. When I started in ATC (in the UK btw) I was paid peanuts (and this was in the supposedly good times of the late 1960s). In those days we didn't moan moan moan like today. We just got on with it and worked our way up the ladder!

unless you had to pay for your full training and did not get paid for the first 6 months your comment is completely useless...

[Hotel Tango]

SaulGoodman

unless you had to pay for your full training and did not get paid for the first 6 months your comment is completely useless...

It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route? Your comment is just as useless!

[SaulGoodman]

Maybe useless was the wrong choice of wording. However, your situation back in the 60’s has nothing to do with the t&c’s in germania. You just used it for talking down younger generations.

[His dudeness]

It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route?

Yes, in a way one is. Forced. With ratings that last one year, with 50-60-70.000€ financed etc. Anyone who takes that route must know that they are undermining the T&Cs of the very jobs they long for after a joint like ST, though. In that way, its not bad that they are gone. OTOH they had just absorbed a lot of ex Air Berlin guys and these are f..... again.

[HundredPercentPlease]

SaulGoodman

It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route? Your comment is just as useless!

Would you choose to have heart surgery performed by a surgeon who had to pay for his training, and then pay the hospital to be allowed to operate on you? Really? No chance of him being in dire stress, no where to live, coming in to operate when sick and so on, is there?

The managers who create schemes like this deserve to fail. The real shame is the fact that innocents are dragged down with them - in this case the regular pilots and cabin crew.

HT, I suggest that you take a long look at yourself. Exploiting the vulnerable is not an admirable trait.

[Wickerbill]

Can we stop bickering now over this? The bottom line is that Germania did help a number of pilots into the job market by giving them hours, but you may not like the way they did it. The snag is that most are now unemployed, but they may be OK because there is a shortage of experienced pilots...apparently.

But remember there are a lot of other staff, cabin crew, engineers, ground ops, planners, admin, accountants all without an immediate future.

Good luck to all the staff at Germania, whether you were part of P2F or not. Being out of work is no fun.

[His dudeness]

Can we stop bickering now over this? The bottom line is that Germania did help a number of pilots into the job market by giving them hours, but you may not like the way they did it. The snag is that most are now unemployed, but they may be OK because there is a shortage of experienced pilots...apparently.

But remember there are a lot of other staff, cabin crew, engineers, ground ops, planners, admin, accountants all without an immediate future.

Good luck to all the staff at Germania, whether you were part of P2F or not. Being out of work is no fun.


Ahhh the just except any and everything brigade. "Giving them hours" Oh the joy, the nice people they were. I guess we should start a charity for ST's management then ?

I think it would be better if we all buy our own fuel in future, so that the Michael O'Learies of this planet can get a decent payback for giving us all the hours...selfless folks, these...
Apart from my sarcasm:
There is no shortage, at least not in Germany. And all of these folks in ST were UNDERPAID all the the time already.

[Hotel Tango]

HT, I suggest that you take a long look at yourself. Exploiting the vulnerable is not an admirable trait.

That would suggest that you accuse me of being a person who exploits the vulnerable? What a damning statement to make, and so far from the truth!

As for your analogy, I will resist to go into that or we will go off piste.

Sorry, but even though I fully agree with your view that the managers who create these schemes deserve to fail, that won't happen unless these jobs are not applied for in the first place. Don't blame the airline, blame the guys and girls who apply accepting these T&Cs. If there were no takers things would have to change.

Anyway, whatever some of you may think of Germania, the bottom line is that a large workforce have lost their jobs and my thoughts are with them.

[racedo]

You mean Ryanair. Laudamotion doesn't exist as separate entity anymore.

Laudamotion will continue to exist as a separate entity with its own management.

[shorthauler72]

Sort-of interview with young ST pilot (in German):

https://www.bento.de/future/germania-insolvenz-dieser-junge-pilot-zahlte-100-000-euro-fuer-den-traumjob-jetzt-ist-er-weg-a-e69f8cc9-3496-490c-af35-65f62cbfbaad (https://www.bento.de/future/germania-insolvenz-dieser-junge-pilot-zahlte-100-000-euro-fuer-den-traumjob-jetzt-ist-er-weg-a-e69f8cc9-3496-490c-af35-65f62cbfbaad#refsponi)

Strong topic but very weak journalism.

Did they pay the full amount upfront when joining the P2F scheme or was it "pay as you go" i.e. per flight hour?

[safelife]

The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".
Not sure it's true, time will probably tell.
Would limit the options for the pilots a but further, nasty.

[AN2 Driver]

Did they pay the full amount upfront when joining the P2F scheme or was it "pay as you go" i.e. per flight hour?

Neither. Apparently he did the type rating on a private basis before joining Germania which cost him 29k. The rest was doing his ATPL, also on a private basis it looks like. The way the article reads he was regularly employed by Germania and enjoyed it. He will probably be taken on by someone else relatively fast, time for out of work pilots have not been this hopeful for a while. Lots of companies are looking. I talked to someone in a similar position last week and he had offers of 4 major companies he could choose from.

[Parkbremse]

The days of their infamous proper p2f, charging FOs by the hour in addition to the the type rating are long gone, that was 15-20years ago as far as i know. Nowadays its pay for your rating and earn a low salary, which was honestly not the worst option for rookies. Salaries for pilots in germany outside of LH and Tui are ridiculous even by european standards so germania basically just fitted in on the lower end

[Less Hair]

Plus you need to pass that DLR test for anything LH related. If you don't or have failed once before there is not much choice left. Maybe this no mercy practice is forcing young pilots into P2F and similar too? Maybe the VC union should start with their own policy?

[QuarterInchSocket]

Maybe useless was the wrong choice of wording. However, your situation back in the 60’s has nothing to do with the t&c’s in germania. You just used it for talking down younger generations.
I thought old people talking down to younger generation was an issue isolated to Australia/NZ. Seems not.

HT - that was a rubbish appraisal. In your day, there wasn’t a significant disparity between income and expense, competition for jobs just wasn’t really there. This argument has been had.

Wishing well to the people of germania.

[Hotel Tango]

Yeah, love talking down to those cocky young chaps! :hmm: The fact is that from personal experience at the time I disagree with your rose coloured view of that era.

[SaulGoodman]

The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".
Not sure it's true, time will probably tell.
Would limit the options for the pilots a but further, nasty.

Cargolux and laudamotion are accepting applications from Germania pilots. In fact, Laudamotion is specifically targeting them and so are a few others. Not the worst time to lose your job

[Hotel Tango]

The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".

Cargolux and laudamotion are accepting applications from Germania pilots. In fact, Laudamotion is specifically targeting them

I wonder who was behind the "gossip". Wishful anti Germania person(s) for sure. Good to see that it was total nonsense!

[seven3]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75312-germanias-liquidators-in-talks-with-investors

[Denti]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75312-germanias-liquidators-in-talks-with-investors

I wonder about what? The slots are already re-allocated via the slot coordinator. Of course, that is not a problem in Erfurt and Paderborn. But there wasn't really anyone queuing up to compete there anyway. Well, i won't cry over the demise of that company, i just feel sorry for my colleagues working there.

[Hussar 54]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75312-germanias-liquidators-in-talks-with-investors

A colleague just called me to say the rumours in Germany are that the German operation has been bought by Swiss Investors and, as he puts it, there is now an airline called SWISS with German ownership and an airline called GERMANIA with Swiss ownership !!

Not sure if his info is correct, but I do like the possible irony.

[Denti]

As far as i know only the swiss Germania AG company has been sold, or rather the 40% that were owned by the german Germania. No one knows yet who to and for what price. No idea about the Bulgarian Eagle that was part of the Germania group as well, but isn't (yet) in administration.

But yes, the names and ownership structures are ironic. However, apparently the branding will be redone, not good to fly around in colors and with the name of a broke company.

[safelife]

Germania Airline’s DFO is convinced Germania will be restarted, retaining it’s brand, with 8 to 10 A320 type aircraft.

[safelife]

Press now reports it's finally over, and a restart won't be attempted.

https://www.aero.de/news-31286/Germania-hebt-nicht-wieder-ab.html