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View Full Version : Jin Air pilot South Korea found to be over the limit


Dog Star
28th Dec 2018, 05:26
IMO this is a fair punishment for a crime committed without malice. Also IMO he/she will never do it again............It doesn't have the OTT reaction that we see in the west these days. No public hanging here.

"Flying drunk ..." 90 days of disqualification from a jin air pilot - International News (http://www.tellerreport.com/business/--%22flying-drunk----%22--90-days-of-disqualification-from-a-jin-air-pilot-.SygTy1ZX-V.html)

Sikpilot
28th Dec 2018, 06:49
Without malice?

Ask the passengers of that flight if it would be ok for their drunk pilot to take them to their destination.

Permanent license revocation. Nothing less.

I can assume you have not lost a loved one to a selfish drunk driver.

nicolai
28th Dec 2018, 07:44
Permanent license revocation. Nothing less.
I can assume you have not lost a loved one to a selfish drunk driver.

I assume you've never had a medical problem and got your license back after it was treated and under control?

Alcoholism is a medical problem, not a moral failing.

Imagegear
28th Dec 2018, 07:48
The pilot drank three bottles of alcoholic beverages and eight bottles of shochu on the night of the 13th of last month. According to the council, Mr. A was found to have a "Fail" rating of 0.02% or more, which is the blood alcohol level, at 6:30 am on March 14 at the Jin Air office in Cheongju airport. A arrived at Cheongju the day before and said that he drank 8 bottles of shochu with 3 people from 7 pm to 11:20 pm.

Shochu, or Shochu, is a Japanese spirit usually distilled from barley, rice or sweet potatoes, though it may be produced from anything including sugar and chestnuts! It is usually has an abv of around 25%, although it can be stronger, and it is produced throughout Japan. Typically it is drunk neat, with ice, or mixed with tea or fruit juice, and it is widely available in Japan. There are two categories of Shochu which are "Multiply Distilled" and "Singly Distilled" Shochu. The former may be distilled more than once from various base ingredients, must not be filtered through charcoal, and is bottled at under 36% abv. The latter must be distilled just once from a base ingredient including potato, grain, sake lees, koji (a type of fungus), rice or sugar, and is bottled at no more than 45% abv

Well if I had consumed that lot the night before, the wheels would still be completely off my wagon by the next day and I wouldn't trust myself at the controls of a donkey!! :eek:

IG

Imagegear
28th Dec 2018, 07:57
While I appreciate that the pilot has a medical problem, he did not stop drinking because he realised the gravity of what he was doing, he stopped because he was caught. How many times did he pass that gate and fly in a similar state before he was caught and how many people were at risk because of his actions. If you do the crime, then you serve the time, rehabilitation or not.

IG

homonculus
28th Dec 2018, 08:20
If there was no crackdown, Mr. A, who was assigned as the departure vice-president at 7:25 am, could sit in the cockpit and make a dangerous "drunk flight."

Departure vice president.....they sure do respect pilots. And 90 days later what is to stop a recurrence?

Capt Quentin McHale
28th Dec 2018, 08:48
Did someone mention "GIN Air"????

Rgds McHale.

Forum old Bart
28th Dec 2018, 15:24
If alcoholism is a medical condition, then it is the same as continuing to fly whilst knowing you have, say, a dicky ticker, diabetes or a brain tumour, and hiding the fact. It's definitely naughty, you know it's wrong and it should be punishable.
However, alcoholics are usually in denial, are often depressed, and some would argue that drinking too much is just a lifestyle choice. And there are alcoholics who are reformed and teetotal who are perfectly splendid and competent people. So we need to police a system that give a nod to all of these facts.

Sailvi767
28th Dec 2018, 16:01
IMO this is a fair punishment for a crime committed without malice. Also IMO he/she will never do it again............It doesn't have the OTT reaction that we see in the west these days. No public hanging here.

"Flying drunk ..." 90 days of disqualification from a jin air pilot - International News (http://www.tellerreport.com/business/--%22flying-drunk----%22--90-days-of-disqualification-from-a-jin-air-pilot-.SygTy1ZX-V.html)

He is actually very likely to do it again. Itís far more probably than not since they failed to place him in a appropriate program to get over his illness.

fergusd
28th Dec 2018, 17:15
I thought the pp in the sites title was professional pilots not persistent pissheads . . Suspended for less time than a drunk car driver . . ? . . Really ? . .

You should be ashamed supporting this kind of sentence.

ph-sbe
28th Dec 2018, 19:47
Alcoholism is a medical problem, not a moral failing.

Indeed it is. True alcoholism is the manifestation of addiction to alcohol. Which can indeed be medically treated. Suffering from this medical condition does not warrant LOL, merely a temporarily suspension of ones medical certificate.

Knowingly flying while suffering from a medically disqualifying condition however, is another thing. And that is an offense which is criminally punishable.

I've been diagnosed with pre-diabetes recently, and haven't flown since. Until I lose ~30 pounds and get my a1c levels under control, my medical certificate isn't worth the ink it was printed with. That does not mean I'm being punished; I'm (and others on the ground are) being protected from myself. Should I go out and fly, I would knowingly put others in danger. Which in turn, as it should, is a criminal offense.

Bksmithca
28th Dec 2018, 20:51
I thought the pp in the sites title was professional pilots not persistent pissheads . . Suspended for less time than a drunk car driver . . ? . . Really ? . .

You should be ashamed supporting this kind of sentence.

Fergusd
Feel free to get into a Cessna 172 with him at anytime. This time he was caught at .02 but the next time might be 1.2! The guy's at the front end of the plane are in a Safety Sensitive position and should be 0.0 for Drugs and Alcohol.

BK

bud leon
29th Dec 2018, 07:11
Indeed it is. True alcoholism is the manifestation of addiction to alcohol. Which can indeed be medically treated. Suffering from this medical condition does not warrant LOL, merely a temporarily suspension of ones medical certificate.

Knowingly flying while suffering from a medically disqualifying condition however, is another thing. And that is an offense which is criminally punishable.

I've been diagnosed with pre-diabetes recently, and haven't flown since. Until I lose ~30 pounds and get my a1c levels under control, my medical certificate isn't worth the ink it was printed with. That does not mean I'm being punished; I'm (and others on the ground are) being protected from myself. Should I go out and fly, I would knowingly put others in danger. Which in turn, as it should, is a criminal offense.

He was 0.02. That's less than one standard drink. Most people wouldn't be able to tell they were 0.02 that time of the morning unless they self-tested. A reasonable assumption is he miscalculated the alcohol breakdown time which could be the result of several factors. Obviously pilots should give themselves sufficient buffer, but I think such small exceedances should be understood for what they are. It's entirely reasonable to expect that by the time the plane was ready for pushback alcohol would have been undetectable in his blood. I've worked on worksites where blood alcohol wasn't measured; instead computer tests for reaction time, responsiveness and awareness were required. If those tests were not passed, the person had the option not to report for work, and not be subject to invasive testing. Repeated events would require compulsory councilling. This organisation operating in very hazardous environments has one of the best safety performance outcomes in the world. It would be interesting to see pilot failure rates under that kind of testing regime, because that would also catch fatigue. A bad night's sleep is going to give you the same kind of delayed reaction time and negatively impacted attention focus as 0.02. It's far less problematic for airlines to use the blunt hammer of blood alcohol testing and not test for fatigue, while the companies making money by providing testing equipment and related consumables are very happy to promote their costly technologies. It's always bothered me that one among many causal aspects gets tested while easily testable functional capability is not tested. There are no consumables required in what is extremely reliable computer-based functional testing which has broader reaching safety benefits.

NumptyAussie
29th Dec 2018, 07:25
He was 0.02. That's less than one standard drink. Most people wouldn't be able to tell they were 0.02 that time of the morning unless they self-tested.

the article states
"According to the council, Mr. A was found to have a "Fail" rating of 0.02% or more"
The "more" may be the critical bit?

In New South Wales there is a limit of 0.02 in place for

Drivers of vehicles of "gross vehicle mass" greater than 13.9 tonnes
Drivers of vehicles carrying dangerous goods
Drivers of public vehicles such as taxi or bus drivers

bud leon
29th Dec 2018, 07:47
the article states
"According to the council, Mr. A was found to have a "Fail" rating of 0.02% or more"
The "more" may be the critical bit?

In New South Wales there is a limit of 0.02 in place for

Drivers of vehicles of "gross vehicle mass" greater than 13.9 tonnes
Drivers of vehicles carrying dangerous goods
Drivers of public vehicles such as taxi or bus drivers



Yeah, you are right I missed that. May have been more. A 0.02 limit is effectively an alcohol free limit. My points about capability testing still stands though.

troppo
29th Dec 2018, 09:30
420m won fine isn't to be sniffed at. that's a fairly sizable amount that any employee will get a kick up the ass for causing

PrinceBuster
3rd Jan 2019, 08:38
Is it common for the airline to get this type of fine in asia? I've never heard of it in Europe?! Don't know if it's the right way to go but it will certainly put som pressure on the airlines to take this seriously.

weemonkey
3rd Jan 2019, 19:43
Quote..

"I would knowingly put others in danger."

Would that also fall to those pilots who boeing class as average flying the 737Max? :sad: