RFDS Pilatus PC24

[compressor stall]

Why does air conditioning need to originate from an APU, as opposed to other on board means?

[Petropavlovsk]

Early in the 70's the Essendon based Reg 203 Op in those days was "BizJets" and they started with a Falcon 20 which was modified for Gravel Ops, different tyres, larger diameter, not sure now, long time ago
It's my understanding and I stand corrected; the Hawker 700/800/900's are all gravel approved ex the factory, all you require is the AFM supplement. Antennae protection strips etc
For the Citation 500/550 Citation I and Citation II, a gravel certification was possible with a nose wheel 'spin up' kit, these were also approved for 'soft ground' Ops, ie:Grass etc. It's all to do with the MLG undercarriage oleo leg fairing not striking the ground.
The Citation 560 Encore has Gravel kit available, but soft ground Ops not permitted due oleo leg fairing clearance. It's all in the AFM supplement.
I don't know of any gravel kit that is approved for wet runways
There is a kit available for the C525 series of CJ jets, there is one in PNG with a kit fitted, dry runway and gravel only, no grass.
T/O and landing charts are factored for gravel use. Some models have a reduced T/O mass.
Thrust reversers not to be used for gravel Ops.
Again, I stand corrected on what I have said, times change, memory becomes blurred over 40 years

I hope the RFDS enjoy their PC-24's, good luck to them. IMHO not the smartest choice but time will tell.
Costly for them to operate. Williams engines on the TAP Elite/Gold 'power by the hour' programmes require compressor rinse after every days flight in Coastal environments. Pilot's can di it, but it does tie up a lot of staff.

[FGD135]

it is immediately apparent that you have no knowledge of the aircraft systems.So, the pilot of a PC24 can start the APU, then go about external functions, such as helping to load the patient?

[Petropavlovsk]

I believe the STB engine on the PC-24, an aircraft of which I have NO real knowledge of other than reading a glossy brochure, has an APU mode; reduced RPM and importantly noise levels.
The aircraft AFM will have any requirements for a pilot to be seated at the controls as part of the 'Limitations' section, for ground op of the r/h engine; regardless that does not stop the operator from obtaining a local CASA dispensation to operate in APU mode with no-one at the controls. Just present a safety risk analysis synopsis.

[LeadSled]

“ But I guess the perpetual knockers can't help themselves “ No not at all. There is lot of interest in this project. It’s reasonable to expect some positive results a lot sooner than your suggested two years.
megle2,
But --- that is not what I said, is it??
What I said was directed at how some experience will, hopefully, lead to the best exploitation of the aircraft's capabilities in a mixed fleet.
That sort of "best practice" result doesn't happen over night.
I don't see any other light jet that has the potential of this aircraft "out of the box", so to speak, for RFDS, and initial service introduction elsewhere has been relatively trouble free so far.
I do not that the next production batch will incorporate a number of improvements, the result of in-service experience so far, as it should be --- but I have seen no reports that the aircraft's performance, including operating costs, are other than forecast.
Indeed, the initial production seems to have defied the old adage: "Never by a low serial number aircraft new".
Tootle pip!!

[Petropavlovsk]

Being part of the new type launch customer programme it would be reasonable to expect the RFDS got a 'Honeymoon' deal on the purchase price. A common benefit for a new type into a country.
The operating cost of the aircraft should not be a variable; I would assume there is a smart group of people at RFDS and as such they would be paying Williams TAP/Elite for 'power by the hour' and the top programme includes overhaul, repairs and rental engine. So no outlay other than the hourly rate. The Avionics would be covered under a similar programme. The airframe has a warranty attached to cover anything other than 'fair wear and tear'.
So why are people bitching about the operating costs? The only variable would be an unpredictable fuel cost depending on where the uplift is made.

[Squawk7700]

I believe the RFDS were also the launch customer for the PC12. I wonder how much their experiences in them contributed to design modifications in later models.

[bolthead]

They couldn't be described as 'quiet'. Are they more turbo - jet than fan? A bit 'smokey' too. Heard a story of a 6 week 'upgrade' for one of them.

[601]

Isn't the landing speed of the P24 much lower than that of the other jets mentioned and in fact even slower than many small turbine equivalents.

What is the approach speed for the P24 at MLW?

[harrryw]

What is the approach speed for the P24 at MLW?
Not sure but the Pilateus website gives the stall speed MLW at sea level 82 kts. Landing Config. ( Executive configuration (6 seat), incl. one pilot). My layman calculation gives about 103 + wind corrections.
https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/data/document/Pilatus-Aircraft-Ltd-PC-24-Factsheet.pdf

The net gives Stall speed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_speed): 92 kn (106 mph) for the Hawker 850XP but I can not find the conditions for that. same calculation as above give 120 kts if the stall speed given is that of landing config.

[601]

My layman calculation gives about 103 + wind corrections.
If I remember correctly the highest approach speed for the C550 was 105kts and that was at MTOW so normally approach speed would be lower.

[rcoight]

What is the approach speed for the P24 at MLW?

Vref at MLW of 16,900lb is 102kt.

[harrryw]

Vref at MLW of 16,900lb is 102kt.
Thank you. about the same as B200 I think

[green_eyes]

Anyone have a flight manual for this bird?

[Assumption]

On this topic how are things panning out with the CareFlight G150 in DRW? I understand this was to do the RDH - RAH runs with 2 cot capability. Why didnt they take a look at the old VH-RIO that was on the market for some time. .

[holdingagain]

PC24 is about the only jet able to handle the short remaining runway at YBAF at present. Main runway closed for reconstruction.

[morno]

PC24 is about the only jet able to handle the short remaining runway at YBAF at present. Main runway closed for reconstruction.

What’s this got to do with anything?

[holdingagain]

Hi Morno, nothing but I thought you would appreciate it

[beached az]

Slightly off topic I know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tARfk59Vt_I&fbclid=IwAR09HlY-NGcpjHvEBSrGQ_5tEMdXrWaOW3-TqTQuaWziE-lkr39R-1-wKMo

BAz :ok:

[pithblot]

Well BAz,
that’s a pretty good thread drift if it’s “slightly off topic”.
Thank you :ok:

[Squawk7700]

I wonder if Simon is getting that one or if he’s still waiting for his to arrive? I’m guessing he was onboard as he posted the video.

[flywatcher]

There is another on the book of farces which is considerably more dramatic.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Neat little jigger.

Flightaware, shows it going direct from The Vale to Adelaide.

[Squawk7700]

Neat little jigger.

Flightaware, shows it going direct from The Vale to Adelaide.

The operator is based in Adelaide and it flew into the Vale via Devonport.

[Capt Fathom]

Flightaware, shows it going direct from The Vale to Adelaide.

A neat little jigger indeed!

[Squawk7700]

Reminds my of Sully on the Hudson movie.

These are all the test approaches from a year ago proving it can be done :-)

https://youtu.be/Uve_lEENCCk

[Trevor the lover]

Don't think I would've posted that if I flew it. Ridiculously low approach. Look where the radalt called 50. Way way short of the threshold.

[Dookie on Drums]

Don't think I would've posted that if I flew it. Ridiculously low approach. Look where the radalt called 50. Way way short of the threshold.

Rising terrain possibly, get it on 16 into ML all the time. Have you landed there? I haven't.

[Capt Fathom]

It's GA into a grass strip! Simon hasn't installed the ILS and PAPI yet! :E

[Capn Bloggs]

Rising terrain possibly, get it on 16 into ML all the time.
What, over the threshold?? :confused:

[Trevor the lover]

Would've thought someone of your experience Dooks would have seen it was very low the whole way

[VH-MLE]

I agree with Trevor, a very low approach with minimal clearance from the trees below...

[On eyre]

I agree with Trevor, a very low approach with minimal clearance from the trees below...

Perception might be overriding reality methinks.

[Dookie on Drums]

Perception might be overriding reality methinks.

Agreed. Very easy to criticize when one wasn't sitting in the seat.