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S-Works
12th Nov 2018, 20:49
Open question here guys. What sort of salary and package could we offer to entice Instructors to go career rather than stepping stone.

S-Works
13th Nov 2018, 07:08
Yep, I get that, but you did not answer the question...... ;)

What sort of package would attract people into going into full time instruction? base salary, flying pay, perks, holidays etc?

MrAverage
13th Nov 2018, 08:32
The simple answer is we can't. In order to make our Club even moderately profitable I'd have to charge an extra £20 per hour. In order to pay instructors anywhere near the amounts you're obviously thinking of (and I already pay above average) I'd have to add, at the very least, another £30. All my members would leave very quickly.................

xrayalpha
13th Nov 2018, 08:38
To answer question:

Somewhere between what a bus driver (c20k) and a train driver (c40k) earns.

That's what I have aimed for here and we have had one instructor with us for 12 years, another for about nine years.

Key is - we teach NPPL Microlight. So the capital investment in getting an instructor rating is low, think about 8k. Twelve years ago, we actually loaned our first instructor the cash for his course.

I am led to understand that the UK CAA have agreed, in principle, to raise microlight AUM to 600kgs. This will be a big change!

The only way you'll make a living - even at these sums - means being close to airfield, so little travelling expense. But many airfield are near nice places in the countryside, great for bringing up families!

So, it goes back to life is not just all about money - there is quality to be considered too.

Finally, just do some sums. Factor in Scottish weather and you'll be doing well clocking up 500 hrs in a year. Charge 200 an hour and that is 100k a year gross income for the flying school. So it can hardly offer to match "the other side of 100k" in salary.

Flying lessons are, simply, too cheap to pay a decent wage.

Whopity
13th Nov 2018, 13:09
If you look at the CAAs statistics page you can see up to a 75% reduction in licence issues over 21 years. With more airfields under threat then numbers of potentioal students could drop further. Under the old CAA regime there was a natural progression from PPL instructor to IMC and then Multi-Engine but with increased experiencec requirements from EASA, costs have escalated and there is no easy way to progress from PPL FI to Commercial FI. It was all totally predictable, but aviation is now run by safety managers, not people with relevant experience.

Mickey Kaye
13th Nov 2018, 14:07
Its also vastly more expensive to acquire and maintain FI privileges.

I now have to renew/revalidate my IMC rating which sets me back 250 quid every 25 months. This of course is inbuilt to my UK CPL.

S-Works
13th Nov 2018, 16:28
I am more interested in where I should take my thinking in terms of recruitment to try and retain staff in a large integrated school rather than the PPL crowd. I understand exactly where XRayalpha is coming from with regards to the small flying schools. I need to try and attract and retain quality instructors long term to get over the issues of churn. I am already planning on training them to advance at our cost as its the only way I will be able to get the talent I want. I am really looking at guys on mid 60k salary, with standard paid holidays for the country of operation, training plan and budget to advance them stuff like medical insurance. Does that add up?

S-Works
13th Nov 2018, 17:56
I need experienced guys as its integrated training rather than newly minted FI so unrestricted and able to teach for CPL as a minimum. Basically not wet behind the ears. After that we would put together a development programme where needed.

Parson
14th Nov 2018, 07:59
Career progression is an issue. Going from PPL instruction to commercial, ME and IRI and earning a decent wage doesn't appear feasible unless the instructor goes off and gets 200 hrs IFR & 30 MEP P1 (or whatever the precise figures are) at their own (considerable) expense. That, I think, is the biggest problem.

AdzMc
14th Nov 2018, 11:49
If anyone wants to help fund for my FI rating, then feel free :ok:

I'm already flying for an airline, so I'm not looking to 'make the jump', but I simply cannot afford to pay 8k+ for an FI rating yet, but I really want to instruct on some of my days off.

(worth a shot)

ZuluZuluAlpha
15th Nov 2018, 02:28
I'm already flying for an airline, so I'm not looking to 'make the jump', but I simply cannot afford to pay 8k+ for an FI rating yet, but I really want to instruct on some of my days off.

(worth a shot)Lucky you, I wish I could get a flying gig with an airline. I donít use my FI rating much, still restricted.

MovingUp
15th Nov 2018, 17:52
Copy from another thread on this forum

"Large ATO in North Greece just upgraded their FI terms & conditions (all net):
FI PPL: Basic 1160 euro up to 35 hours then 25euro/hour FI CPL: Basic 1250 euro up to 35 hours then 35euro/hour IRI: Basic 1330 euro up to 35 hours then 40euro/hour CRI/IRI: Basic 1550 euro up to 35 hours then 50 euro/hourBasic is paid 14 times per year in Greece (strange but true, all the better)
They provide accommodation, transportation, license and medical revalidation, even some tickets home. Somebody is taking their instructors seriously...But they are quite picky about selecting their employees"

So a PPL FI could rack up 2000+ net easily and a Senior FI could make 3300 net for 70 hours or 4300 net for 90 hours.....
Blimey that's better than most First Officers or some Captains in a few AOCs...
Hard decision to move to an AOC in this conditions.

Parson
16th Nov 2018, 09:54
MovingUp - I tend to work to the maxim, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.