Possible medically impaired controller-LAS

[Sailvi767]

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/klas/KLAS4-Twr-Both-Nov-08-2018-0730Z.mp3?fbclid=IwAR3NfsKOnoVr-07wBG2mEAPzwqUSv9AjYWRQmSEUNL8vr2B3sl6O-qkcjsk

Be careful out there. Sounds like she had a serious medical event. Took a long time for her to be removed from her position.

[Cloudtopper]

Extremely worrying .....

[Sailvi767]

29 minutes to get someone up to help her does seem way to long. The practice of having solo controllers working late shifts may need to be re-evaluated.

[Banana Joe]

Somebody tried to ask for a supervisor on the frequency.

[Sailvi767]

I understand several aircraft on the ground used cellphones to call 911 to try and get help

[Auxtank]

Sounds like she had a very unfortunate meltdown of some kind. I feel sorry for her; you can hear her falling apart towards the end of the recording.
As said; provides compelling evidence solo controllers are not a good idea.

[thcrozier]

Sounds like she may have suffered a stroke or TIA, what they call a cerebro vascular accident these days. Diminishing ability to speak degenerating into word salad then just coughing, probably because she couldn’t swallow. I hope she recovers.

[Auxtank]

Sounds like she may have suffered a stroke or TIA, what they call a cerebro vascular accident these days. Diminishing ability to speak degenerating into word salad then just coughing, probably because she couldn’t swallow. I hope she recovers.

Yes, indeed. I think you're right - not a meltdown at all - very sad and yes, a speedy recovery to her.

[thcrozier]

https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14971.0;attach=10143

This one starts just a little earlier and you can clearly hear her ability to speak degrading. Also notice that she seems to be laughing and later on crying at inappropriate times. Those are also symptoms of a stroke or TIA.

If that’s what happened it’s a shame no one got to her sooner. Every second counts in those situations.

[Auxtank]

https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14971.0;attach=10143

This one starts just a little earlier and you can clearly hear her ability to speak degrading. Also notice that she seems to be laughing and later on crying at inappropriate times. Those are also symptoms of a stroke or TIA.

If that’s what happened it’s a shame no one got to her sooner. Every second counts in those situations.

Truly sad. I hope she makes a good recovery. She sounds really nice and I bet she's really on the ball when she's on form.
Best wishes to her.

[vee1-rotate]

Reading all the forums and the recently released FAA statement, starting to think this was not a medical episode going by the language used. Perhaps some kind of painkiller or other over the counter medication which saw her performance quickly go downhill?

Just listened to the recording an hour prior and she sounds perfectly fine. Whatever it was, it came on very quick.

[Carbon Bootprint]

29 minutes to get someone up to help her does seem way to long. The practice of having solo controllers working late shifts may need to be re-evaluated.



They got on this one pretty quick:
The FAA is implementing a new controller staffing policy after a tower controller became incapacitated while working the midnight shift at McCarran International Airport (LAS) in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Major airport towers no longer will be able to combine controller responsibilities to one position prior to midnight and 90 min. after the start of the shift, allowing another controller to go on break, FAA said Nov. 9.

Complete article here (http://atwonline.com/air-traffic-management/faa-makes-staffing-policy-changes-after-vegas-controller-found-incapacitated)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

God bless the dear lady and hope she gets back to normal soon. It happened to a colleague of mine -a TIA - from which he recovered and returned to work.

[2dPilot]

SLF here, but an EMT. - What I listened to certainly does fit the profile of a stroke from training and similar to witnessed events.
The coughing was probably due to loss of facial/throat muscular control, I would expect to see the face fallen on one side. Unlikely to be a TIA (Transient Ischemic Event) due to the length and apparent degree of the event.
Not very good news that she seemed to be working alone. Stroke awareness (in the UK at least) goes under the acronym FAST (Face drooping; Arm weakness, Speech = Time to call emergency medics), every minute untreated is a bit more dead brain tissue. I hope she'll make a good recovery though.
I would doubt medicine/alcohol related causes as she seemed to function well earlier in the shift. An allergic reaction (anaphylatic reaction) to something can't be ruled-out either.
Glad to see pilots keeping their situational awareness keen, I presume it could have been much worse with possibility of a collision.

[cossack]

As a controller for the last 30+ years, I found this extremely difficult to listen to. From day one you are told with a chuckle to keep your board up to date in case you become incapacitated, never expecting it to actually happen. The unfortunate thing is that she was on her own which is not at uncommon scenario at even the busiest towers during the quiet hours.

This made me think how I may have handled this.

She is probably unaware what is happening to her and has no reason to suspect things are going to go bad really fast. If you have something acute, chest pains for example, you might think to recall the other controller, but with an insidious event like this, you may feel OK right up to the point where you can no longer take action to help yourself.

The aircrew obviously were alarmed by what they were hearing and took action to ensure safety was not compromised. I hope that if I were in her position that I could count on aircrew to take action on my behalf: don't ask for taxi, listen to what is going on and if you deem it necessary, call for assistance on my behalf either on your previous frequency on by phone.

None of the towers I've worked at have any formal rapid recall procedure (panic button) but I think that may change. This is more likely than providing an extra controller on night shift.

I don't see how having a specified time (midnight or 90 minutes on shift) before combining will mitigate this. If you're going to have an episode, it isn't more likely to happen before midnight than after. I doubt that a combined workload was a contributing factor but I can see that the FAA would want to be seen to be doing something, even if its really nothing.

I hope she gets all the help she needs.

Keep safe.

[readywhenreaching]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/faa-probing-why-las-vegas-airport-controller-became-incapacitated-1523896/

[thcrozier]

SLF here, but an EMT. - What I listened to certainly does fit the profile of a stroke from training and similar to witnessed events.
The coughing was probably due to loss of facial/throat muscular control, I would expect to see the face fallen on one side. Unlikely to be a TIA (Transient Ischemic Event) due to the length and apparent degree of the event.
Not very good news that she seemed to be working alone. Stroke awareness (in the UK at least) goes under the acronym FAST (Face drooping; Arm weakness, Speech = Time to call emergency medics), every minute untreated is a bit more dead brain tissue. I hope she'll make a good recovery though.
I would doubt medicine/alcohol related causes as she seemed to function well earlier in the shift. An allergic reaction (anaphylatic reaction) to something can't be ruled-out either.
Glad to see pilots keeping their situational awareness keen, I presume it could have been much worse with possibility of a collision.

At the beginning of the episode she doesn’t seem to be able to hold the push to talk button down consistently. Toward the end she’s transmitting dead air open mike for a minute or so. I’m guessing this was due to a loss of motor control. I have no medical credentials but I have seen it up close 4 times in my life. The first was at our wedding 35 years ago. A guest acting the same way had to be driven home because he was “drunk”. He was a doctor, in fact he was on call during the proceedings. Everyone was wondering how he could be so irresponsible as to drink so much. Turned out he hadn’t had a drop. He died of a stroke that night.

[JPJP]

As a controller for the last 30+ years, I found this extremely difficult to listen to. From day one you are told with a chuckle to keep your board up to date in case you become incapacitated, never expecting it to actually happen. The unfortunate thing is that she was on her own which is not at uncommon scenario at even the busiest towers during the quiet hours.

This made me think how I may have handled this.

Page break

I hope she gets all the help she needs.

Keep safe.


Thanks Cossack,

I’ve flown into LAS numerous times and remember her voice well - Quite recently in fact (last couple of months). She knew exactly what she was doing. They're a good natured, professional group. Hope she comes out ok.

[Chris2303]

I felt sorry for the male who walked in on this and found what appeared to be his colleague in distress and then had to pick up what was happening on the airfield.

Hope the lady is OK and well done to the replacement

[Ian W]

There is a lot of pressure to reduce staffing in these 24 hour units and anyone who has worked in them knows the boredom of the 1am to 4am hours and it is tempting to let people officially or unofficially 'nap' somewhere. But I always felt a little nervous that something like this kind of incident could occur. In some cases the person with the problem is, because of the problem, unaware that they have a severe medical issue. So a panic alarm will not do much good at all and the FAA idea for dual staffing but only till midnight shows that they have no concern for the individual controller but instead for the operation of the airport. I hope she recovers but half an hour delay in getting help for a stroke is a long time.
Perhaps the only way to get a reasonable response from the FAA would be to point out that a security response to the tower after 911 calls from aircraft should be a lot faster than 20 minutes.

[Chris2303]

Has anybody heard how the lady is doing?

[FlyTCI]

Has anybody heard how the lady is doing?
Quite an unexpected turn of events:

From another web forum. Can’t vouch if it’s real or not.
https://forums.propilotworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7512&d=1542043943



https://www.nbcboston.com/news/national-international/Las-Vegas-Airport-Controller-Mishap-500270171.htmlOfficials Probe Why Las Vegas Airport Controller Went SilentAt one point, the controller sounds sleepy and apologizes over the radio, saying she is "choking a little bit," according to air traffic recordings available on the internetBy Ken Ritter (safari-reader://www.nbcboston.com/results/?keywords=%22Ken+Ritter%22&byline=y&sort=date)Published Nov 12, 2018 at 7:55 AM Updated 6 hours agoNEWSLETTERS (safari-reader://www.nbcboston.com/newsletters)Receive the latest national-international updates in your inboxFederal and airport authorities said Friday they are investigating why an air traffic controller became incapacitated and went silent while working a night shift alone in the tower at busy McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas.

"No safety events occurred during this incident," the Federal Aviation Administration said in a statement about what officials said amounted to a 40-minute span during which the female controller slurred words and then apparently lost consciousness shortly before midnight Wednesday.

"An air traffic controller at the Las Vegas tower became incapacitated while on duty," the agency said. It did not identify the controller or the cause of her incapacitation.

Airport director Rosemary Vassiliadis issued a statement saying that initial findings echoed the FAA assessment.

Five inbound aircraft remained airborne during the incident, and aircraft on the ground held positions or communicated between themselves to maintain safety while moving, the FAA said.

The controller involved in the Las Vegas incident is no longer employed by the FAA, the agency told NBC News Sunday.

Air traffic recordings available on the internet show commercial airline pilots having trouble understanding the controller during radio communications about approaches to land, clearances to take off and directions for taxiing. Some begin talking between themselves about something being amiss.

At one point, the controller sounds sleepy and apologizes over the radio, saying she is "choking a little bit." Minutes later, she misstates an aircraft's call numbers. Finally, her microphone opens to the sound of coughing and grunting.

She does not respond to a pilot's inquiry before the sound of a male voice is heard in the room asking if the woman is all right.

Officials said a male controller who had been on break was summoned to return to the tower. Paramedics responded.

The FAA said the woman was at first put on administrative leave, and the agency ordered two controllers to be in the tower during busy hours.

"The FAA is deeply concerned by the incident, is thoroughly investigating what occurred, and is taking immediate steps to modify its overnight shift staffing policies," the agency statement said.

McCarran is among the 10 busiest airports in the U.S. in passenger volume. The unidentified controller worked for a little more than an hour before trouble began and communicated with pilots of 29 aircraft before she was replaced, the FAA said.

National Air Traffic Controllers Association chief Paul Rinaldi issued a statement praising the work of thousands of union members around the country and promising cooperation in the FAA investigation "so that all of the facts are known."Copyright Associated Press / NBC10 Boston

[MarcK]

The controller involved in the Las Vegas incident is no longer employed by the FAA, the agency told NBC News Sunday.
If that's the way the FAA handles medical problems, all controllers should be worried.

[The Ancient Geek]

You do not have the facts.
If, as seems likely, she had a stroke this could leave her with permanent disabilities for which she would be entitled to early retirement on medical grounds.
"Has retired" and "is no longer employed" would both be true and factual although the second is rather tactless..
We have no knowledge of her current condition and prognosis but I would expect everyone involved to do everything possible in her best interest.

[Radgirl]

There are also other scenarios, but as we have no other information everything is pure speculation. Ideal for PPrune :D

[A Squared]

You do not have the facts.
If, as seems likely, she had a stroke this could leave her with permanent disabilities for which she would be entitled to early retirement on medical grounds.
"Has retired" and "is no longer employed" would both be true and factual although the second is rather tactless.

Controller has a medical event on Wednesday night and by Sunday she's on medical retirement? Nope, not in the US. Nothing is going to happen other than her being on a medical leave of absence (which means remaining employed) until shes been treated for whatever happened, and then three's going to be evaluations as to whether she is going to recover and whether she will be able to hold a medical certificate and return to work. Even if that answer is "almost certainly no", that process doesn't happen in 2 working days. Something happened other than a blameless medical event for the FAA to be announcing that she's "no longer employed" that quickly.

[The Ancient Geek]

Or maybe something has got garbled in the press reports - what a surprise.
BTW, an ATCO requires a Class 3 medical so if it was a stroke the answer is no, never, for life.
There are several items on a medical history which preclude the issue of an aviation medical.

[Airbubba]

BTW, an ATCO requires a Class 3 medical so if it was a stroke the answer is no, never, for life.
There are several items on a medical history which preclude the issue of an aviation medical.

Don't know how they do it in England but in the U.S. you can get your medical back in two years with good results on a battery of tests prescribed in this protocol:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/neurocog/

A Special Issuance may or may not be required as mentioned in the FAA page above:

Will additional testing be required in the future? If eligible for unrestricted medical certification, no additional testing would be required. However, pilots found eligible for Special Issuance will be required to undergo periodic re-evaluations. The letter authorizing special issuance will outline required testing, which may be limited to specific tests or expanded to include a comprehensive test battery.

More here:

https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2017/april/01/implications-of-stroke-and-tia

https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2014/november/21/how-the-faa-manages-airmen-with-a-stroke

[421dog]

Actually, ATCs in the US need a class 2 from an AME contracted to perform ATC exams... (it's the same as an airmans class 2, except it has some EKG requirements)

[Spotted Reptile]

Here's the actual response from the FAA, not the "interpretation" by the various news agencies:

"On Wednesday evening, an air traffic controller at the Las Vegas tower became incapacitated while on duty. The FAA is deeply concerned by the incident, is thoroughly investigating what occurred, and is taking immediate steps to modify its overnight shift staffing policies. No safety events occurred during this incident. The controller is currently restricted from working air traffic."

Notice the word "current." Not "no longer employed" or "fired." That's from the FAA.gov website under news and updates. She may have had a non-medical issue such as drugs or alcohol, but as far as I can see from official sources, she is currently on administrative leave only.

[Airbubba]

Other local news sources reporting that the controller is no longer with the FAA:

An air traffic controller who became incapacitated while on duty at the McCarran International Airport (https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/faa-probing-why-las-vegas-airport-controller-became-incapacitated-1523896/) tower last week is no longer employed by the Federal Aviation Administration.

A representative of the agency didn’t say Monday whether the controller resigned or was fired nor whether its investigation of the incident has been concluded, citing privacy concerns.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/incapacitated-las-vegas-air-traffic-controller-no-longer-with-faa-1525525/

Since the release of this statement the air traffic controller is no longer with the FAA. No other details have been released.

https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/air-traffic-controller-incapacitated-on-duty-no-longer-with-faa/1591527943

The incapacitated air traffic controller in Wednesday’s incident at McCarran International Airport (https://news3lv.com/news/local/incapacitated-air-controller-directs-flights-over-mccarran-airport) is no longer employed with the Federal Aviation Administration, according to a source.

https://news3lv.com/news/local/incapacitated-air-traffic-controller-no-longer-employed-with-faa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhjF1WTn8FE&feature=youtu.be

Seems like more than medical leave for a neurological incident. :confused:

[WHBM]

There is a lot of pressure to reduce staffing in these 24 hour units and anyone who has worked in them knows the boredom of the 1am to 4am hours and it is tempting to let people officially or unofficially 'nap' somewhere..
Well it wasn't 02.30 in some secondary place, and Las Vegas has long had a substantial traffic peak, both in and out, at 23.00-23.59 Local, when this occurred. Just listen to how many different aircraft were being worked. A quick look up shows 20 departures and 17 arrivals, 37 runway movements scheduled in this hour, including several widebodies and let alone any exec jets, scheduled in that hour. Quite how the controller was working two positions and the only other staffer was on their break is surely a question for the management.

Just the same happened at the Air Canada SFO incident. It was midnight, but there were 4 widebodies queued at the hold point which had been unable to get away for up to 20 minutes due to constant inbounds. And yet that was just one controller covering two positions as well.

[Spotted Reptile]

"Seems like more than medical leave for a neurological incident."

I guess you don't realise how news agencies work. One story is created which is then sold to thousands of news outlets usually via a media distribution agency. The outlets then create their own headlines and bylines. But the source is still the same one, and in this case, inaccurate. Just because it's repeated 100 times doesn't make it correct.
I've given you as direct an origin as I can, i.e. the FAA who actually put out the original statement, and you're still quoting news media as if they MUST be more accurate since there are more of them?
Go to THE source. Not "a source".

[hans brinker]

Or maybe something has got garbled in the press reports - what a surprise.
BTW, an ATCO requires a Class 3 medical so if it was a stroke the answer is no, never, for life.
There are several items on a medical history which preclude the issue of an aviation medical.
Maybe. but a stroke isn't one, I know at least one person back in the cockpit of a 121 carrier after a stroke.

[Airbubba]

I guess you don't realise how news agencies work. One story is created which is then sold to thousands of news outlets usually via a media distribution agency. The outlets then create their own headlines and bylines. But the source is still the same one, and in this case, inaccurate. Just because it's repeated 100 times doesn't make it correct.
I've given you as direct an origin as I can, i.e. the FAA who actually put out the original statement, and you're still quoting news media as if they MUST be more accurate since there are more of them?
Go to THE source. Not "a source".

Perhaps you didn't read this quote I posted above:

Since the release of this statement the air traffic controller is no longer with the FAA.

I would say that the FAA's 'original statement' has been overtaken by events and you may be a little behind the times on the latest developments in this news story. But that's OK. :ok:

I don't look for the FAA to put out any further updates since this is now a personnel matter and privacy laws will be cited. But, then again, maybe they will be forced to give a public explanation as they did in the recent Air Canada SFO near disaster. You can see how the original media release stresses that 'no safety events occurred during this incident'.

Will the NTSB take a look at this serious incident at a major air carrier airport? Or, will privacy laws and union pressure keep us from finding out what really happened?

[A Squared]

"Seems like more than medical leave for a neurological incident."

I guess you don't realise how news agencies work. One story is created which is then sold to thousands of news outlets usually via a media distribution agency. The outlets then create their own headlines and bylines. But the source is still the same one, and in this case, inaccurate. Just because it's repeated 100 times doesn't make it correct.
I've given you as direct an origin as I can, i.e. the FAA who actually put out the original statement, and you're still quoting news media as if they MUST be more accurate since there are more of them?
Go to THE source. Not "a source".

Well, I'll give you one thing, you're persistent. So, how do you explain the security alert? That name checks out with other sources online that the individual listed is (or was) in fact an Air Traffic Controller at Las Vegas. You don;t sent around a security alert with instructions to call 911 and mention possible access to firearms for someone who just took medical retirement. I suppose it's *possible* that at the same time the woman in the tower had a stroke, there was *also* an incident involving another female controller at Las Vegas whcih resulted in the security bulletin, but that's starting to be a pretty large coincidence, isn't it?

[Spotted Reptile]

Well, I'll give you one thing, you're persistent. So, how do you explain the security alert? That name checks out with other sources online that the individual listed is (or was) in fact an Air Traffic Controller at Las Vegas. You don;t sent around a security alert with instructions to call 911 and mention possible access to firearms for someone who just took medical retirement. I suppose it's *possible* that at the same time the woman in the tower had a stroke, there was *also* an incident involving another female controller at Las Vegas whcih resulted in the security bulletin, but that's starting to be a pretty large coincidence, isn't it?

She may have well been a security risk; but at the time the FAA made their original statement none of this was forthcoming, so the news agencies made up their own stories with the "fired' angle. At the time of the FAA statement she was "currently not working air traffic." Of course, later events will sort out the reality and yes my post will be overtaken by events, that's what investigations do isn't it. Of course I'm persistent, I'm also pedantic, but it doesn't mean I was wrong at the time, but feel free to score points if you wish.

[A Squared]

At the time of the FAA statement she was "currently not working air traffic."

Right. And the "time " of that statement was Saturday. and numerous news have reported with different wording (whcih suggests that they are not merely cutting and pasting each other) that the FAA *also* on Sunday (that would be the day after the FAA statement you cite) told the media that she was no longer working for the FAA.


so the news agencies made up their own stories with the "fired' angle.

Do you have any evidence, anything at all, that the reports that the FAA had said on Sunday that the controller had been fired was "Made up" ??? The reports are all pretty consistent. Saturday the FAA says she's on leave. Sunday the FAA says that she is no longer an employee, and you *know* that the latter is a fabrication by the media. How exactly do you *know* that is a fabrication?

[Airbubba]

Rumor on ATC forum sites is that this was an EAP (Employee Assistance Program) issue and a warning bulletin was issued to FAA facilities to make sure that she did not attempt to come back onto the property and go postal.

[A Squared]

Rumor on ATC forum sites is that this was an EAP (Employee Assistance Program)

So if it was in fact an EAP issue, there was some history prior to the fateful night, and it wasn't just some "out of the blue" medical event.

[finfly1]

https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14971.0;attach=10143

she seems to be laughing and later on crying at inappropriate times. Those are also symptoms of a stroke or TIA.



Do you have a source for that?Save precious time - know and respond quickly to the warning signs of stroke:

Most of us have headaches or clumsy spells now and then. But the symptoms of stroke will seem unusual and come on suddenly. Call 911 if you or someone you’re with notices these unexplained, sudden warning signs:

A feeling of numbness or weakness in your face, arm, or leg (You might notice it on one side more than the other.)
Vision problems in one or both eyes
Dizziness or loss of balance; difficulty walking
Confusion
Problems speaking or understanding what other people are saying
Severe headaches without warning or explanation

Women may have the same symptoms as men, but they’ve also reported a few others. These symptoms also happen suddenly and unexpectedly:

Pains in the face or legs
Hiccups
Nausea
Feeling weak all over
Chest pain
Shortness of breath
Rapid heart b

[aphexau]

Apparently not a stroke. And yes, she was fired.

https://www.reddit.com/r/airtraffic/comments/9vu5zo/las_tower_update/

[Airbubba]

Apparently not a stroke. And yes, she was fired.

https://www.reddit.com/r/airtraffic/comments/9vu5zo/las_tower_update/

There was quite a bit more information about the alleged situation and the FAA security bulletin on the heavily moderated subreddit a few hours ago.

Also, some relevant moderated discussion at pointsixtyfive.com

My guess, the FAA will go quiet, call this a private personnel matter and hope the media and NTSB don't pursue it further.

[Dog Star]

My guess, the FAA will go quiet, call this a private personnel matter and hope the media and NTSB don't pursue it further.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas :)

[oldtora]

My guess, the FAA will go quiet, call this a private personnel matter and hope the media and NTSB don't pursue it further.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas :)

One more of the thousands of reasons to avoid Vegas .

[aterpster]

My guess, the FAA will go quiet, call this a private personnel matter and hope the media and NTSB don't pursue it further.

Or, the federal assistant attorney general. Lack of enforcement constitutes corruption.