Another sucker drawn in by the Middle East?

[SurfingBear]

Greetings

I've been long time Pprune follower since 2012 when i first started flying. I've learnt a lot from reading the posts on this site since & fast forward six years later, I'm a first officer on a B787. I created this account & thread recently to seek out some sound (...and hopefully wise!) advice on how to proceed forward with my career. Ever since I started flying I've always been infatuated with the idea of working with a Legacy carrier like Emirates, or Qatar in the Middle east. To this day, I'm still eager to make the move.
The Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be ( i was formally a GA pilot) and I made more money flying twin-turboprops than I do now flying a B787 making around $2000 to $2500(Tops!) a month. Captains in my company make roughly $3500-$4000 so it's not a tremendous step up either but one I look forward to nontheless. I'm about to hit that 3000hr mark with 2000hrs on aircraft > 20tonnes and Im contemplating a move to the UAE.
​​​My wife & I are currently getting by but we can't afford much outside a decent living & I strongly feel I can save more money in the UAE than where I currently am.
T​​​​​his leads me to the question, am I making the right decision by trying to move to the UAE?

Thank you in advance for your time & suggestions!

[dusty777]

Should you get hired by any of the ME airlines, your observation "The Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be" would be the same for your second airline.
D7

[level_change]

"the Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be".

Do yourself a favor and don't move to the middle east.
You might not like your job now, but be ready to hate the job and the little life around it that will remain.
Build some seniority back home - cause that is where you will long to return and you will be coming back at the bottom of the list.

[Black Pudding]

Should you get hired by any of the ME airlines, your observation "The Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be" would be the same for your second airline.
D7


but it you will probably earn 2-3 times more

[level_change]

but it you will probably earn 2-3 times more


but you will spend about 2-3 times as much

[Brookmans Park]

I am amused that you call yourself a long-term ppruner

From
A Long-term Ppruner

[JA8957]

Am I the only one who's wondering which employer pays that little for 787 FO's? If OP's location is accurate then could it be for Norwegian? The salary seems insultingly low.

[EESDL]

Please do not think you will save any money by working in ME.
You will spend every cent you earn for reasons you will not consider in your ‘pros’ and ‘cons’ list.
Before you move to the ME - you must completely understand and accept that you will be a 2nd-class citizen and have to accept your claustrophobic position.

[glofish]

Go back to surf your latte macchiato at Costa's

[level_change]

The middle east will eat your soul, it will make you sign up to subscriptions for stuff you would never think about back home but which cost a lot of money. You will become dependent on the salary because of obligations you got yourself into cause you must ; bond, overpriced rentals of real estate , car loans , just to give you and your family a half decent lifestyle in the midst of the 3rd world society that you will learn to hate. The middle east is good if you already have a secure home and a place to escape when they fire you over a minor mistake no matter how many years you have sacrificed your health to fly their slavery rosters. All in all , the best experience you will take from it is that you will - from the moment of your final expit permit, respect your home and the civilisation you are coming from.

[mmmbop]

The Middle East airlines are not 'Legacy Carriers.'

[TwinJock]

Please do not think you will save any money by working in ME.
You will spend every cent you earn for reasons you will not consider in your ‘pros’ and ‘cons’ list.
Before you move to the ME - you must completely understand and accept that you will be a 2nd-class citizen and have to accept your claustrophobic position.
Nonsense. I know many guys that have saved a tidy sum of money working in the ME. The choice of how much you save depends on your lifestyle, and investment savy decisions. Their are those who arrive with nothing and leave with nothing, will bad mouth everything in the sandpit, and then the rest. Individuals from legacy carriers state that they make more money as FO' s in the ME than commanders back home.
There are irritations that you have to work around in this neck of the woods, but second class citizens, really?

[seven3seven]

If you want a legacy carrier try BA, Qantas, Lufthansa, Singapore etc.

[sia sniffer]

I am amused that you call yourself a long-term ppruner

From
A Long-term Ppruner

Me too LOL.

WARNING: SIA is a RACIST TOXIC ENVIRONMENT. Buyer beware.
I did that gig, but thankfully escaped with my middle age still along way away.

East or West, any aviation job sucks with modern T&Cs. Unless you make it to legacy, eg BA :)

[Airmann]

If you can come with a number in mind and can live within your means then you can get what you want and leave. Don't expect anything more from this place except money. The guys who can't save are those that have no plans and need to keep spending to satisfy themselves.

If you are the kind of person that needs a lot of external stimulation in life to be happy like concerts, beautiful scenery (haha not.mucj of that here), restaurants and all within the framework of your own society then you will be sorely disappointed.

If however, you can basically live in a fashion that doesn't need too much external stimulation but one in which time with friends, movies, books a few holidays per year etc. will be fine then you should be ok.

The issue is that individuals who have no business leaving their own societies and cultures but get tempted by the money show up and realize that life outside of their country is not the same everywhere else in the world and then bitch about it. They also fail to realise that actually living somewhere is different from going on holiday to that place, they therefore try to make their life into a holiday and it all goes wrong from there.

Maturity and a good understanding of where it is you're going and what your life is going to be like is the key here. There are plenty of people that bitch and moan but end up spending 15-25 years here.

[SurfingBear]

Once again, i really appreciate all the helpful suggestions shared. Given what I've read, i'm thinking about visiting Dubai for a few weeks & seeing what the place is actually like. I realize that going there as a tourist wont give me the full scope of what its like to actually work & live there however its the second best thing i can think after inquiring on this forum. Perhaps the visit will make my decision to commit to or cancel the move a little easier.

[JA8957]

Make sure to read the "are you ready to move to Dubai" sticky and see how you score.

[luvly jubbly]

I am amused that you call yourself a long-term ppruner

From
A Long-term Ppruner

lol. Same here!

[nolimitholdem]

I am no defender of the ME carriers, but I arrived with less than nothing (ie debt), wiped that out in four months and then left with a pile of money. Soul somewhat intact. ;)

To suggest that your costs will increase equally to the undeniable large pay increase is nonsense, unless you are terrible with money, but then people who are terrible with money will behave the same anywhere. You'll just have more to waste in the ME. And most do. Those are quite likely, those issuing the dire warnings. Had to listen to them moan all the time while I was there, how broke they were as they got in the transport with the garage door going down on super high-spec autos...

All of this is only in relation to the financial aspect of the move. The other less tangible aspects...that's even more important, and covered elsewhere ad nauseam. I just felt compelled to point out that there ARE people who go, work hard, and leave with substantial reward. I am but one actual example. But it takes a lot of discipline in a place designed largely to separate people from their money.

[RK Blue sky]

I just felt compelled to point out that there ARE people who go, work hard, and leave with substantial reward. I am but one actual example. But it takes a lot of discipline in a place designed largely to separate people from their money.

You might have left with a ton of money but did you leave with your health and family intact?
In addition to Emirates trying to separate you from your money it also tries to separate your brain, health and sanity not to mention your wife.

[fatbus]

RK , I did and personally know many that did the same . Some people thrive on drama!

[nolimitholdem]

You might have left with a ton of money but did you leave with your health and family intact?



Yes.

And as many, many previous posts will attest I am no EK/Dubai cheerleader.

Perhaps I was lucky, it's hard to know where the line is and some do stay too long and leave too late. My post was not meant as gloating, merely to point out that it is possible to reap benefits and...run.

But how exactly does EK "try to separate you from your wife"? There is an admittedly extremely high rate of failed marriages, but I would attribute that to the lack of normal accountability expat life lacks. That it isn't unique to the ME. From my own observations the place doesn't so much create problems, as expose ones already present that were more readily hidden in one's "home" culture.

I also know of families still very much intact.

[greenfields]

Yes.

.

Not so fast. Healthy today? Yes.(Or rather, I appear to be.) Healthy a year or 3 from now. Maybe, maybe not.

The simple fact is EK pilots and Cabin Crew are guinea pigs. No one knows the ramifications of the type of flying done by them, and in years to come there may (or may not) be serious health issues experienced due to the the flying. The UAE couldn't care, you can never retire there, so any health issue will be dealt with by you, and the government in the country you move to afterwards.

A while ago there was a % quoted for the number of EK Cabin Crew on anti depressants. I don't know how factual it was, but even if it was halved, it is frightening.

[The Crew]

Top tip: Never skimp on health insurance for you and the family. All may seem well , but to have your own independent medical assistance could indeed save your life if things ever go South.

[fatbus]

The crew , makes a very valid point . Newbies need to look at the details of company coverage.

[Farrell]

If you can come with a number in mind and can live within your means then you can get what you want and leave. Don't expect anything more from this place except money. The guys who can't save are those that have no plans and need to keep spending to satisfy themselves.

If you are the kind of person that needs a lot of external stimulation in life to be happy like concerts, beautiful scenery (haha not.mucj of that here), restaurants and all within the framework of your own society then you will be sorely disappointed.

If however, you can basically live in a fashion that doesn't need too much external stimulation but one in which time with friends, movies, books a few holidays per year etc. will be fine then you should be ok.

The issue is that individuals who have no business leaving their own societies and cultures but get tempted by the money show up and realize that life outside of their country is not the same everywhere else in the world and then bitch about it. They also fail to realise that actually living somewhere is different from going on holiday to that place, they therefore try to make their life into a holiday and it all goes wrong from there.

Maturity and a good understanding of where it is you're going and what your life is going to be like is the key here. There are plenty of people that bitch and moan but end up spending 15-25 years here.

As above. Have been in this region for coming up on 15 years now. You’ll get loads of money, and if you talk to the locals, respect the culture, try your best to keep out of trouble, but be willing to accept that the whole thing can end very badly in a matter of days, then come on out.
If you’re a whiner by nature or ‘comfort zone’ comes up in your vocabulary a lot, then stay where you are.
It is what it is.

[Farrell]

Agreed. Loads of money is not in everyone’s contract. And you’re right. You can blow 1000 AUD in minutes at Spinney’s.
Spare ribs last week were 450!

[dragon man]

Agreed. Loads of money is not in everyone’s contract. And you’re right. You can blow 1000 AUD in minutes at Spinney’s.
Spare ribs last week were 450!

Was that the whole pig or only it’s ribs?

[Farrell]

Was that the whole pig or only it’s ribs?

Just the ribs 😊

[dragon man]

Just the ribs 😊

For that price did u get a happy ending as well? 😃😃

[Joker11]

Battered house wife syndrome.

Battered house wife syndrome everywhere.

[Geoff Hunt]

I am amused that you call yourself a long-term ppruner

From
A Long-term Ppruner

We're so glad you're 'amuzed'!

[Greendotter]

Greetings

I've been long time Pprune follower since 2012 when i first started flying. I've learnt a lot from reading the posts on this site since & fast forward six years later, I'm a first officer on a B787. I created this account & thread recently to seek out some sound (...and hopefully wise!) advice on how to proceed forward with my career. Ever since I started flying I've always been infatuated with the idea of working with a Legacy carrier like Emirates, or Qatar in the Middle east. To this day, I'm still eager to make the move.
The Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be ( i was formally a GA pilot) and I made more money flying twin-turboprops than I do now flying a B787 making around $2000 to $2500(Tops!) a month. Captains in my company make roughly $3500-$4000 so it's not a tremendous step up either but one I look forward to nontheless. I'm about to hit that 3000hr mark with 2000hrs on aircraft > 20tonnes and Im contemplating a move to the UAE.
​​​My wife & I are currently getting by but we can't afford much outside a decent living & I strongly feel I can save more money in the UAE than where I currently am.
T​​​​​his leads me to the question, am I making the right decision by trying to move to the UAE?

Thank you in advance for your time & suggestions!


As a long time PPRUNER ;) i am curious what is your idea of an Airline?

For me;
Its a machine where the Funders make money and we are defined as slaves, and them 'masters' and these are terms used in the court in the case of trial and what not. (In Pearce v Foster [1886] QBD536,Lord Esher MR)


cheers

[777GE90]

Greetings

I've been long time Pprune follower since 2012 when i first started flying. I've learnt a lot from reading the posts on this site since & fast forward six years later, I'm a first officer on a B787. I created this account & thread recently to seek out some sound (...and hopefully wise!) advice on how to proceed forward with my career. Ever since I started flying I've always been infatuated with the idea of working with a Legacy carrier like Emirates, or Qatar in the Middle east. To this day, I'm still eager to make the move.
The Airline I currently fly for isn't quite what I imagined my first Airline job to be ( i was formally a GA pilot) and I made more money flying twin-turboprops than I do now flying a B787 making around $2000 to $2500(Tops!) a month. Captains in my company make roughly $3500-$4000 so it's not a tremendous step up either but one I look forward to nontheless. I'm about to hit that 3000hr mark with 2000hrs on aircraft > 20tonnes and Im contemplating a move to the UAE.
​​​My wife & I are currently getting by but we can't afford much outside a decent living & I strongly feel I can save more money in the UAE than where I currently am.
T​​​​​his leads me to the question, am I making the right decision by trying to move to the UAE?

Thank you in advance for your time & suggestions!

Wow, I make more as a Software Engineer graduate... is this kind of salary normal? I have always thought of the idea of doing a career switch at 30, maybe I should stick as a backseat passenger.

[newscaster]

Once again, i really appreciate all the helpful suggestions shared. Given what I've read, i'm thinking about visiting Dubai for a few weeks & seeing what the place is actually like. I realize that going there as a tourist wont give me the full scope of what its like to actually work & live there however its the second best thing i can think after inquiring on this forum. Perhaps the visit will make my decision to commit to or cancel the move a little easier.
I know a white foreign guy not in the aviation field and not a high earner but was at a multinational place, who loved living and working in the region and yearns to return there, currently residing in North American megacity with citizenship of the host country.

So it differs for each, also an Australian ex-EK hostie on youtube loved her work, had to leave for health issues as she had some incurable disorder.