Our airspace / north atlantic track + Brexit

[Vexr]

I've previously applied to NATS and got some way through their assessment centre process, which involved learning that the UK controls the North Atlantic track at the Shanwick Oceanic Control Centre.

I've since asked my uncle (who is an amateur pilot and seems to know way more info than I got in the NATS booklet I had to revise) whether that's a potential playing card in the UK's hands when it comes to Brexit, to which he said our current airspace design was decided on shortly after WW2, and the situation is that UK ATC takes responsibility for any flight crossing our airspace and the Atlantic irrespective of origin, as per an agreement that long preceded the UK joining the EU.

If anyone can let me know the exact situation in terms of airspace sovereignty/access to the North Atlantic track system/whether Brexit has any impact on it, etc, I'd be very interested to know.

[chevvron]

Google 'ICAO 5 Freedoms'.

[DaveReidUK]

whether that's a potential playing card in the UK's hands when it comes to Brexit

Wishful thinking ...

[Vexr]

Shanwick is jointly operated by UK and Ireland - since the mid-60s. The Oceanic area is not over any UK territory or waters (technically it's over the High Seas as I recall). It was available to all aircraft before the UK joined the EEC, it has survived, in some ways unchanged, throughout Europe's evolution into today's EU, and will continue to be available whatever comes out of the pig's ear of negotiations between the UK and EU. Because it's broadly outside the EU's grasp, the way that Shanwick Oceanic works is generally aligned with ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices (without the additional rules applied to ATM within the EU).

That seems to confirm the gist of what my uncle said, many thanks for responding. I might have seriously misheard this news somewhere down the line, but what of the take that the UK doesn't meet EU standards regarding airspace once it leaves the EU? It sounds to me like the UK is world leading (give or take) in terms of quality and safety in that regard.

[Una Due Tfc]

That seems to confirm the gist of what my uncle said, many thanks for responding. I might have seriously misheard this news somewhere down the line, but what of the take that the UK doesn't meet EU standards regarding airspace once it leaves the EU? It sounds to me like the UK is world leading (give or take) in terms of quality and safety in that regard.

My main concern would be in order for the UK to remain in EASA, they need to accept ECJ supremacy, which is a red line for the hard liners.

I’ve heard from UK CAA personel that they no longer have the manpower or general ability to certify all their pilots, engineers and controllers to operate without EASA.

So my question is thus, hard Brexit.....will those controllers be licenced to work international traffic?

[Una Due Tfc]

A strange question..... Does your licence have an endorsement for handling 'international traffic'?

Badly phrased.....will other regulators ( FAA etc) allow aircraft under their flags be separated by controllers who are effectively no longer licenced?

[Una Due Tfc]

Thanks for that.

I’d be more worried about UK airlines not having any access to many countries due previous UK regulated agreements with these countries having since been superseded by EU agreements. Case and point Bermuda being replaced by EU-US open skies. They have the freedom to overfly any country they want but there’s not much point when they won’t be allowed cary fare paying passengers anywhere.