Jobs in US for a foreigner FO

[flyingturco]

Hi everyone,
i got some questions to ask and I hope you guys will answer them.Im a greencard holder from Turkey which means I've rights to work and live in US .I just graduated from my university(professional pilot training program-4 years) , flight school and applied for jobs in Istanbul , fortunately accepted by Turkish Airlines . I also applied for a masters program in Melbourne Florida over Human Factors in aviation and also accepted from there.I'm looking forward to live ,work in US and become an US citizen, but as everyone knows in US you have to spend too much energy and time before you work as a FO in a Major US company like ( delta , AA, United , etc. ) moreover regional companies pay nearly nothing compared to Europe,middle east and asia.So my questions are:
1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?
2)Which type will have better job opportunities in all over the world ?(I mean Boeing 737 or airbus 320,Boeing family or airbus family)
3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?
4) As I read in here (actually found) some companies such like FIJI doesn't require FAA for LA based based foreigner pilot who has permission to work in US , are there any other companies apply that conditions?
5) if you guys were in my shoes, what would you do ? Keep staying in Turkish Airlines until reaching 1500 hrs or choose masters program in US and at the same time convert for FAA and be an instructor then apply for regional ... etc. etc. .?
6 ) which aircraft is better to start ? A320 or b737( typical question ) which one is more pilot friendly , more enjoyable and easier to work in( please don't write such things like nothing is easy in this business you have to work hard and enjoy to fly etc. , because we are gonna fly 80-90 hours per month and sometimes fly even 4 legs in a day so i prefer the most convenient one , but I choose career goals over convenience so if you include your ideas about them with their future opportunities and working environments I will be appreciated)
kind regards

[pilotchute]

You have had 4 years to think about this. You are only asking now?

[flyboyike]

Hi everyone,
i got some questions to ask and I hope you guys will answer them.Im a greencard holder from Turkey which means I've rights to work and live in US .I just graduated from my university(professional pilot training program-4 years) , flight school and applied for jobs in Istanbul , fortunately accepted by Turkish Airlines . I also applied for a masters program in Melbourne Florida over Human Factors in aviation and also accepted from there.I'm looking forward to live ,work in US and become an US citizen, but as everyone knows in US you have to spend too much energy and time before you work as a FO in a Major US company like ( delta , AA, United , etc. ) moreover regional companies pay nearly nothing compared to Europe,middle east and asia.So my questions are:
1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?
2)Which type will have better job opportunities in all over the world ?(I mean Boeing 737 or airbus 320,Boeing family or airbus family)
3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?
4) As I read in here (actually found) some companies such like FIJI doesn't require FAA for LA based based foreigner pilot who has permission to work in US , are there any other companies apply that conditions?
5) if you guys were in my shoes, what would you do ? Keep staying in Turkish Airlines until reaching 1500 hrs or choose masters program in US and at the same time convert for FAA and be an instructor then apply for regional ... etc. etc. .?
6 ) which aircraft is better to start ? A320 or b737( typical question ) which one is more pilot friendly , more enjoyable and easier to work in( please don't write such things like nothing is easy in this business you have to work hard and enjoy to fly etc. , because we are gonna fly 80-90 hours per month and sometimes fly even 4 legs in a day so i prefer the most convenient one , but I choose career goals over convenience so if you include your ideas about them with their future opportunities and working environments I will be appreciated)
kind regards

My answer to #5 would be to get the time with THY while doing your Masters online. Once you convert your stuff to FAA, you should be able to bypass the regionals and instructing altogether with that kind of experience.

As for #6, I'd go with the 'Bus. I've been in it for close to 5 years now, you don't get tired in that airplane. You just don't.

[flyingturco]

I didn't have my green card at that time and when I received it I was already in my college,and right now is the best time to decide for me to choose the best option , 4 years ago I was at the university so I was unable to make masters then :) normally you have to finish a university to go on a masters degree , plus if I was late for something I wouldn't have asked . About the other issues I haven't started my type rating so any productive suggestion will be so nice

[bafanguy]

flyingturco,

I'll say that for a young expat looking to come to the US and establish a flying career, you've already got three HUGE hurdles jumped: Green Card, a job offer from an airline in Turkey giving you experience in a large airplane and a 4-year degree. You're way ahead of the game.

I assume since you said you don't have FAA licenses that your university aviation degree was not gained in the USA ? If so, IIUC, you'll need 1,500 hours total time to qualify for an unrestricted FAA ATPL. Those who qualify for a (restricted)ATPL with sub-1500 hour flight times are graduates of one of a number of FAA-approved US universities:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/atp/media/Institutional_Authority_List.pdf

If you've got a job waiting at Turkish, that should quickly get you experience to 1,500 hours.

Perhaps havick or zondaracer will come along and offer an opinion about the likelihood of a US regional taking you onboard with your non-US licenses and getting you an unrestricted FAA ATPL via their in-house training program as they now do for the Aussies they hire. If that were possible/probable, it would save you lots of time, money and aggravation.

Good luck with your journey.

[MarkerInbound]

1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?

Most of the top level US airlines (American, United, FedEx, etc.) require a FAA ATP. Delta says they will accept a FAA commercial

3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?

There is no direct conversion of foreign licenses to FAA certificates except for Transport Canada licenses. So you would have to complete a Certificate Training Program (one week), passed the written test (a few days of studying for a foreign ATP holder) and pass the checkride. Your foreign types would not carry over. If you were to do the checkride in an aircraft that requires a type there is an additional requirement to complete an approved ground school and flight training program.

[bafanguy]

MI,

My question would be how would flyingturco be any different from an Aussie coming here with only Aussie tickets in terms of getting a regional job and an FAA ATP (plus type rating) via the regional's in-house training program ?

IIUC, Aussies step off the boat with Aussie tickets and the required amount of flight time...then go with a US regional, complete the in-house training program and get spit out the other end with an FAA ATPL with type rating.

If flyingturco came here with his EASA license and 1500 hours ( and his Green Card), why couldn't he just be handled like the Aussies in the context of a foreign national getting FAA tickets ?

[MarkerInbound]

It would be up to the airline. As I read flyingturco's post he was asking about getting hired straight into a main line airline with a foreign license. The regionals are so desperate for pilots they are paying for the CTP for non-ATPs. The mainline airlines haven't gotten to that point yet. While Delta says you only need a FAA commercial I'm willing to bet their resume scoring system would put a commercial certificate pilot so far down the list they'd never get called for the interview. With the green card ft should be treated the same as a native born pilot. And that would require showing up with a FAA ATP. The regionals would suck him up in a heartbeat.'

[havick]

To keep your green card you need to live in the USA. If you are living overseas without getting approval from USCIS, i forgot the actual form number, they will consider your green card abandoned and you have to go through the process all over again.

food for thought

[bafanguy]

MI,

You're apparently correct on all counts.

havick,

:eek: Loss of his Green Card would quickly pull the rug out from under all of flyingturco's plans. I hope he's following your comments.

[fuelsurvey]

If you really want to immigrate permanently to the U.S you should do the masters and go to a regional.
The contacts you make will be just as important as the education and experience .
It will be difficult to keep the green card if you spend a few years at Turkish. The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .

[bafanguy]

The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .

fuelsurvey,

Sorry to hear about your situation...and yes, getting on with career-destination carrier here is a real roll of the dice with worthy candidates routinely left in the dust.

flyingturco still needs to get to 1500 hours to be regional bait. I suppose he could do that over here and while Turkish 737 time won't necessarily turn a legacy's head, it would really jump out at a regional.

flyinturco has an interesting set of options.

[careerSO]

If you really want to immigrate permanently to the U.S you should do the masters and go to a regional.
The contacts you make will be just as important as the education and experience .
It will be difficult to keep the green card if you spend a few years at Turkish. The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .

As somebody trying to tick off as many of the supposed major’s hiring criteria as possible whilst flying overseas (Turbine PIC, 4 yr degree, volunteering etc), i’m just wondering very generally speaking what it was that you felt hurt your application in the US? The hurdles seem to be internal recs and 121 time?

Sorry for asking but at my stage of life I need to limit any time at the regional/LCC’s if I want to stay married ;)

[fuelsurvey]

At the time I wasn't willing to go to a regional.
l think what hurt me most was the fact that I was a complete unknown. I had no internal references and hadn't worked for companies that they were familiar with
This was going back about 3 years ago so I believe the job market has improved slightly.
I checked a lot of the boxes, bachelors degree from a US school, around 9000 hours at the time, 5 type ratings on my FAA ATP and over 1000 hours as jet PIC.
In my home country I can get jobs easily buts it's often because of who I know. Usually there is some common ground, a quick scan of the resume and they'll ask "do you know so and so?"
I haven't been looking for a few years. The China gig is great and commuting from the US allows me to keep my green card. I'll look again eventually.

[bafanguy]

careerSO,

I too would be interested in hearing where fuelsurvey feels he fell short in the eyes of the airline HR departments where he applied.

However, one aspect my personal experience 45+ years ago has in common with today’s applicants is that you’ll NEVER know with any certainty why or in what aspect you didn’t succeed (or even why you DID succeed). You’ll learn the US’s nuclear launch codes before you get any facts from the HR crowd.

I will say that today you have more info about what squares need to be filled and how best to fill them in the eyes of those whose authority matters. Yet even with that, you still see many posts from people, like fuelsurvey, who have done everything they’ve been told to do and still can’t even get an interview at a career-destination carrier much less a job.

Very frustrating if not discouraging. Many worthy candidates will be left behind even in today's environment.

Pilot shortage ? I remain a dedicated skeptic based on empirical evidence.

[careerSO]

Fuelsurvey, thanks for such an honest reply.

You mentioned type ratings on your ATP. Do the US airlines not care if you have TR’s on other ICAO licenses? I understand your app scores more points the more ratings you have.

Bafanguy, I hear you on that pilot shortage!

[rudestuff]

You can have foreign TRs put on an FAA ATP.

[fuelsurvey]

Fuelsurvey, thanks for such an honest reply.

You mentioned type ratings on your ATP. Do the US airlines not care if you have TR’s on other ICAO licenses? I understand your app scores more points the more ratings you have.

Bafanguy, I hear you on that pilot shortage!

I had my type ratings transferred. Basically, as soon as I got my green card I finished off my degree at a US school and got my FAA ATP with type ratings. I paid one of the more reputable resume companies to improve my resume and cover letter. Then I hit a couple of job fairs and applied online to a bunch of companies. No bites. As an experiment I did apply to one regional and they called me within a few hours of applying.
You'd have no problem going to a regional from Turkish. You won't qualify for a direct entry captain position at a 121 operator without 1000 hours 121 time. That means that no matter how much experience you gain overseas, if all you can get is a regional job, there won't be a quick upgrade.
My advice would be to move to the US and build your experience there if that's where you want to be. Although commuting overseas wasn't part of my plan, it's turned out very well.

[bafanguy]

I had my type ratings transferred. Basically, as soon as I got my green card I finished off my degree at a US school and got my FAA ATP with type ratings. I paid one of the more reputable resume companies to improve my resume and cover letter. Then I hit a couple of job fairs and applied online to a bunch of companies. No bites.

Good grief, Man !!! No wonder you're frustrated. No consolation but you've got lots of company.

I'll shoot you a PM.

[careerSO]

I’m sorry it didn’t work out in your first round of trying, but it’s great you’ve made the commuting work and I hope you get a shot at the majors again when you want to go back.

I have another year or more to wait for my GC so I’m going to continue to try and tick off as many of the hiring boxes for now. Then when the GC comes through I can move, get some 121 time and attend a few job fairs. I had hoped not to spend more than 6 months to a year at a regional/LCC (in the current hiring climate) but it seems from your’s and other’s posts that this plan might be too ambitious.

All the best

[flyingturco]

fuelsurvey,

(The China gig is great and commuting from the US allows me to keep my green card. I'll look again eventually)

I didn't get this. Did they base you on US soil?[/left]

[MarkerInbound]

In the FAA world the authorization to command a turbojet powered aircraft or an aircraft weighing more than 12,500 pounds is called a type rating, sometimes shortened to TR. These are added to the FAA certificate at the completion of the type rating checkride.

rudestuff, the only way I know to transfer a foreign type to a FAA cert is to complete the 61.75 process, pass the regular IR written and checkride and have "US TEST PASSED" added to the 61.75. Then when you get a regular FAA commercial or ATP and IF you can show the training for the foreign type rating was conducted by an "authorized instructor" which is FAA speak for a FAA CFI and IF the training and records fills all the squares of 61.157 (b) you can have the type ratings moved to the regular FAA certificate. Or they could be on a Transport Canada license.

[fuelsurvey]

fuelsurvey,

(The China gig is great and commuting from the US allows me to keep my green card. I'll look again eventually)

I didn't get this. Did they base you on US soil?

I'm on a commuting contract. 3 weeks in China and 3 weeks off, at home in the U.S

[bafanguy]

Debated whether to start a separate thread for my question but I'll put it here instead and hope someone sees it. It seems Spirit Airlines has hired a number of Avianca pilots who are doing a great job according to reports. The thread containing this info doesn't mention how they're able to work here...dual citizen, green card, visa of some kind. Any Spirit pilot want to comment ?

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/118070-about-process.html

[cessna95]

probably green card holders already.

As of late Spirit Airlines has not filed any LCA ( Labor Condition Application) for any foreigner.

[bafanguy]

probably green card holders already. That's the most likely case. I assume these folks would also have FAA ATPs as the current requirements for Spirit list that:

https://re12.ultipro.com/spi1000/jobboard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*016DDCCEEE6A2413

[fuelsurvey]

You'll need to apply for a re-entry permit. I had one a few years ago. It's valid for two years.
The 50% time spent in the U.S is for naturalization purposes only.
For visits outside the country of less than 6 months customs has the burden of proof that you've abandoned your green card. Trips more than 6 months but less than a year you have the burden of proof.
In any case, if it's clear that you are not actually living in the U.S or maintaining your intention of living in the U.S you could have your green card revoked.

[cessna95]

Has anyone tried to change status from J-1 to green card.

Assuming the waiver was approved. please share your experiences.

[flyboyike]

Debated whether to start a separate thread for my question but I'll put it here instead and hope someone sees it. It seems Spirit Airlines has hired a number of Avianca pilots who are doing a great job according to reports. The thread containing this info doesn't mention how they're able to work here...dual citizen, green card, visa of some kind. Any Spirit pilot want to comment ?



Dual citizens, in fact quite a few are even US-born.