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Jobs in US for a foreigner FO

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Jobs in US for a foreigner FO

Old 20th Oct 2018, 10:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: istanbul
Posts: 3
Jobs in US for a foreigner FO

Hi everyone,
i got some questions to ask and I hope you guys will answer them.Im a greencard holder from Turkey which means I've rights to work and live in US .I just graduated from my university(professional pilot training program-4 years) , flight school and applied for jobs in Istanbul , fortunately accepted by Turkish Airlines . I also applied for a masters program in Melbourne Florida over Human Factors in aviation and also accepted from there.I'm looking forward to live ,work in US and become an US citizen, but as everyone knows in US you have to spend too much energy and time before you work as a FO in a Major US company like ( delta , AA, United , etc. ) moreover regional companies pay nearly nothing compared to Europe,middle east and asia.So my questions are:
1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?
2)Which type will have better job opportunities in all over the world ?(I mean Boeing 737 or airbus 320,Boeing family or airbus family)
3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?
4) As I read in here (actually found) some companies such like FIJI doesn't require FAA for LA based based foreigner pilot who has permission to work in US , are there any other companies apply that conditions?
5) if you guys were in my shoes, what would you do ? Keep staying in Turkish Airlines until reaching 1500 hrs or choose masters program in US and at the same time convert for FAA and be an instructor then apply for regional ... etc. etc. .?
6 ) which aircraft is better to start ? A320 or b737( typical question ) which one is more pilot friendly , more enjoyable and easier to work in( please don't write such things like nothing is easy in this business you have to work hard and enjoy to fly etc. , because we are gonna fly 80-90 hours per month and sometimes fly even 4 legs in a day so i prefer the most convenient one , but I choose career goals over convenience so if you include your ideas about them with their future opportunities and working environments I will be appreciated)
kind regards
flyingturco is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 13:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
You have had 4 years to think about this. You are only asking now?
pilotchute is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 13:41
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ormond Beach
Age: 44
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Originally Posted by flyingturco View Post
Hi everyone,
i got some questions to ask and I hope you guys will answer them.Im a greencard holder from Turkey which means I've rights to work and live in US .I just graduated from my university(professional pilot training program-4 years) , flight school and applied for jobs in Istanbul , fortunately accepted by Turkish Airlines . I also applied for a masters program in Melbourne Florida over Human Factors in aviation and also accepted from there.I'm looking forward to live ,work in US and become an US citizen, but as everyone knows in US you have to spend too much energy and time before you work as a FO in a Major US company like ( delta , AA, United , etc. ) moreover regional companies pay nearly nothing compared to Europe,middle east and asia.So my questions are:
1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?
2)Which type will have better job opportunities in all over the world ?(I mean Boeing 737 or airbus 320,Boeing family or airbus family)
3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?
4) As I read in here (actually found) some companies such like FIJI doesn't require FAA for LA based based foreigner pilot who has permission to work in US , are there any other companies apply that conditions?
5) if you guys were in my shoes, what would you do ? Keep staying in Turkish Airlines until reaching 1500 hrs or choose masters program in US and at the same time convert for FAA and be an instructor then apply for regional ... etc. etc. .?
6 ) which aircraft is better to start ? A320 or b737( typical question ) which one is more pilot friendly , more enjoyable and easier to work in( please don't write such things like nothing is easy in this business you have to work hard and enjoy to fly etc. , because we are gonna fly 80-90 hours per month and sometimes fly even 4 legs in a day so i prefer the most convenient one , but I choose career goals over convenience so if you include your ideas about them with their future opportunities and working environments I will be appreciated)
kind regards
My answer to #5 would be to get the time with THY while doing your Masters online. Once you convert your stuff to FAA, you should be able to bypass the regionals and instructing altogether with that kind of experience.

As for #6, I'd go with the 'Bus. I've been in it for close to 5 years now, you don't get tired in that airplane. You just don't.
flyboyike is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 13:51
  #4 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: istanbul
Posts: 3
I didn't have my green card at that time and when I received it I was already in my college,and right now is the best time to decide for me to choose the best option , 4 years ago I was at the university so I was unable to make masters then normally you have to finish a university to go on a masters degree , plus if I was late for something I wouldn't have asked . About the other issues I haven't started my type rating so any productive suggestion will be so nice
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 20:50
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,395
flyingturco,

I'll say that for a young expat looking to come to the US and establish a flying career, you've already got three HUGE hurdles jumped: Green Card, a job offer from an airline in Turkey giving you experience in a large airplane and a 4-year degree. You're way ahead of the game.

I assume since you said you don't have FAA licenses that your university aviation degree was not gained in the USA ? If so, IIUC, you'll need 1,500 hours total time to qualify for an unrestricted FAA ATPL. Those who qualify for a (restricted)ATPL with sub-1500 hour flight times are graduates of one of a number of FAA-approved US universities:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/...ority_List.pdf

If you've got a job waiting at Turkish, that should quickly get you experience to 1,500 hours.

Perhaps havick or zondaracer will come along and offer an opinion about the likelihood of a US regional taking you onboard with your non-US licenses and getting you an unrestricted FAA ATPL via their in-house training program as they now do for the Aussies they hire. If that were possible/probable, it would save you lots of time, money and aggravation.

Good luck with your journey.

Last edited by bafanguy; 20th Oct 2018 at 21:15.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 23:00
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,813
1)if i complete 1500 hours in here , can I apply for those companies in US without an FAA ( I have EASA and JAA)?

Most of the top level US airlines (American, United, FedEx, etc.) require a FAA ATP. Delta says they will accept a FAA commercial

3) if US companies don't accept me without a FAA license , how long does it take to convert my licenses to FAA?

There is no direct conversion of foreign licenses to FAA certificates except for Transport Canada licenses. So you would have to complete a Certificate Training Program (one week), passed the written test (a few days of studying for a foreign ATP holder) and pass the checkride. Your foreign types would not carry over. If you were to do the checkride in an aircraft that requires a type there is an additional requirement to complete an approved ground school and flight training program.
MarkerInbound is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 23:24
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,395
MI,

My question would be how would flyingturco be any different from an Aussie coming here with only Aussie tickets in terms of getting a regional job and an FAA ATP (plus type rating) via the regional's in-house training program ?

IIUC, Aussies step off the boat with Aussie tickets and the required amount of flight time...then go with a US regional, complete the in-house training program and get spit out the other end with an FAA ATPL with type rating.

If flyingturco came here with his EASA license and 1500 hours ( and his Green Card), why couldn't he just be handled like the Aussies in the context of a foreign national getting FAA tickets ?
bafanguy is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2018, 03:38
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,813
It would be up to the airline. As I read flyingturco's post he was asking about getting hired straight into a main line airline with a foreign license. The regionals are so desperate for pilots they are paying for the CTP for non-ATPs. The mainline airlines haven't gotten to that point yet. While Delta says you only need a FAA commercial I'm willing to bet their resume scoring system would put a commercial certificate pilot so far down the list they'd never get called for the interview. With the green card ft should be treated the same as a native born pilot. And that would require showing up with a FAA ATP. The regionals would suck him up in a heartbeat.'
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 05:26
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 61
To keep your green card you need to live in the USA. If you are living overseas without getting approval from USCIS, i forgot the actual form number, they will consider your green card abandoned and you have to go through the process all over again.

food for thought
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 12:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
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MI,

You're apparently correct on all counts.

havick,

Loss of his Green Card would quickly pull the rug out from under all of flyingturco's plans. I hope he's following your comments.
bafanguy is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2018, 13:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 37
If you really want to immigrate permanently to the U.S you should do the masters and go to a regional.
The contacts you make will be just as important as the education and experience .
It will be difficult to keep the green card if you spend a few years at Turkish. The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .
fuelsurvey is online now  
Old 21st Oct 2018, 15:04
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by fuelsurvey View Post
The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .
fuelsurvey,

Sorry to hear about your situation...and yes, getting on with career-destination carrier here is a real roll of the dice with worthy candidates routinely left in the dust.

flyingturco still needs to get to 1500 hours to be regional bait. I suppose he could do that over here and while Turkish 737 time won't necessarily turn a legacy's head, it would really jump out at a regional.

flyinturco has an interesting set of options.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 11:55
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: A crew hotel in India
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Originally Posted by fuelsurvey View Post
If you really want to immigrate permanently to the U.S you should do the masters and go to a regional.
The contacts you make will be just as important as the education and experience .
It will be difficult to keep the green card if you spend a few years at Turkish. The experience you gain in Turkey won't be as valuable to a US airline as you think.
I have a green card and now live in the U.S . I thought I would have no problem getting on with a US airline with all of my foreign experience and bachelor's degree. I couldn't find anything decent so I commute to China from the US .
As somebody trying to tick off as many of the supposed majorís hiring criteria as possible whilst flying overseas (Turbine PIC, 4 yr degree, volunteering etc), iím just wondering very generally speaking what it was that you felt hurt your application in the US? The hurdles seem to be internal recs and 121 time?

Sorry for asking but at my stage of life I need to limit any time at the regional/LCCís if I want to stay married
careerSO is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 12:53
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 37
At the time I wasn't willing to go to a regional.
l think what hurt me most was the fact that I was a complete unknown. I had no internal references and hadn't worked for companies that they were familiar with
This was going back about 3 years ago so I believe the job market has improved slightly.
I checked a lot of the boxes, bachelors degree from a US school, around 9000 hours at the time, 5 type ratings on my FAA ATP and over 1000 hours as jet PIC.
In my home country I can get jobs easily buts it's often because of who I know. Usually there is some common ground, a quick scan of the resume and they'll ask "do you know so and so?"
I haven't been looking for a few years. The China gig is great and commuting from the US allows me to keep my green card. I'll look again eventually.
fuelsurvey is online now  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 12:53
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,395
careerSO,

I too would be interested in hearing where fuelsurvey feels he fell short in the eyes of the airline HR departments where he applied.

However, one aspect my personal experience 45+ years ago has in common with today’s applicants is that you’ll NEVER know with any certainty why or in what aspect you didn’t succeed (or even why you DID succeed). You’ll learn the US’s nuclear launch codes before you get any facts from the HR crowd.

I will say that today you have more info about what squares need to be filled and how best to fill them in the eyes of those whose authority matters. Yet even with that, you still see many posts from people, like fuelsurvey, who have done everything they’ve been told to do and still can’t even get an interview at a career-destination carrier much less a job.

Very frustrating if not discouraging. Many worthy candidates will be left behind even in today's environment.

Pilot shortage ? I remain a dedicated skeptic based on empirical evidence.

Last edited by bafanguy; 22nd Oct 2018 at 14:12.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:12
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: A crew hotel in India
Posts: 9
Fuelsurvey, thanks for such an honest reply.

You mentioned type ratings on your ATP. Do the US airlines not care if you have TRís on other ICAO licenses? I understand your app scores more points the more ratings you have.

Bafanguy, I hear you on that pilot shortage!
careerSO is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 41
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You can have foreign TRs put on an FAA ATP.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:58
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
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Originally Posted by careerSO View Post
Fuelsurvey, thanks for such an honest reply.

You mentioned type ratings on your ATP. Do the US airlines not care if you have TRís on other ICAO licenses? I understand your app scores more points the more ratings you have.

Bafanguy, I hear you on that pilot shortage!
I had my type ratings transferred. Basically, as soon as I got my green card I finished off my degree at a US school and got my FAA ATP with type ratings. I paid one of the more reputable resume companies to improve my resume and cover letter. Then I hit a couple of job fairs and applied online to a bunch of companies. No bites. As an experiment I did apply to one regional and they called me within a few hours of applying.
You'd have no problem going to a regional from Turkish. You won't qualify for a direct entry captain position at a 121 operator without 1000 hours 121 time. That means that no matter how much experience you gain overseas, if all you can get is a regional job, there won't be a quick upgrade.
My advice would be to move to the US and build your experience there if that's where you want to be. Although commuting overseas wasn't part of my plan, it's turned out very well.
fuelsurvey is online now  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 21:32
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,395
Originally Posted by fuelsurvey View Post
I had my type ratings transferred. Basically, as soon as I got my green card I finished off my degree at a US school and got my FAA ATP with type ratings. I paid one of the more reputable resume companies to improve my resume and cover letter. Then I hit a couple of job fairs and applied online to a bunch of companies. No bites.
Good grief, Man !!! No wonder you're frustrated. No consolation but you've got lots of company.

I'll shoot you a PM.
bafanguy is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 01:27
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: A crew hotel in India
Posts: 9
Iím sorry it didnít work out in your first round of trying, but itís great youíve made the commuting work and I hope you get a shot at the majors again when you want to go back.

I have another year or more to wait for my GC so Iím going to continue to try and tick off as many of the hiring boxes for now. Then when the GC comes through I can move, get some 121 time and attend a few job fairs. I had hoped not to spend more than 6 months to a year at a regional/LCC (in the current hiring climate) but it seems from yourís and otherís posts that this plan might be too ambitious.

All the best
careerSO is offline  

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