Renewing FRTOL

[Desert Strip Basher]

Does anyone have experience of renewing their FRTOL in the recent past? I have SRG1106 but in the usual CAA way of doing things it refers charges out to ORS5 which is not specific with regard to FRTOL renewal charges. It states a charge of £73, with a note "Except where the applicant is the holder of a licence issued by the UK CAA to act as pilot, flight navigator or flight engineer". Clear as mud then. It's also not clear if I need to courier my licence with the application. Would obviously prefer not to. Any recent experience appreciated. Hopefully once sorted it'll be for life rather than the old 10 yearly.

[Desert Strip Basher]

Correction - this query was from having my licence pre-EASA, at which time a separate FRTOL test was required (not sure what happens now at initial application). Now looking at my since updated EASA licence it has "XII Radiotelephony privileges: The holder of this licence has demonstrated competence to operate R/T equipment on board aircraft in English" and "XIII Language Proficiency : English - Level 6". Valid for life.

From the above I'm inferring there is now a lifetime competence FRTOL attached to my lifetime licence? Seems odd that there isn't a periodic check though I assume this is considered to be picked up in revalidations of ratings etc and if you have a valid rating then you're assumed to have a valid FRTOL. Any confirmation on this appreciated.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

When I regained my PPL after thirteen years of not flying I was expecting to have to do something to renew the FRTOL, but no, the new PPL came with a new FRTOL (and no extra charge).

[Fl1ingfrog]

Since the issuing of EASA aircrew licenses a FRTOL is not required. You only need to demonstrate competence. For new pilots this done by passing the Telecommunications exam and successfully passing the RT practical test. The RT privileges included in the EASA licence do not expire nor does the licence itself.

If you have previously held an RT licence you have demonstrated competence and therefore it is not required to do so again. On the application form renewing your old licence, to put things beyond doubt, ensure that you include your expired RT licence in the list of licences held/once held and also in the array tick the appropriate radio telephony box in addition to the PPL box.

[Whopity]

Since the issuing of EASA aircrew licenses a FRTOL is not required. However; in most States the issue of a FRTOL is still required by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) it is covered under Art 37 of the General Radio Regfulations which states:37.30 2) For aircraft radiotelephone stations and aircraft earth stations operating on
frequencies allocated exclusively to the aeronautical mobile service or the aeronautical mobilesatellite
service, each administration may itself fix the conditions for obtaining a radiotelephone
operator’s restricted certificate, provided that the operation of the transmitter requires only the use
of simple external switching devices. The administration shall ensure that the operator has an
adequate knowledge of radiotelephone operation and procedure particularly as far as distress,
urgency and safety are concerned. This in no way contravenes the provisions of No. 37.2.

37.4 4) Nevertheless, in the service of aircraft stations and aircraft earth stations
operating radiotelephony solely on frequencies above 30 MHz, each government shall decide for
itself whether a certificate is necessary and, if so, shall define the conditions for obtaining it.
The UK still requires a FRTOL and the privileges are endorsed in Section XII of both EASA and National Licences.

With regard to the original question, there is no reference to a renewal charge in ORS5 however they will charge the same fee as for initial issue except where the holder has another flight crew licence when no additional charge is made for a FRTOL.
SRG1106 states:
If no Flight Crew Licence is held a separate FRTOL is issued.
If a UK issued Flight Crew Licence is held the FRTOL will be entered on the licence, which must be submitted with this
application. So if you have a lifetime National or EASA licence the FRTOL privileges are imbeded in it.
Schedule 8 gives no indication of any expiry date for a FRTOL so it must be issued for the lifetime of the holder.

[xrayalpha]

Or just fly without one!

My old lifetime one was replaced with a 5 or 10 year validity one at the time of JAR. Letter from CAA said there would be no charge for re-issue in 10 years. Once 10 years were up, contacted them for re-issue.

Yes, CAA has lost my Level 5 English. Yes, CAA wanted to charge me, and .... to gold-plate it, wanted proof that I had actually used it! When I asked how, they suggested a letter from my local ATC - Glasgow Airport!

I filed the correspondence and carried on, and will take my chances in front of the very wise Scottish sheriffs if ever needs be!

[Fl1ingfrog]

Xrayalpha, You appear to have held a pilots licence and a FRTOL in excess of 20 years and before the english language proficiency requirement came into force. I don't understand how you have been assessed at level 5 in the past, which I suspect is the problem your coming up against.

Can you explain and in particular who assessed you at level 5 and is english your second language?

[gasax]

He lives just outside Glasgow :}

[Fl1ingfrog]

OK, but it doesn't really matter where we live.

I can't understand why someone who has held a PPL for over 20 years and also has been living in the UK for that time is assessed at level 5. You must attend an approved language school to be assessed at level 5. So that must have happened. The CFI/HOT of his flying club could issue the short letter confirming his continued use of his RT use. Holding a UK licence allows that a local FRTOL examiner or a Flight Examiner may assess him/her to level 6 with a simple form submission, so why not.