flyer101flyer
12th Oct 2018, 08:16
This question likely has little application to airline flying. It relates to operations under SVFR clearance.
Can a controller clear a pilot to enter a Class-E-to-surface "extension" ( example-- outside KTVL-- Lake Tahoe-- VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts (http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=38.894&lon=-119.995&zoom=10) -- the area within the dashed magenta rectangle, not the dashed magenta circle ) under SVFR, when the pilot cannot maintain standard Class E visibility and cloud clearance minimums at that location? If so, is it legal for a pilot to operate in such a manner?
The point isn't whether the "extension" abuts Class-E-to-surface surrounding the airport or Class D or C surrounding the airport, it doesn't matter. It's the same question in all cases-- it's what happens in the "extension" that I'm interested in.
I'm looking people for who really feel they know the answer based on actual personal experience as a pilot w/ ATC personnel accepting or denying such requests, or actual experiences working this kind of airspace as controller, not based on accepted wisdom or what they learned in flight school or what they feel a perusal of the FAR's, AIM, and JO 7400 would indicate. If all your flying has been IFR for the last 20 years, you might not be the best person to answer this question.
If you are answering as a controller with hands-on experience in this situation, please say so. Likewise if you are answering a pilot with hands-on experience in this situation.
Likewise I'd really appreciate any pointers to any form of specific written answer or guidance on this question from the FAA, regardless of whether it's just a publication from a FSDO or a Memorandum or an actual legal interpretation, whatever. Something actually in print. Something other than any of the FAR's, the AIM, or JO 7400 -- I've already looked at those extensively. I'm looking for something that doesn't make me try to interpret the meaning of "the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport."
I guess I'll add one more part here. If a controller wants to authorize a pilot to exercise special VFR in the dashed magenta CIRCLE around KTVL (Lake Tahoe-- see VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts (http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=38.894&lon=-119.995&zoom=10) ) , is saying something like "cleared for SVFR in the Lake Tahoe Surface Area" enough to unambiguously designated that you are talking about the dashed magenta circle and not the dashed magenta rectangle? Yes/ No? And what's an example of the language that you would ACTUALLY use in such a case, to refer to the airspace above the ground surface within the dashed magenta circle? I guess I'm trying to figure out how much meaning is packed into the phrase "Surface Area" and whether or not it clearly excludes the Class-E-to-surface airspace above the portion of the earth's surface that lies within the dashed magenta rectangle.
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
S
Can a controller clear a pilot to enter a Class-E-to-surface "extension" ( example-- outside KTVL-- Lake Tahoe-- VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts (http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=38.894&lon=-119.995&zoom=10) -- the area within the dashed magenta rectangle, not the dashed magenta circle ) under SVFR, when the pilot cannot maintain standard Class E visibility and cloud clearance minimums at that location? If so, is it legal for a pilot to operate in such a manner?
The point isn't whether the "extension" abuts Class-E-to-surface surrounding the airport or Class D or C surrounding the airport, it doesn't matter. It's the same question in all cases-- it's what happens in the "extension" that I'm interested in.
I'm looking people for who really feel they know the answer based on actual personal experience as a pilot w/ ATC personnel accepting or denying such requests, or actual experiences working this kind of airspace as controller, not based on accepted wisdom or what they learned in flight school or what they feel a perusal of the FAR's, AIM, and JO 7400 would indicate. If all your flying has been IFR for the last 20 years, you might not be the best person to answer this question.
If you are answering as a controller with hands-on experience in this situation, please say so. Likewise if you are answering a pilot with hands-on experience in this situation.
Likewise I'd really appreciate any pointers to any form of specific written answer or guidance on this question from the FAA, regardless of whether it's just a publication from a FSDO or a Memorandum or an actual legal interpretation, whatever. Something actually in print. Something other than any of the FAR's, the AIM, or JO 7400 -- I've already looked at those extensively. I'm looking for something that doesn't make me try to interpret the meaning of "the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport."
I guess I'll add one more part here. If a controller wants to authorize a pilot to exercise special VFR in the dashed magenta CIRCLE around KTVL (Lake Tahoe-- see VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts (http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=38.894&lon=-119.995&zoom=10) ) , is saying something like "cleared for SVFR in the Lake Tahoe Surface Area" enough to unambiguously designated that you are talking about the dashed magenta circle and not the dashed magenta rectangle? Yes/ No? And what's an example of the language that you would ACTUALLY use in such a case, to refer to the airspace above the ground surface within the dashed magenta circle? I guess I'm trying to figure out how much meaning is packed into the phrase "Surface Area" and whether or not it clearly excludes the Class-E-to-surface airspace above the portion of the earth's surface that lies within the dashed magenta rectangle.
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
S