View Full Version : Greenville,SC Falcon 50 crash
https://www.ksn.com/news/national-world/plane-crash-at-south-carolina-airport-injuries-reported/1479840855
Newforest2
27th Sep 2018, 20:24
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=2157
R.I.P.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=215746
McGinty
27th Sep 2018, 22:36
The Daily Mail is reporting that the two pilots have died in a landing overrun accident at Greenville, South Carolina. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6216289/Two-dead-South-Carolina-private-jet-crash.html
Jet Jockey A4
28th Sep 2018, 03:41
Very sad outcome... The two pilots are dead and the 2 pax are in critical condition... More pictures...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6216289/Two-dead-South-Carolina-private-jet-crash.html
DaveReidUK
28th Sep 2018, 07:05
Aircraft appears to have gone off the end of Rwy 19 at KGMU and over the embankment (most likely becoming airborne again in the process, judging from the damage) before coming down on the airport perimeter road adjacent to the (just visible) approach lights.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/903x616/kgmu_19_overrun_d86514512688323b2f4c169dabc8bb12fc0bcae4.jpg
Not a good place to overrun ...
PEI_3721
28th Sep 2018, 08:47
Looks like an overrun from a landing on 19. Weather ?
Does 01 have EMAS in the overrun area ?
Fortissimo
28th Sep 2018, 09:12
Or undershoot ...
340drvr
28th Sep 2018, 12:11
Looks like an overrun from a landing on 19. Weather ?
Does 01 have EMAS in the overrun area ?
Yes, EMAS on the other end, runway 1. Weather was not bad, winds slightly favoring Rwy 19, and maybe 1200 foot overcast at worst all day.
rickseeman
28th Sep 2018, 14:48
If you run off the end of a runway in a Falcon it's not going to make you look good. A Falcon 50 will land about as short as a helicopter.
WingNut60
28th Sep 2018, 23:47
Saw an interview with what looked like an reliable witness (yeah, I know) who said that the landing seemed perfectly normal but the aircraft just didn;t seem to slow down.
Jet Jockey A4
29th Sep 2018, 01:21
From another aviation site... Shocking if true but then I'm not surprised at some part 91 operations in the USA.
I'm not sure where they got their information from...
"I think the biggest head scratching part of this, is the credentials of the crew:
SIC is a PPL with Multi Rating no instrument rating, no type rating
PIC reportedly had an SIC rating only on the Da50
It appears as though the flight was a charter part 135 but the SIC is the owner of the airplane so part 91’d it. I think this accident might be a game changer in the exposure of a lack of oversight by the FAA of Part 91 operations and the credentials required to be flying biz jets.
A sad day, but from seeing how some of these 91 operators go, its an inevitability for some."
Sikpilot
29th Sep 2018, 04:11
From another aviation site... Shocking if true but then I'm not surprised at some part 91 operations in the USA.
I'm not sure where they got their information from...
"I think the biggest head scratching part of this, is the credentials of the crew:
SIC is a PPL with Multi Rating no instrument rating, no type rating
PIC reportedly had an SIC rating only on the Da50
It appears as though the flight was a charter part 135 but the SIC is the owner of the airplane so part 91’d it. I think this accident might be a game changer in the exposure of a lack of oversight by the FAA of Part 91 operations and the credentials required to be flying biz jets.
A sad day, but from seeing how some of these 91 operators go, its an inevitability for some."
Link please to that info
Old Boeing Driver
29th Sep 2018, 14:36
Here is the link to where the coroner identifies both pilots https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2018/09/27/plane-crash-reported-near-greenville-downtown-airport-injuries-reported/1444821002/
The (https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2018/09/27/plane-crash-reported-near-greenville-downtown-airport-injuries-reported/1444821002/The)coroner identified the pilot who does hold an ATP, but only has SIC privileges for the DA-50 (FAA Database)
The coroner identified the copilot who does hold a Private certificate ASEL and AMEL. (FAA Database)
rickseeman
29th Sep 2018, 17:06
WOW to say the least.
fleigle
29th Sep 2018, 18:26
Well, if the Owner was onboard then Darwin Rules worked, it is unfortunately tragic for everybody else.
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His dudeness
29th Sep 2018, 18:42
No experience with the FAA database whatsoever, how often/quickly is the database updated ? Suppose the dude was on the sim, say 3 weeks ago, would that be shown in the DB already ?
Old Boeing Driver
29th Sep 2018, 19:23
No experience with the FAA database whatsoever, how often/quickly is the database updated ? Suppose the dude was on the sim, say 3 weeks ago, would that be shown in the DB already ?
Do not know how quickly or often the DB may be updated.
I would hope that he had completed a type course and the info is old. Same for the private pilot, non instrument rated copilot.
Follow up. According to the FAA, they are updated monthly.
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/releasable_airmen_download/
" We update these files monthly. The records in each database file are stored in either fixed length ASCII text format (TXT) or comma-delimited text format (CSV) which is already separated into airmen basic records and certificate records. Both formats can be manipulated by common database applications such as MS Access. "
Airbubba
29th Sep 2018, 19:45
I get the impression that this sort of thing is not uncommon in general aviation. Airline pilots occasionally get their tickets pulled for lying on the medical and other things but I would be hard pressed to think of a case in recent memory where an airline pilot flew in the U.S, without a license or with a phony license. Years ago PBA and the Van Arsedale's got caught pencil whipping type ratings and flying a YS-11 without a license, has there been a major case come to light since then?
From a crash earlier this month:
Surprising Details Emerge From Sunday’s Cessna 335 CrashNo one aboard the aircraft held a pilot’s certificate.
By Rob Mark (https://www.flyingmag.com/authors/rob-mark) September 13, 2018
A twin-engine Cessna 335 crashed last Sunday about 10:40 a.m. local time as it approached Florida’s Palm Beach County Park/Lantana Airport. The 335 is an unpressurized version of Cessna's once-popular Cessna 340.
The pilot was last heard on a common traffic advisory frequency indicating he was making his turn to base leg for landing on runway 16. A few seconds later, the airplane hit the ground a mile northeast of the airport and was destroyed by a post-crash fire that claimed the lives of the two people aboard, pilot Philip Castronova and his wife Mandy. Weather at the time of the accident was reported as good visibility with light winds from the southwest.
As if digging into the cause of the accident was not going to be tough enough for investigators since the aircraft most likely was not carrying a flight data recorder, nor would it have been required to under Part 91, but a reporter for the Palm Beach Post, Alexandra Seltzer, received a tip from an unnamed pilot (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/video-shows-plane-fire-john-prince-park/ApgHExVnNDfLb3icohFfxH/) about the status of Castronova’s pilot certificate. Following the lead, Steltzer learned that Philip Castronova’s did not hold a valid pilot certificate. In fact, the FAA reported Castronova’s certificate had been revoked in September 1997, for making fraudulent or intentionally false statements on his application for a medical certificate.
The final data point recorded for the accident on Flight Aware indicated the aircraft was 400 feet above the ground flying at 117 knots, but with a vertical descent rate of nearly 1,000 fpm.
https://www.flyingmag.com/palm-beach-florida-cessna-crash-details
Old Boeing Driver
29th Sep 2018, 20:05
I get the impression that this sort of thing is not uncommon in general aviation. Airline pilots occasionally get their tickets pulled for lying on the medical and other things but I would be hard pressed to think of a case in recent memory where an airline pilot flew in the U.S, without a license or with a phony license. Years ago PBA and the Van Arsedale's got caught pencil whipping type ratings and flying a YS-11 without a license, has there been a major case come to light since then?
From a crash earlier this month:
https://www.flyingmag.com/palm-beach-florida-cessna-crash-details
Might be happening more often in smaller GA aircraft, but I would think rare in these types. Especially in a corporate environment. I would like to hear what the insurance company has to say. BTW...Roll Tide
No experience with the FAA database whatsoever, how often/quickly is the database updated ? Suppose the dude was on the sim, say 3 weeks ago, would that be shown in the DB already ?
I recently did a type rating and ATP check ride; they took around four weeks to show on the database [edit to add] however thanks to the wonder that is IACRA, I would have thought the fact of his having passed a type rating would be immediately available to those compiling a report in such circumstances.
Zeffy
30th Sep 2018, 14:29
The captain's medical date is shown in the FAA database as Aug 2018:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/706x717/screen_20shot_202018_09_29_20at_201_24_56_20pm_zpsc2o67dhu_b 4e5688328b7b4404a02aa32210fd4f6bec5d1f8.png
Copilot - note the absence of an IFR rating:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/697x592/screen_20shot_202018_09_29_20at_201_21_27_20pm_zpssyijpzs5_9 267529c7ced77749b5fd3dd56d22b6c5cbf0503.png
jimtx
30th Sep 2018, 15:00
Would the co-pilot need an instrument rating if the flight was under part 91?
rickseeman
30th Sep 2018, 18:50
Yes, if they were on an instrument flight plan.
Zeffy
30th Sep 2018, 20:19
Air America Flight Services (http://www.aafsww.com/index.html)
We offer Charter, Maintenance, Management and acquisition services in order to have the capabilities to encompass all of the needs of our customers.
The FAA ATPL implicitly includes an Instrument Rating. A separate IR is not shown on the license.
The FAA ATPL implicitly includes an Instrument Rating. A separate IR is not shown on the license.
Yes, of course.
However that is not the case for an FAA PPL - apparently held by the copilot.
The copilot is not PIC, so doesn't need an Instrument Rating. (of course, the pilot isn't rated to be PIC either, but that's part of the problem)
twincommander
1st Oct 2018, 03:04
Apparently the pilot had the rating the copilot should have had - DA50 SIC privileges only. Note this was a early aircraft, serial number 17 and probably not worth more than a few hundred thousand dollars. There has to be more to this sad story.
Old Boeing Driver
1st Oct 2018, 12:56
The copilot is not PIC, so doesn't need an Instrument Rating. (of course, the pilot isn't rated to be PIC either, but that's part of the problem)§ 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.(a) A person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=8e9caab04f792d93d0738c9d3290164e&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d3d24a831020443b5f202a681f24e446&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d3d24a831020443b5f202a681f24e446&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) only if that person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) holds:(1) At least a private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e04dbe216da194fe7f0e9b20dcdc53a&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55); and(2) An instrument (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=7fe5a7765bc41dd93adc4e9d5f03ea31&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) rating (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e04dbe216da194fe7f0e9b20dcdc53a&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) or privilege that applies to the aircraft (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=8e9caab04f792d93d0738c9d3290164e&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) being flown if the flight is under IFR (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=aef75d49cf54626e1b3a7819cb1d0c1c&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55); and(3) At least a pilot type rating (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e04dbe216da194fe7f0e9b20dcdc53a&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) for the aircraft (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=8e9caab04f792d93d0738c9d3290164e&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) being flown unless the flight will be conducted as domestic flight operations within the United States (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=dec2d7b6c1dac5215137688ab8df200c&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.55) airspace.
twincommander
1st Oct 2018, 14:53
About time someone pulled up 61.55. Also note that the aircraft was RVSM approved and thus operating at the upper flight levels.
filejw
2nd Oct 2018, 02:53
https://www.wspa.com/news/new-details-in-fatal-jet-crash-at-downtown-greenville-airport/1490880802
This should confirm some of the above speculation. Who needs a license 🤓
That WSPA article has been updated and no longer has any reference to the pilots' qualifications.
vee1-rotate
3rd Oct 2018, 00:07
Might be worth noting (1st hand knowledge), the PIC was fired from a a G-1159 job a few years back when CP found out he had lied about his hours and experience...
Old Boeing Driver
3rd Oct 2018, 01:06
Here's a video of the actual crash. He was going pretty fast off the end.
https://www.wyff4.com/article/exclusive-video-shows-deadly-jet-crash-at-greenville-downtown-airport/23570549
Here's a video of the actual crash. He was going pretty fast off the end.
https://www.wyff4.com/article/exclusive-video-shows-deadly-jet-crash-at-greenville-downtown-airport/23570549..Appears to be trailing smoke also, as they go off the end..
Unfortunately the wyff4 video is not available in UK.
LiveLeak version for interested parties this side of the pond: Greenville FA-50 crash - LiveLeak (http://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9GBAu_1538515079)
Old Boeing Driver
3rd Oct 2018, 13:41
..Appears to be trailing smoke also, as they go off the end..
Just after the video starts, there is a flash under the wing. They may have used the emergency brake, which has no anti-skid.
I think it had an FDR and VR installed.
Hawker 800
4th Oct 2018, 06:41
Just after the video starts, there is a flash under the wing. They may have used the emergency brake, which has no anti-skid.
I think it had an FDR and VR installed.
I think the flash was the wingtip making contact with the runway.
pilotbear
5th Oct 2018, 06:56
Seems to be about 40kts too fast to me ON the runway. And regarding 91/135? If you knew the truth about what goes on in these organisations you would live in a bunker undergound. There are NOT enough FAA inspectors or FISDO to cope. Each inspector has many, many organisations to oversee and favors are rife to decrease the workload...Sorry, but it is completely true so don't come back with your whinging.
Seems to be about 40kts too fast to me ON the runway. And regarding 91/135? If you knew the truth about what goes on in these organisations you would live in a bunker undergound. There are NOT enough FAA inspectors or FISDO to cope. Each inspector has many, many organisations to oversee and favors are rife to decrease the workload...Sorry, but it is completely true so don't come back with your whinging.
Apparently it was Part 91, unless the pax say different. ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20180927X41915&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
Old Boeing Driver
6th Oct 2018, 00:11
Follow up.
Anti skid placarded INOP. Fire handles pulled, but engines ran for a long time.
NTSB https://media.wspa.com/nxs-wspatv-media-us-east-1/document_dev/2018/10/05/NTSB%20Greenville%20prelim%20report_1538773108765_58014969_v er1.0.pdf
https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/greenville/2018/10/05/greenville-plane-crash-ntsb-report/1536494002/
https://www.wyff4.com/article/ntsb-releases-preliminary-report-on-deadly-greenville-jet-crash/23622677
Jet Jockey A4
6th Oct 2018, 00:25
Very strange that if the fire handles for #2 and #3 engines were pulled that those engines apparently ran at full power for 20 minutes after the crash and #1 ran for 40 minutes!?
Perhaps the fire/rescue team pulled the two fire handles?
Also I would think that planing a flight into a rather small airport with a not so long runway with an inoperative anti skid system was perhaps not a wise idea.
jack11111
6th Oct 2018, 01:17
Is it true or not that after you pull fire handles you must turn them and hold for several seconds? And would non-pilot rescue people know this?
And would a cockpit separated from body, the controls still function?
Jet Jockey A4
6th Oct 2018, 03:31
Is it true or not that after you pull fire handles you must turn them and hold for several seconds? And would non-pilot rescue people know this?
And would a cockpit separated from body, the controls still function?
I don't know the Falcon 50 but on my aircraft, pulling the fire handle not only shut down the engine by closing the fuel valve, it also closes the hydraulic valve, the bleed valves, shuts off the generators and arms the fire bottle squids.
If you then proceed to turn the fire handle the fire extinguishing agent is then released in that engine.
Global_Global
6th Oct 2018, 11:00
Fire handles pulled, but engines ran for a long time. Well with the cockpit separated from the fuselage I am not surprised if some systems didnt work..
And regarding 91/135? If you knew the truth about what goes on in these organisations you would live in a bunker undergound. Combination of a growing market while there is a growing shortage means that it is getting scary out there... Fully agree :ooh:
Mizuno boy
6th Oct 2018, 14:06
Falcon 50 only requires a pull of the fire handles,(fuel shut off), no turning, separate switch to fire the bottles. If you shut down the engines via the fire bottles, not the fuel shut off levers on the power levers, it takes 20-30 seconds for the engines to deplete the fuel lines and shut down normally.
Cheers MB
Mizuno boy
6th Oct 2018, 21:58
Sorry, I meant if you shut down the engines via the fire handles, not the fire bottles.
Cheers
2016parks
7th Oct 2018, 23:14
You’d think a car would give better protection in a crash than an aircraft, but not always. In New York State today a stretched limousine ran an intersection at high speed, went over an embankment, and crashed into a restaurant parking lot. Two pedestrians in the lot were killed, and all eighteen (that’s right, eighteen) passengers in the limo are dead. My guess is that the brakes worked but the driver didn’t.https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/article/20-killed-in-Schoharie-limousine-crash-13288015.php
Zeffy
10th Jun 2020, 10:50
NTSB Final (https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20180927X41915&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA)
NTSB Docket (https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=63763)
Jet Jockey A4
10th Jun 2020, 11:14
Not much to say... Total Mickey Mouse operation.
Yeah that’s a Florida 134.5 for you.
Anybody pursuing criminal charges against the owner/operator ?
what next
10th Jun 2020, 19:11
.Anybody pursuing criminal charges against the owner/operator ?
Let's hope so. Nobody involved in this operation should be allowed to come within a mile of an aeroplane ever again.
Absolutely incredible. Paying passengers transported on an aircraft with over 100 known malfunctions, including the brakes. Flown by a crew composed of a "captain" with an SIC typerating only and a co-pilot with a PPL and no instrument rating. One could immediately ask: How is that possible in a country like the United States? But then the accident of D-CMMM in Denmark (https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2012/20120915-0_LJ24_D-CMMM.pdf) comes to mind where a Learjet crashed in Denmark. So it shows again that all rules and regulations are only as good as the people who supervise them.
The real scary thought is how many times this happens and how how often an accident is averted....just barely.
EatMyShorts!
11th Jun 2020, 09:58
The question rather is how often non-qualified crew operate commercial aircraft that are technically unfit to fly, but nothing happens and nobody investigates. I'd guess that there is a huge number of such flights being operated and those operators who stick to the rules are being checked all the time...
His dudeness
11th Jun 2020, 18:42
I'd guess that there is a huge number of such flights being operated and those operators who stick to the rules are being checked all the time...
Hmmm, everytime I was checked by the SAFA dudes, they checked others as well. I have heard also a lot about what the findings by SAFA checkers are, but none ever told me "we pulled a dude without the required licence/rating/medical off a jet the other day". not that this would mean anything, but I personally wouldn´t like to risk it. Hell, I sweated heavily when I discovered that I left my medical at home once - and to get access to a copie isnt that hard. OTOH I´m sort of a pussy, I would not dare to fly an A/C as Captain for which I hold a SIC rating only...
BizJetJock
12th Jun 2020, 10:30
His Dudeness,
Europe is different! I have had many SAFA checks over the years since the system was introduced. But in the rest of the world it is very rare. I have never been ramp checked in the US; indeed the only place outside Europe I have been ramp checked was Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And he was looking for a very specific piece of paper!
atr-drivr
12th Jun 2020, 12:27
His Dudeness,
Europe is different! I have had many SAFA checks over the years since the system was introduced. But in the rest of the world it is very rare. I have never been ramp checked in the US; indeed the only place outside Europe I have been ramp checked was Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And he was looking for a very specific piece of paper!
Did it happen to be green?
BizJetJock
12th Jun 2020, 13:29
Funny you should ask that... yes.
His dudeness
12th Jun 2020, 19:16
Europe is different! Yeah it is. But EMS´s location is Germany so I assumed....
Never been ramp checked in Africa either and flew only a few flights to/from the states...
EatMyShorts!
12th Jun 2020, 22:24
Sure, I am talking globally, because that's where many operate. The infamous dude who flew his Learjet from the Berlin area to this Swedish island was a big case and probably only the tip of the iceberg. Remember Icon, the flight school? If I am not mistaken even Air Hamburg got busted for "creative duty hour recording". And this is just Germany.
atr-drivr
13th Jun 2020, 00:15
Funny you should ask that... yes.
Yes.....I remember days in Africa like that......
His dudeness
13th Jun 2020, 10:04
Sure, I am talking globally, because that's where many operate. The infamous dude who flew his Learjet from the Berlin area to this Swedish island was a big case and probably only the tip of the iceberg. Remember Icon, the flight school? If I am not mistaken even Air Hamburg got busted for "creative duty hour recording". And this is just Germany.
I remember IKON, yes, actually went there for my ATPL & LR.That was only theoretical stuff though, and I have to say the school was at least okay. Not really a connection IMO, as the case that brought them down was partly out of control of the school IIRC. It took the swiss BAZL to spot obvious falsifications to get that one "going"... Air Hamburg ? Say what ? Don´t know what happened there, but you surely don´t want to compare FDT issues with not being type rated ? Whilst NOT trying to promote FDT ignorance, I do see a distinct difference there. And to be honest, we´re mixing up a lot now, Air Hamburg and IKON are/were commercial enterprises, the acc.aircraft too but the "gentleman" in the Lear might have pretended to be "commercial" but was not.
OTOH why would you expect Aviation to be much different from the rest of business ? E.g. all the ragged Sprinters/Ducatos etc with Bulgarian, Romanian or Polish number plates I see on the german Autobahn hauling goods commercially, you think there are not at least as many "black sheep" there as in aviation ?
The funny thing though is, that an honest mistake in a solid operator will cost them dearly, were as the same for a shady operation is not true...
Yes.....I remember days in Africa like that......
Did you ever meet the bloke at Luxor in the 80s that "stood guard" on you aircraft while it was refuelled?
The weapon that he carried looked menacing, especially when he stood at the door asking for little bits of green stuff.
Klimax
26th Jul 2020, 19:12
Sure, I am talking globally, because that's where many operate. The infamous dude who flew his Learjet from the Berlin area to this Swedish island was a big case and probably only the tip of the iceberg. Remember Icon, the flight school? If I am not mistaken even Air Hamburg got busted for "creative duty hour recording". And this is just Germany.
Swedish Island? Not that it matters much, but I thought it was Bornholm - which is a Danish Island, last time I checked.
EatMyShorts!
27th Jul 2020, 15:59
North of Germany it's all the same :D