View Full Version : Astronauts criticise "First Man" movie
Chris Scott
4th Sep 2018, 14:27
Fellow astronauts and pilots, as well as Republican politicians, have criticised Hollywood's seventy-million-dollar depiction of the first Moon landing, which fails to show Neil Armstrong and "Buzz" Aldrin planting the US flag. Others have described the "First Man" movie as "anti-American." At the Venice film festival, Ryan Gosling, who plays Armstrong in the film, ignited controversy by describing the American achievement as "transcending countries and borders."
The story has been running in the US for several days, but here is a summary in The Daily Telegraph (London):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/03/buzz-aldrin-says-proud-american-first-man-movie-leaves-us-flag/
Innominate
4th Sep 2018, 17:02
Perhaps those who feel it's anti-American should be reminded that a plaque on the Lander states Here men from the planet Earth first set foot upon the Moon, July 1969 A.D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini). We came in peace for all mankind . This is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_plaque which points out that the statement "We came in peace for all mankind" is derived from the 1958 National Aeronautics and Space Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Aeronautics_and_Space_Act)'s "declaration of policy and purpose": 'The Congress hereby declares that it is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'
Which bit of "all" do they not understand?
I thought the Saturn V rocket was designed by a German
Lantern10
5th Sep 2018, 06:08
These days people whinge about absolutely everything.
Makes them feel important I guess.
What other reason could there be?
teeteringhead
5th Sep 2018, 08:53
Did they change "July 1969 AD" to the more politically correct "July 1969 CE"?
I'm sure they would have wanted to........
Chris Scott
5th Sep 2018, 15:06
I thought the Saturn V rocket was designed by a German
Yes, although by the 1960s when he was working on the Saturn project, Wehrner von Braun may have regarded himself as a first-generation American, having emigrated there in 1946. After all, the vast majority of Americans today are the descendants of immigrants during the last couple of centuries.
In case anyone here has not looked at the specification and performance of the Saturn V, it is truly astonishing - still the most powerful vehicle ever created:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V
treadigraph
5th Sep 2018, 15:30
I believe the Saturn V made the loudest sustained sound created by mankind. Even The Who pale into insignificance in comparison... :)
If you haven't read it, Carrying the Fire by Mike Collins is a terrific account of the Apollo Program.
I will get this film when it's out on DVD and gets cheap - I suspect I'll be disappointed though.
Oh dear oh dear. Snowflakes are on a mission. After the number of US flags that appeared in Armageddon,this will restore the balalnce.
Ah..”Fun with Flags”...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl12Sp1KiEk
Joking aside and never mind the the new Apollo film, there really is at least one academic paper on the subject of the Apollo flags here:
https://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/flag/flag.htm
As can be seen the whole subject was both from a political and and engineering POV “non-trivial”.
FWIW as for today...
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloFlags-Condition.html
.
https://phys.org/news/2012-07-flags-apollo-sites-moon.html
Gipsy Queen
5th Sep 2018, 21:31
I believe the Saturn V made the loudest sustained sound created by mankind. Even The Who pale into insignificance in comparison... :)
If you haven't read it, Carrying the Fire by Mike Collins is a terrific account of the Apollo Program.
I will get this film when it's out on DVD and gets cheap - I suspect I'll be disappointed though.
The Who only got from Soho down to Brighton. We could hear this thunderous device from Cape Canaveral down to Fort Lauderdale, 195 miles away.
And why the hell shouldn't Americans be proud of this fantastic achievement? I'm not American but I feel privileged to have had a few of my tax dollars invested in this magnificent enterprise. And why is it that so much attention is given to these worthless snowflakes who have achieved nothing?
Genghis the Engineer
7th Sep 2018, 11:34
I've followed a bit of the controversy, and do think it's basically nationalist snowflakes.
It surely shows Americans landing on the Moon, through American efforts. AIUI, they do show the flag in the background in several shots. Not showing the specific moment where they plant the flag is neither here nor there to the overall story.
G
climber314
7th Sep 2018, 23:05
Snowflakes?
Urban Dictionary: Snowflake (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake)
Overly patriotic perhaps, but the "snowflakes" over here are not the ones bemoaning this issue.
Much the opposite.
Chris Scott
8th Sep 2018, 10:44
Snowflakes?
Urban Dictionary: Snowflake (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake)
Overly patriotic perhaps, but the "snowflakes" over here are not the ones bemoaning this issue.
Much the opposite.
Yes, I was equally puzzled. Over this side of the pond, the term "snowflake" in this context is generally applied to youngsters of the so-called millennial generation (whatever that means) who have led an excessively sheltered life, encouraged by state-enforced political-correctness and 'elf & safety.
Don't think either Buzz Aldrin or Chuck Yeager fit that description. I would have been less surprised if they and the Republican politicians criticising the movie had been labelled as jingoists, although IMO that would be inaccurate. Much of the rancour seems to have been provoked by comments relating to the movie, rather than the movie itself.
FlightlessParrot
9th Sep 2018, 00:46
Snowflakes?
Urban Dictionary: Snowflake (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake)
Overly patriotic perhaps, but the "snowflakes" over here are not the ones bemoaning this issue.
Much the opposite.
I think you might have missed the ironic counter-application of the term. It's quite common.
climber314
10th Sep 2018, 22:08
I think you might have missed the ironic counter-application of the term. It's quite common.
Apparently... it went right over my head!? :rolleyes:
THIS British Humor: Actually FUNNY!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/500x626/tumblr_mqifciutwf1qc465io2_500_d8b619d4139b082d482cd692efaff 846faa4495b.jpg
The previously posted Ironic Counter-Intuitive snowflake BALDERDASH: Not so much!
teeteringhead
11th Sep 2018, 12:17
Yes, although by the 1960s when he was working on the Saturn project, Wehrner von Braun may have regarded himself as a first-generation American, having emigrated there in 1946. But still German when working on some of his earlier rockets......
When his biopic was made (early 60s?), I fondly recall a graffito on an advert for it in IIRC, Oxford Circus Tube Station.
Under the film's title "I Aim at the Stars" was scrawled ".... but sometimes I hit London!"