Asbestos on Sea King

[dragartist]

So where is the asbestos in Sea King?
Did we not run a programme in 1999 to identify and “manage” the issue across the board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45313394

I can’t imagine the issue is confined to Sea King.

[glad rag]

Whilst I wouldn't belittle the hazard, it is relatively small scale compared to the amount of beryllium and cadmium certain aircraft have in their structure...

[[email protected]]

So where is the asbestos in Sea King? my guess would be the soundproofing matting.

[Lomon]

Are there many (any) still in service?

[diginagain]

Word on the street suggests that the issue may extend to the Lynx fleet too.

[Davef68]

Are there many (any) still in service?

ASAC 7 plus two HAS on loan to Heli-Service. Although the ASAC out of service date must be soon

[tucumseh]

Did we not run a programme in 1999 to identify and “manage” the issue across the board.

Certainly in about 1989, for COSHH regs and Montreal Protocol.

Glad Rag is right. Cadmium and Beryllium. Told we must be joking if we thought funding would be available to replace it.

My old Admiral succumbed in his 70s, having had a single asbestos exposure on a ship when a sprog.

I'll let you know if I get a compo cheque.

[Flickhammer]

Thank God the pilots are ok. Did my time on the mighty S king and before that the Wessex, I imagine they were ok or they would have told us,....... Wouldn't they?

[India Four Two]

Are there many (any) still in service?

Canada still has a fleet of 24 CH-124 Sea Kings. The last one is due to retire in December this year, but the RCN is trying to sell them on to another operator!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sea-kings-maintained-1.4796714

[Compass Call]

Most of the seals in old aircraft hot air systems in and around engines and air conditioning are asbestos/metal sandwich.
There is a danger of asbestos contamination when replacing them.
Don't know when their use was stopped.

[Exrigger]

The link shows other asbestos uses in aircraft and following the links at the bottom of the page, there are a lot of industries that utilised asbestos:

https://www.asbestos.net/occupations/aircraft-mechanics/

[Martin the Martian]

ASAC 7 plus two HAS on loan to Heli-Service. Although the ASAC out of service date must be soon

849 due to fly their last operational sorties on 26 September, so I hear.

[polecat2]

Weren't the exhaust shrouds fitted to the NI based Wessexes made of asbestos?

[BluSdUp]

The dust and the fine particles of asbestos is what potentially can cause lung cancer.
Any contained asbestos can not harm you.

Here in Norway corrugated asbestos cement roof tiles and wall panels was super popular from the 50s until into the 80s.
We have a hunting cabin covered with the stuff.
I also had the honor to be the handyman when my Uncle expanded his henhouse from 100 square meter to 200 in the 70s.
The local carpenter was at times total IMC with his grinder cutting the roof panels , only emerging ever so often for a smoke!!

Renovating a house with this kind of roof now , require a major HAZMAT team , and is costing You your shirt.
Anyway
I think asbestos is rather low on the TEM list everyone love to wave about .
Specially at SAR with helicopters from the 60s.
Damd good bird, mind u !

You all stay safe now!
Regards
Cpt B



,

[dragartist]

Reply to Compass Call:
Yes that’s what I recall. I was careful in my choice of words in my original post as back in 99 when I worked in SM27 the original directive of “identity and manage” had been corrupted into “removal” while the stuff was sandwiched between two flanges no one was exposed. One case in point was some gasket on the VC10 APU. Certainly not effective to send them through maintence but to dispose of the whole assembly as Hazardous waste when the jets were scrapped.

Did a bit of work on Sea King up the tail boom and under the cabin floor laying in some cables for Omega and RWR back in 1982. I do hope I was not exposed. I can’t remember ever cutting holes in any trim blankets but may have done.

So far as I remember the only exposure I was aware of was wrapping some hot air pipes in a Canberra PR9 camera bay with asbestos woven tape which was fixed in place with locking wire. My locking wire skills were not up to much and I had to do it again. Each time the braided tape became more fluffy. I think some time (quite a few years) after this we were all given forms to fill in. I entered this on my form.

We all knew cadmium was an issue with all steel bits being plated. I do remember a change for some bits where, in the parachuting world we were able to issue concessions to have bits being made to old drawings zinc plated. There was a lot of folks who thought stainless was preferable but did not get the potential difference scketch when in contact with aluminium. Yak s#1t jointing Compound JC5A was not in common parlance in those areas. My understanding in the day that the hazard was in the processing of cad plating not the finished articles. I know the in house facilities were slowly shut down and any plating had to go out to Contractors.

The one thing that grabbed my attention in the Daily Fail article was that the contents of the internal memo were “Secret” and not to be shared outside of MoD. Well the cat is out of the bag now. Is this a further example of an MoD cover up? I get the point that they don’t want to spread alarm. But....

[esa-aardvark]

Had a friend who died recently of Mesathioloma (asbestos related), I am a bit sensitive
to this. Diagnosis to death less than 2 years. Lots of people have looked at my lungs so I suppose
I am Ok, but still 24 years working together ?

[Just This Once...]

Pretty much everyone who worked on C-130K will have come into contact with asbestos, especially as the aircraft aged. Conditioning packs, windblast and vibration are not good bedfellows for asbestos fibres. More like an asbestos snow globe.

Still, probably more threat from the damaged facilities we have all occupied in the Balkans / Africa / Gulf etc.

[Magnetic]

Ex Seaking Mech here. I made this prune account because I am interested in finding out where it was.

I dread to think it was either the drip tray, sound panel bags, tail thermal barrier or honeycomb walkway as these were always ripped and/or smashed to bits but since they are not concerned with flying crew I doubt it was. If it was these loads of people would be coming down with the illness. I'd also be a bit worried if anyone said it was inside the engine door lining as yet again this was getting ripped apart when the door latched jammed and loads of people exposed. If it was brakes or another specific component then exposure is gonna be pretty limited to dudes ripping em out. Cabin heating and bleed air gaskets would be pretty bad too.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Lightning and many other aircraft blankets (heat shrouds over bleed air) full of the stuff. Surprised it has taken this long to come to light

[NutLoose]

Thank God the pilots are ok. Did my time on the mighty S king and before that the Wessex, I imagine they were ok or they would have told us,....... Wouldn't they?


Involves crews as well that may have done flight servicing

2018DIN06-025 refers

[megan]

Worked in ship building as a youngster and after the laggers had finished their work in the engine room lagging pipes various asbestos was an inch or so deep covering absolutely everything, had to brush it off onto the deck to be able to work on your relevant piece of equipment. A few succumbed to mesothelioma in their latter years, but given the exposure I am surprised at the low number given the status the product now has.

[Oldlae]

Dragartist, the engine covers on the Canberras had asbestos linings.

[glad rag]

I wonder what the lining of Tornado engine exhaust covers are made of??

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I'm pretty certain that Vulcan jet pipes were lagged with Refrasil, asbestos free. I thought that was in common usage. https://www.sglgroup.com/cms/international/products/product-groups/cm/refrasil/index.html?__locale=en

[dragartist]

Hi Glad Rag, I cant tell you what the RB199 bits are made from but I feel confident enough to tell you that it will be known and recorded. I believe the Engine team under DD6 were ahead of the game in this respect. I shall be seeing the then EA for RB199 in a couple of months. He is giving a lecture on P8 to RAeS at Cambridge. He went on to do greater things.

it is this headline that has disturbed me somewhat having spent many months collating information and plans back in 1998/9 to find that 20 years later Sea King appears to have fallen through the cracks.

That period of my life informed me on many things. Even in my current work I stop work to investigate possible asbestos finds in civil engineering. A few months ago I found some fibre reinforced concrete cable ducts. The fibres turned out to be glass. I did not realise Asbestos is found in some masonary paint. Can’t be too careful.

[rugmuncher]

Word on the street suggests that the issue may extend to the Lynx fleet too.

The Lynx had issues with the blower motor impellers behind the pedals. They were made from Asbestos.

[Shaft109]

I'm quite surprised it stayed in common use long after the UK realised in 1906 that Asbestos was dangerous.

DOes anyone know which type it was?

Chrysotile, Amosite or Crocidolite ? (White, Brown and Blue respectively)

Although not belittling the exposure in any quantity the Australians are still dealing with this places' legacy - I think they've currently identified 5 discreet 'waves'

1. Miners
2. Millers
3. Housewives / children
4. Product workers further down the line
5. People exposed in DiY renovations.

https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/worksafe/wittenoom-images

And they are yet to see the peak incidence of Mesothelioma.

[NutLoose]

I did not realise Asbestos is found in some masonary paint. Can’t be too careful.


My hangar is painted in the stuff, the roof is also made of it.

[KPax]

We were moved out of the COC at Bruggen in the mid 70's (1978) so they could remove the Asbestos lining. We were given chest X Rays for 10 years to check, very novel working out of the old standby COC for a couple of months.

[oldgrubber]

Asbestos (both types)
Dichloromethane
M.E.K.
Trich
Cadmium solution and coating
Polycast
Genklene
Radhaz
Avcat fumes
Burnt avcat
Fiberglass
Broken beta lights
Hydraulic fluid
Oils and greases
Guys Our super power is we're still alive after all that!

[The Oberon]

Asbestos (both types)
Dichloromethane
M.E.K.
Trich
Cadmium solution and coating
Polycast
Genklene
Radhaz
Avcat fumes
Burnt avcat
Fiberglass
Broken beta lights
Hydraulic fluid
Oils and greases
Guys Our super power is we're still alive after all that!

I sometimes wonder the same thing myself !
Some of us are old enough to add to that list,
Carbon tetrachloride (CTC), the forerunner of Trich and widely used as a cleaning fluid in radio workshops.
Years of breathing lead based solder fumes, it was years before forced ventilation soldering stations were introduced.

[tucumseh]

Years of breathing lead based solder fumes, it was years before forced ventilation soldering stations were introduced.

PACE stations. I assume they've improved!

I recall a colleague being told he was being put on the new vacuum cadmium plant. As ever, it was delivered on a truck and left to the maintenance sparks to install it. No instructions, no training. Made a change from wiring kettle plugs though. Bob disappeared for few months, trying to work out what to do. When he reappeared one day, his thick shock of combed-back silver hair was two-tone. The new growth was a sickly yellow. He died a few months later. Natural causes allegedly. Aye, right. Everyone gave the plant a body swerve after that and I'm not convinced there were many properly treated high tensile bolts. Big earner for MoD though. Most of the work was repayment from industry.

[Exrigger]

Add to the list Strontium Chromate, that was in little bags clipped along the bottom of the Nimrod fuselage under the fuel cells that had to be replaced each Major servicing, always wondered why the old stuff was put in a plastic bag, then put into a 'Coffee' tin and the lid soldered shut before it disappeared somewhere for disposal, but we were given little in the way of instructions for PPE required, other than rubber gloves.

[Fareastdriver]

Guys Our super power is we're still alive after all that!

Some of us used to fly around with a lapful of luminous instruments as well.

[glad rag]

Remember my intro to 39 SQN, running about with burning gloves looking for a drum of water!!!

"welcome lad, good you listened to safery brief, thanks for the entertainment now come join the rest of the SQN for a beer!!!!"

hint Avpin starter evil linies and espirit de corps!

[ancientaviator62]

Yes got the avpin, starter cartridge, asbestos gloves and fumes 'ticks' from the Javelin, Hunter and Lightning in that order. Plus lead solder, CTC etc.
30 + years flying in the Hercules. What dodgy substances were hidden in that a/c ? I do know that the very thin insulation blanket was know to give off Phosgene gas when heated and that other materials must have been just as deadly.

[msbbarratt]

I sometimes wonder the same thing myself !
Some of us are old enough to add to that list,
Carbon tetrachloride (CTC), the forerunner of Trich and widely used as a cleaning fluid in radio workshops.
Years of breathing lead based solder fumes, it was years before forced ventilation soldering stations were introduced.

With solder I think the primary concern (from the point of view of working with it) was the fumes given off by the flux, not the lead content. Obviously from a disposal / hygiene point of view the lead is still a problem. The worst of all was lead solder paste, as that had the lead in an easily ingested form. Lead free solder still has the flux, and that's still a problem.

Lead solder is still in use for high reliability in nasty environment applications. Lead-free solder is generally reckoned to be more fragile. It's certainly harder to get a lead free soldering process to be reliable.

It's slightly tricky to balance: lots of scrapped electronics due to failed lead-free soldering processes, or less scrap because of the use of lead solder? There's plenty of other nasties in electronics that makes needless scrapping pretty undesirable. The commercial world has largely got on top of lead free soldering processes now, so I think the argument in that space is firmly on the side of lead free.

[megan]

Australian FAA experience.

https://www.faaaa.asn.au/work-sea-kings/

[Magnetic]

It mentions Toulene base chemicals and specifically mentions shrouded oil lines on the seaking engines as a source of asbestos. Also dichloromethane (paint strip).

So exposure for the most part will be limited to those working on engines but then again it does float in the air. Better news than it being in the cab, I think.

Ironically it'll be the greenies who get it from laying down doing the looms on ECU changes. They always looked so clean ... :(.

[glad rag]

My hangar is painted in the stuff, the roof is also made of it.

There was a room in 4 shed, Marham, that was OOB but it was "cleared" by specialised contractors [who formed a sealed off area with poly sheeting etc] shortly before the run down...
Trouble is

1. It was on a throughway
2. It had been unsecured for years with a broken/open window above door....

[Jungly jim]

The Lynx had issues with the blower motor impellers behind the pedals. They were made from Asbestos.

It was proved that the heater former, even when broken released less fibre than the naturally occurring level for the material type. We tested 16 heaters in a controlled environment similar in space volume and vibration characteristics of the platform to prove this. In short, no additional hazard was presented.

[glad rag]

It was proved that the heater former, even when broken released less fibre than the naturally occurring level for the material type. We tested 16 heaters in a controlled environment similar in space volume and vibration characteristics of the platform to prove this. In short, no additional hazard was presented.
Like the finality of that statement......