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View Full Version : Over-the-limit Finnairís A320 pilot arrested in cockpit


Alpha777
17th Aug 2018, 09:10
Wednesday's intoxication on Finnairís A320 Captain delayed the flight to Rome for about two hours.
ĒFinnair staff reported on substance abuse, and police patrol was called to breathalysed the crew," the company said in a press release. Captainís blood alcohol reading was 1.50mg of ethanol per millilitre of blood. (0,15% BAC)

slowjet
17th Aug 2018, 09:29
Blimey, all this back-stabbing, in-house reporting,and media exhaustion is driving me to take a quick slurp before reporting for duty myself !

sixchannel
17th Aug 2018, 09:41
Blimey, all this back-stabbing, in-house reporting,and media exhaustion is driving me to take a quick slurp before reporting for duty myself !

so youd be happy to fly as a PAX or as part of an intoxicated flight crew?
BTW - how much over the airline limit was, presumably, the Captain or FO?

LeadSled
17th Aug 2018, 09:43
Wednesday's intoxication on Finnairís A320 Captain delayed the flight to Rome for about two hours.
ĒFinnair staff reported on substance abuse, and police patrol was called to breathalysed the crew," the company said in a press release. Captainís blood alcohol reading was 1.50mg of ethanol per millilitre of blood. (0,15% BAC)
Blimey, if the above figures are correct, I am surprised he/she could even stagger onto the aeroplane??
Pity the F/O didn't take him/her aside, long before they got anywhere near an aircraft and said something like: "Mate, no go!!, go sick!!"
Tootle pip!!

Lookleft
17th Aug 2018, 12:36
I remember a few years back with a local airline that it was the cabin crew who made a phone call to operations about suspected PIC intoxication and the aircraft was recalled to the gate.

Denti
17th Aug 2018, 12:44
Blimey, if the above figures are correct, I am surprised he/she could even stagger onto the aeroplane??
Pity the F/O didn't take him/her aside, long before they got anywhere near an aircraft and said something like: "Mate, no go!!, go sick!!"
Tootle pip!!

Why would any FO ever do that? Get him breathalyzed and a CPT position will open up. Especially interesting in a seniority driven airline with long waiting lists.

Octane
17th Aug 2018, 12:47
That's 3x the Oz driving BAC limit!

underfire
17th Aug 2018, 15:58
0.020-0.039%No loss of coordination, slight euphoria, and loss of shyness. Relaxation, but depressant effects are not apparent.

0.040-0.059%Feeling of well-being, relaxation, lower inhibitions, and sensation of warmth. Euphoria. Some minor impairment of judgment and memory, lowering of caution.

0.06-0.099%Slight impairment of balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing. Euphoria. Reduced judgment and self-control. Impaired reasoning and memory.

0.100-0.129%Significant impairment of motor coordination and loss of good judgment. Speech may be slurred; balance, peripheral vision, reaction time, and hearing will be impaired.

0.130-0.159%Gross motor impairment and lack of physical control. Blurred vision and major loss of balance. Euphoria is reducing and beginning dysphoria (a state of feeling unwell)

0.160-0.199%Dysphoria predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a sloppy drunk.

0.200-0.249%Needs assistance in walking; total mental confusion. Dysphoria with nausea and vomiting; possible blackout.

0.250-0.399%Alcohol poisoning. Loss of consciousness.

0.40% +Onset of coma, possible death due to respiratory arrest.

tdracer
17th Aug 2018, 18:43
It depends on the individual - people who seldom drink can be literally falling down drunk at 0.05%, while heavy drinkers can be somewhat functional at three times that amount (I read someplace long ago that some 'functional alcoholics' needed to keep their blood alcohol around 0.10% just to function :uhoh:).
However I'd hope a 'functional alcoholic' wouldn't be a professional pilot. 0.15% would be pretty drunk for most people.

scotneil
17th Aug 2018, 19:31
To Denti: I hope these were tongue-in-cheek remarks about an FO getting him/herself promoted through someone else's dismissal - not that I have any sympathy for the captain. I wonder, however, why the captain's state was not noticed at an earlier stage of pre-flight preparation.

Alber Ratman
17th Aug 2018, 19:38
Thank the lord for AP/YD and TCAS..

finfly1
17th Aug 2018, 20:11
Blimey, if the above figures are correct, I am surprised he/she could even stagger onto the aeroplane??
Pity the F/O didn't take him/her aside, long before they got anywhere near an aircraft and said something like: "Mate, no go!!, go sick!!"
Tootle pip!!

Thing is, we don't know from the article whether this was the first time this happened, or the tenth.

Enabling alcoholics to continue to 'function' is a whole lot less a good idea up front of a passenger jet airliner.

LeadSled
18th Aug 2018, 01:40
Why would any FO ever do that? Get him breathalyzed and a CPT position will open up. Especially interesting in a seniority driven airline with long waiting lists.

Denti,
Because that is what a decent person would do for a colleague with a problem ---- and he/she clearly has a problem. Difficult as it may be for somebody of your expressed mindset, that is more likely than your scenario, based on my long experience, thank goodness.
Tootle pip!!

Timpsi
18th Aug 2018, 07:29
Blimey, if the above figures are correct, I am surprised he/she could even stagger onto the aeroplane??
Pity the F/O didn't take him/her aside, long before they got anywhere near an aircraft and said something like: "Mate, no go!!, go sick!!"
Tootle pip!!
I'm guessing you have never been drinking with Finns, you'd die before they even feel drunk...

Fun aside. Rat anybody out? As a PAX I'd never set foot on a plane if I knew the CPT was intoxicated. Would you?:confused:

Joe_K
18th Aug 2018, 09:45
Blimey, if the above figures are correct, I am surprised he/she could even stagger onto the aeroplane??
Pity the F/O didn't take him/her aside, long before they got anywhere near an aircraft and said something like: "Mate, no go!!, go sick!!"
Tootle pip!!

Daily Finland is writing "the pilot had not yet entered the aircraft" and YLE is writing "the airplane was not ready for departure and the captain was not yet sitting in the cockpit". That sounds like he was intercepted somewhere along the pre-flight process, possibly as early as when he reported for duty.

45989
19th Aug 2018, 14:50
Why would any FO ever do that? Get him breathalyzed and a CPT position will open up. Especially interesting in a seniority driven airline with long waiting lists.
You should be ashamed.

msbbarratt
19th Aug 2018, 16:49
Daily Finland is writing "the pilot had not yet entered the aircraft" and YLE is writing "the airplane was not ready for departure and the captain was not yet sitting in the cockpit". That sounds like he was intercepted somewhere along the pre-flight process, possibly as early as when he reported for duty.

I guess reporting for duty counts as intending to fly. Before that no aviation related offence has been committed.

Ollie Onion
20th Aug 2018, 10:39
Remember that US pilot at Manchester who got off as he was obtained at security and his defence was that he did not intend to carry out an aviation function and had only turned up in uniform to get access to the airside area where he could catch up with the Captain (he had left hotel late) to tell him that he was unfit to operate. That’s when security would allow you to board the aircraft and take your seat before popping up and breathalising you.

Ollie Onion
20th Aug 2018, 10:47
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/pilot-cleared-of-drink-charges-985804

climber314
20th Aug 2018, 15:07
I suspect Finnair's ZERO TOLERANCE policy would mean they don't even want employees in uniform when over the legal limit.
It may (in company logic) reflect poorly on their brand (reputation risk management 101).
One may escape criminal prosecution, but still end up without a job?

Less Hair
20th Aug 2018, 15:21
How about some private airport place where everybody can check his levels before reporting for duty?

what next
20th Aug 2018, 15:37
How about some private airport place where everybody can check his levels before reporting for duty?

I think that people over or close to the limits know about that without checking...

Herod
20th Aug 2018, 17:01
Back in the days when it was possible to have a half of shandy within seven days of duty, I once left the aircraft without signing the tech-log. Getting back to my room after dinner, and a couple of beers at the hotel, there was a message from ops that the engineers would ground the plane in the morning if the log wasn't signed. The only practicable thing to do was to change into uniform, wear ID and go to the office. I wasn't drunk, but would have blown over the limit if breathalysed. Although I wasn't due to report for flying until the following afternoon, I suppose if someone had been looking to cause trouble, signing the tech-log could be construed as an "aviation function". There but for the grace (and a different social outlook) .. etc

parabellum
21st Aug 2018, 05:52
Not sure if they still do but at one time professional pilots in India had to pass a breathalyser test before every flight. Such a system, with airport standby, (or even one hour and ready to go standby), carried out before signing on would a). stop the problem and b). minimise bad publicity as well as any delay to departure. Anyone blowing positive under these circumstances possibly needs help anyway and this, too, can be addressed.

viking767
24th Aug 2018, 00:49
Back in the days when it was possible to have a half of shandy within seven days of duty, I once left the aircraft without signing the tech-log. Getting back to my room after dinner, and a couple of beers at the hotel, there was a message from ops that the engineers would ground the plane in the morning if the log wasn't signed. The only practicable thing to do was to change into uniform, wear ID and go to the office. I wasn't drunk, but would have blown over the limit if breathalysed. Although I wasn't due to report for flying until the following afternoon, I suppose if someone had been looking to cause trouble, signing the tech-log could be construed as an "aviation function". There but for the grace (and a different social outlook) .. etc

That was the only practicable thing to do? How about someone from the airport bring the logbook to the hotel for you to sign? :-)

Airbubba
24th Aug 2018, 07:06
FedEx's chief pilot Jack Lewis sent an October 2006 letter to captains with a laundry list of stupid stunts to avoid including this one:

We have another Captain crew member who showed up drunk in the crew lounge recently after deadheading in for a trip. He wasn't checking in for 7 hours and was only transiting the crew lounge, getting his Jepps to prepare to fly later. Security nabbed him and we are all wear the label. Dumb move.

The letter is here: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/84113-post1.html

I've sure had the phone call at the hotel to come sign the logbook. In the past it wasn't a big deal and you could even give the mechanic verbal authorization to sign your name where I worked. Or, so they tell me. ;) However, times change and in recent years I've had colleagues get letters from the FAA for not catching a missing signature a couple of days earlier.

The question of when you report for duty for purposes of drug and alcohol testing has been a moving goalpost. After the Fargo incident in 1990 I believe at Northwest you could say you weren't fit to fly and wanted help up to the point the before start checklist was completed and you would get amnesty from prosecution as long as you went into HIMS. A Virgin pilot at IAD in 2003 got off with a misdemeanor plea deal after he tested drunk after being arrested on the plane while looking over the logbook in uniform prior to pax boarding. It was ruled that there was no clear intent to operate the plane. The drunk America West pilots in MIA in 2002 tried to claim that they weren't operating the plane since the towbar was still connected when they were ordered back to the gate but the judge didn't buy it.

I had a colleague get his positive alcohol test thrown out years ago because he was sleeping it off in a crew lounge and he was tested hours before his report time. Sounds like the FedEx incident above. I sure wouldn't go near company property for any reason with alcohol on my breath these days. :=

hunterboy
24th Aug 2018, 07:53
I agree with the above...why put yourself in jeopardy by appearing on company premises over the limit? Best to avoid it even if transiting or paxing if you have been drinking. There is always someone willing to stab you in the back. I was lucky enough to get a 200k/yr job once, not sure i’m lucky enough to get another one.

Rabski
31st Aug 2018, 18:29
Even in the 'old' days, the rules were simple. If you're drinking, don't wear the uniform and don't go anywhere near an aircraft.

I have understanding and sympathy for people who have a problem with drinking, but that's no excuse. It's not an easy job at the best of times, and trying to do it when impaired even slightly is insane. If it all goes well you might just get away with it. But if it doesn't...

We used to play with this in the sim many years ago. Have a few glasses, then try a sim landing when all hell breaks loose. It's a massive wakeup call.

INKJET
31st Aug 2018, 22:48
Many airlines have a bottle to throttle rule of 12 hours these days, not unreasonable, but these same airlines often have no restrictions on early starts late finish, so day one you report at 04:00am so thar means for most up at 3am or earlier, which means your drinks curfew starts a 3pm the day before....late Sunday lunch anyone.

What Iíd love to see is a blanket test at say EDI or MAN of everyone from cabin crew to security tested for drugs and alcohol use, on the other hand maybe best we donít

Rabski
1st Sep 2018, 12:17
Many airlines have a bottle to throttle rule of 12 hours these days, not unreasonable, but these same airlines often have no restrictions on early starts late finish, so day one you report at 04:00am so thar means for most up at 3am or earlier, which means your drinks curfew starts a 3pm the day before....late Sunday lunch anyone.

What Iíd love to see is a blanket test at say EDI or MAN of everyone from cabin crew to security tested for drugs and alcohol use, on the other hand maybe best we donít



Maybe best we do,

Would you really be happy with someone in the seat next to you who is under the influence?

I'm no saint, believe me. However, there's a time and place. As before, if all goes well you can get away with all sorts. The issue comes when things go to hell. That's when the last thing you need is anyone who isn't 100%.

We can all rail on about the time limits and the commercial pressures and mostly we are right. But we don't need to add our own issues.

pee
18th Jan 2019, 19:13
Finnair pilot fired for drunkenness gets 3-month suspended sentence (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnair_pilot_fired_for_drunkenness_gets_3-month_suspended_sentence/10604151), writes yle.fi. The most frightening fragment comes a bit later. "The test showed that the 40-year-old's blood alcohol level was 2.0 promille (mg per ml of blood), according to court testimony." Oh dear, it's 0.2 per cent, an utter irresponsibility.

lpvapproach
18th Jan 2019, 19:55
Is there an economic self testing system

Loose rivets
18th Jan 2019, 23:18
Yes, it's seeing if you can resist the temptation to have any alcohol at all. Tough, but cheap.

I've posted before about Matthew Walker's book, Why we sleep. It's a must read for many professions. One of the most thought provoking statements was, Intoxicated, and you take more time to take action. (whatever that may be!) but tired, and during a micro-sleep, you make no decision at all.

Tiredness in the US causes more road traffic accidents than alcohol and 'substances' combined. He goes on to Controlled Release sleeping tablets, with horrifying statistics.