View Full Version : RAF Fastjet Flying Nonstop?
GLIDER 90
7th Aug 2018, 17:08
Hello All
With seeing the one show last night about the F-35s crossing the Atlantic to the UK. It said the pilots were flying 10 hours nonstop, how does a single seat pilot manage in all that time without being able to move about etc? I thought it bad enough on some uk airlines!!
SASless
7th Aug 2018, 17:33
How does a Glider Pilot do the same when doing long cross country flights?
GLIDER 90
7th Aug 2018, 17:56
Grin & bear it!!
sycamore
7th Aug 2018, 18:12
G90,they obviously didn`t discuss the little known facts about the reclining ejection seat.In a long cruise there is a selector on the side of the seat that will allow the seat to recline 40 degrees back,at the same time,moving the rudder pedals out of the way.The Autopilot is linked to the controlling tanker,so the aircraft will follow it,so that the pilot can have a rest/sleep;there is also an electric blind that will cover the inside of the cockpit,preventing all those nasty cosmic rays.When it`s time for lunch/refuel time ,there is a gentle audio `bing-bong`,but if that doesn`t work,then there is a `seat-shaker` alarm.The blinds are withdrawn and the pilot can then have his lunch,curtesy of a little tray that folds up/down on the cockpit side,and a little white box appears with crispy sandwiches,hard-tack biscuits,chewing gum,and `Walkers crisps`.Also not mentioned is that the pilots also have a `catheter` fitted before flight,and of course a large `nappy` to cater for the inevitable.They can of course program one of the cockpit displays to watch CNN/FOX overseas,or BBC/ITV/SKY,ETC,or connect their Xbox and play games if they are bored.If it`s a night flight,then they can always have an audio bed-time story......
Linedog
7th Aug 2018, 18:21
G90,they obviously didn`t discuss the little known facts about the reclining ejection seat.In a long cruise there is a selector on the side of the seat that will allow the seat to recline 40 degrees back,at the same time,moving the rudder pedals out of the way.The Autopilot is linked to the controlling tanker,so the aircraft will follow it,so that the pilot can have a rest/sleep;there is also an electric blind that will cover the inside of the cockpit,preventing all those nasty cosmic rays.When it`s time for lunch/refuel time ,there is a gentle audio `bing-bong`,but if that doesn`t work,then there is a `seat-shaker` alarm.The blinds are withdrawn and the pilot can then have his lunch,curtesy of a little tray that folds up/down on the cockpit side,and a little white box appears with crispy sandwiches,hard-tack biscuits,chewing gum,and `Walkers crisps`.Also not mentioned is that the pilots also have a `catheter` fitted before flight,and of course a large `nappy` to cater for the inevitable.They can of course program one of the cockpit displays to watch CNN/FOX overseas,or BBC/ITV/SKY,ETC,or connect their Xbox and play games if they are bored.If it`s a night flight,then they can always have an audio bed-time story......
Sycamore, you forgot to include the inflight "relief service."
sycamore
7th Aug 2018, 18:29
Catheter and nappy,or did you mean set the seat-shaker to `high`...?
It is of note, in this context, that the Corsair had a pull-out tray table under the instrument panel. Useful for in-flight dining, but apparently intended for working with charts.
GLIDER 90
7th Aug 2018, 18:50
But what about the days with Buccaneers, Lightnings, Phantoms etc that were going to Cyprus or Gan?
But what about the days with Buccaneers, Lightnings, Phantoms etc that were going to Cyprus or Gan?Pee Tube and a Scran Bag, surely?
Piddle pack and lunchbox. If piddle pack unused, sponge v good for car washing.
rolling20
7th Aug 2018, 20:10
WW2, many Lanc pilots on ops used to kneel on their seat, slide open the window and let the slipstream do the rest. They didn’t trust the tube provided for the use of, due to icing. One would have thought any ice would have melted fairly quickly!
But what about the days with Buccaneers, Lightnings, Phantoms etc that were going to Cyprus or Gan?
You also had some long missions off QRA..I have a 6hrs 30 (night) F-4 “mission” in the logbook where we got launched with no notice so no sarnies.......that said as I recall it the guys involved in shifting F-4s at various times between the Falkland Islands/Ascension/U.K. clocked some fairly impressive “sectors”...
As was said it was and I guess still is a case of grin and bear it....
NutLoose
7th Aug 2018, 20:38
Sycamore, you forgot to include the inflight "relief service."
Funnily enough, we I believe had a used condom found under the seat after one such flight, it was returned to the said pilot during a dining in night :E
Harley Quinn
8th Aug 2018, 05:18
Didn't UK based Tornado deliver weapons during the Libyan thing? There and back?
rolling20
8th Aug 2018, 06:44
F-111s flew non stop from UK bases to hit Libya in 1986, after the French, Spanish and Italians denied them overflights.
kenparry
8th Aug 2018, 07:06
Didn't UK based Tornado deliver weapons during the Libyan thing? There and back?
No.
Detached to a base in Italy.
BEagle
8th Aug 2018, 07:08
I seem to recall reading that the emptying of Lancaster Elsans over Berlin resulted in German claims that the RAF was indulging in chemical warfare...
Pontius Navigator
8th Aug 2018, 07:10
It is really a question of preparation. You would be foolish to drink endless coffee when on Q or pre-flight. We were encouraged to eat low fat, no beans food before flight. In-flight sarnies were supposed to be bite size.
Of course some catering units, unused to aircrew rations could cock up in spades. In particular, bottles of undiluted squash, hard boiled eggs in shells, oranges, bananas (not much better), cups of tinned mixed fruit.
Kitbag
8th Aug 2018, 07:33
No.
Detached to a base in Italy.
I think IX(B) would disagree with you Ken
Second longest sorties by RAF aircraft.
rolling20
8th Aug 2018, 07:43
Of course some catering units, unused to aircrew rations could cock up in spades. In particular, bottles of undiluted squash, hard boiled eggs in shells, oranges, bananas (not much better), cups of tinned mixed fruit.
I think it was out of Lossiemouth on an Andover, the aircraft was furnished with a delicious platter of sandwiches for the day ahead. The crew I was with enjoyed them so much, the nav wrote a note as a thank you. I assumed from that that flying rations weren't usually up to much?
Treble one
8th Aug 2018, 09:47
No.
Detached to a base in Italy.
It was the Typhoons that went to Italy as I recall ken (GDC)?
They didn’t trust the tube provided for the use of, due to icing. One would have thought any ice would have melted fairly quickly!
A piece of p**s then.
Bob Viking
8th Aug 2018, 10:11
I love it when people state facts that really aren’t.
It honestly doesn’t take much to research these things and give a correct answer.
The following took me twelve seconds to find:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ellamy
Précis - multiple GR4s and Typhoons deployed to Italy. GR4s also operated from Marham.
As for long range FJ sorties, they are not very comfortable. The Jag cockpit was small and there was no autopilot. Having a wee was emotional. Eating was ok because you were never really high enough to have to worry about taking your mask off.
I haven’t flown Typhoon or Tornado but they certainly appear to be marginally more comfortable with more space and an autopilot.
My biggest fear was falling asleep. Our US cousins have no such problems.
BV
Stitchbitch
8th Aug 2018, 10:25
I wonder what the record for single seat pee bag use is? One of our guys (now sadly departed) once bought in three full ones after an epic trip to Oman in the mighty hovering war budgie, dropped them on the counter and started to mooch off. Three! I politely decline the offer and returned them to him quoting nil returns 🤣.
Tankertrashnav
8th Aug 2018, 10:38
Sorties of that length in the V Force (Victor tankers in my case) were not unknown. The rear crew could leave their seats although there was little point as there was nowhere to go, but the two pilots were stuck in their bang seats for the duration so were in no better a position than the FJ crews who might be accompanying them. Possible to put the pins in and get out I suppose, but there would have been little point.
BEagle
8th Aug 2018, 10:46
Trailing some Harrier GR3s back across the Pond from Goose, as we reached UK airspace the controller started being rather terse with one of our receivers in loose formation as his height was wandering a little.
"Look mate, single engine, single pilot, no autopilot and I'm trying to have a pee - I'm doing my best!" came the reply.... :ok:
PEI_3721
8th Aug 2018, 11:00
The Lightning; 23 Sqn tanked from Leuchars to Toronto, Also direct to Ankara only using U.K. based tankers. Return via Izmir to rendezvous with the U.K. tankers off Italy (eventually), some Lightnings diverted to Wattisham.
Did 74 Squadron reposition to Singapore direct? Rumour that one overwing tank arrived full on Leuchars fuel.
Pee bag with sponge. Sandwiches in the ‘B’ scope visor.
Pontius Navigator
8th Aug 2018, 11:07
Javelin certainly deployed to the Far East 1-1 with a Valiants so long legs El Adem Aden Gan Butterworth
GLIDER 90
8th Aug 2018, 11:07
Have flown in a Victor for over 3 hours, like TTN says not much room to move about.
beardy
8th Aug 2018, 11:31
Ascension to Coningsby in F4 8.50hrs 7 tanking slots. Southern QRA 6.50hrs & 5.45hrs. Never could get through the immersion suit to use a pee bag!
SASless
8th Aug 2018, 12:14
Immersion suits are water tight....but it makes for soggy socks and yellow toes!
Martin the Martian
8th Aug 2018, 12:20
I believe that any Lancaster/Halifax etc pilots that annoyed the groundcrew could sometimes end up with a knot tied in their pee tube.
Rumour that one overwing tank arrived full on Leuchars fuel.
Good rumour but impossible.
The F6 Lightning couldn't take off with full overwings. They would fill during in-flight refuelling.
NutLoose
8th Aug 2018, 13:23
Spare a thought for the mighty Piper Warrior warrior who having filled his bottle up, ( carried along for the purpose ) still requiring to go, so decided to empty the said bottle out of the DV window, much to the chargrin of his friend in the back who copped the lot...fair play he cleaned up the aircraft, his friend however was not amused.
212man
8th Aug 2018, 14:08
The B2 round trips from the US to Libya were around 30 hours, also in a bang seat.
The B2 round trips from the US to Libya were around 30 hours, also in a bang seat.
Well, yes, but the B-2 also has a camp bed, proper (albeit tiny) toilet & small galley for those long missions.
212man
8th Aug 2018, 15:13
Well, yes, but the B-2 also has a camp bed, proper (albeit tiny) toilet & small galley for those long missions.
Fair enough. I’ve only see cockpit photos which don’t immediately suggest that to be the case.
PEI_3721
8th Aug 2018, 15:16
Dook, #34, my overwing tanks were always full at take off, minus any leaks.
(if The Lightning didn’t leak then it wasn’t full)
rolling20
8th Aug 2018, 16:42
Spare a thought for the mighty Piper Warrior warrior who having filled his bottle up, ( carried along for the purpose ) still requiring to go, so decided to empty the said bottle out of the DV window, much to the chargrin of his friend in the back who copped the lot...fair play he cleaned up the aircraft, his friend however was not amused.
Similar tale Nut. Took two bods up to Manchester in a Seneca. Got delayed out of Elstree, so they decided to drink. Not sure where, but they picked up a bottle of Single Malt in a presentation tin. 30 mins into the flight one of them was desperate, so he took the malt from the tin and peed in that. Alas said tin wasn't water tight and it came out all over his feet. Luckily his chum had a strong polythene bag and it was placed in that, so problem solved. He then hang it on the coat hook. On landing long and fast with a 767 up our behind, we bounced .Said tin and it contents spilled out over the pair of them! We taxied to the GA terminal, where they went to clean up and they then spent 30mins cleaning the aircraft.
I remember flying No Fly Zone enforcement missions over Iraq (operation Southern Watch, etc) after Gulf War I. A long transit to feet dry in theater, then several refuelings feet dry, following by a long transit back to the carrier for night recovery with piddle packs stuffed here and there and everywhere. And those Go Pills!! (stay awake stimulant drugs)
ian16th
9th Aug 2018, 20:03
Sorties of that length in the V Force (Victor tankers in my case) were not unknown. The rear crew could leave their seats although there was little point as there was nowhere to go, but the two pilots were stuck in their bang seats for the duration so were in no better a position than the FJ crews who might be accompanying them. Possible to put the pins in and get out I suppose, but there would have been little point.
When 214 Sqdn. flew the early long distance/duration proving trips during the IFR/AAR trials, 1959/60. An Elsan was carried on board the Valiant.
The trips included:
May 28th 1959 Marham - Salisbury 9h42 Sqdn. Ldr J H Garstin
June 18th 1959 Marham - Waterkloof 11h03 Wg. Cdr. M J Beetham
July 9th 1959 O/H LHR - Cape Town 11h28 Wg. Cdr. M J Beetham
July 14th 1959 Cape Town - O/H LHR 12h20 Wg. Cdr. M J Beetham
Mar 2nd-3rd 1960 Marham - Around UK 18h05 Sqdn. Ldr J H Garstin At the time the longest flight by a jet a/c.
May 25th 1960 Marham - Changi 15h35 Sqdn. Ldr J H Garstin
June 1st 1960 Butterworth - Marham 16h16 Sqdn. Ldr J H Garstin
Normally on these long flights there were 6 bodies on board as the Crew Chief usually travelled on the jump seat.
There was also the Vulcan to Sydney, and the dry run for that, which was the Vulcan flew Scampton to O/H Karachi, and returned to Scampton.
We also did trips ferrying fighters.
One such trip was taking Javelins to Singapore. The route was Marham/Coltishall - Akrotiri - Karachi - Gan - Singapore. All done on successive days. We ground crew did the pre-flights and saw the a/c off. Jumped aboard a Britannia, that followed the Valiant's and Javelins. On arrival did the de-snagging and went to bed. Repeated each day for 4 days. We were young and thought it was all fun!
Tankertrashnav
9th Aug 2018, 23:47
That's interesting Ian. Can't see where we would have fitted an Elsan in a Victor but the Valiant was a lot more spacious inside as I recall.
brakedwell
10th Aug 2018, 05:40
I believe that any Lancaster/Halifax etc pilots that annoyed the groundcrew could sometimes end up with a knot tied in their pee tube.
The Twin Pioneer had two pee tubes connected to football type bladders in the front luggage compartment under the flight deck floor. On a flight from Sharjah to Bahrain my navigator in the right hand seat decided he wanted to try out the chromium plated pee tube for size.. I pointed out we had a toilet down the back and some poor sod would have to empty the pee container after we landed, but the nav persisted with his plan, unzipped his flying suit and christened the shiny tube.
When we retrieved our bags after landing the nav’s heavy holdall was soaking wet as it had been directly under his seat and someone had removed the bladder that should have been on the end of the rubber pipe connected to his pee tube. Poetic justice had been served,
BEagle
10th Aug 2018, 06:37
On a transit to Luqa from Scampton, our AEO decided that he needed to use his Vulcan pee tube. Which then leaked so that the contents ended up on the lowest part of the rear crew compartment - the entrance door. Where it froze...
Until, that is, we descended into the warmer air of Malta. As we taxied to the parking slot, out strode the Det Cdr ('Paddington Bear') in his smart KD, clutching 5 tinnies of Hopleaf for us. Before we could warn him, he opened the entrance door - with the inevitable result.
He was good enough to see the funny side though "Fine crew that, I bring them beer and they p*ss all over me!".
ian16th
10th Aug 2018, 07:59
That's interesting Ian. Can't see where we would have fitted an Elsan in a Victor but the Valiant was a lot more spacious inside as I recall.
I have vague memories of it being lashed to or near the jump seat.
The crew chief apparently moved to the bomb aimer's position soon after take off and slept!
If one needed to use the Elsan, privacy wasn't a priority.
EXFIN
10th Aug 2018, 08:20
Goose Bay to Alaska, 3 AAR’s 8hrs. Transport guys tucking into their in-flight meals whereas we had sandwiches cut into small bite sized amounts! At least the AAR sections broke down the boredom of flying over the sheer empty vastness of The Canadian Prairies. Return flight was only 6:30 but the second 4 ship had a little trouble but that’s another story!