ICAC to investigate overtime bias

[sickto the backteeth]

Is it true that a leaked spreadsheet circulating the 3rd Floor, shows a spike in overtime allocation and payments to local pilots and is being investigated by ICAC?

[controlledrest]

A few years ago some rostering staff where found to be giving Japan overnights to local crew who were then giving them a kick back of some of the allowances.

At least the CMP might be less prone to corruption....if they keep their fingers out of it.

[Busbuoy]

Ha....like that'll happen! They already have modifications in the original system to allow them to say no to automatically approved swaps!

[Air Profit]

Just another reason to get the hell out of here and settle down in your home country, with an employer who can't "racially" manipulate the value of your career. Does anyone think that factor will actually improve in years to come...?

[unitedabx]

I recall a catering manager at CX going to jail after an ICAC investigation.

[swh]

Also investigating the reason why even junior local pilots are being rostered significant A350 flying while senior expats are being left to do the A330 flying.

[mngmt mole]

All in all, another reason that ANY new rostering system MUST be transparent. If it isn't, then there must be NO chance of us relinquishing CC and the TB. If we don't insist on this, we will have effectively institutionalized a corrupt and opaque system that will surely lead to loss of lifestyle, remuneration and accountability. As if we can suffer even more indignities on all those counts. This place becomes more toxic by the day.

[unitedabx]

Interesting point SWH.
I was told the reason for this was the recent LOSA report ( now buried ) highlighted a disturbing spike in "errors" with cross 330/350 flying to the extent that this practice should cease and the fleets be treated as separate types. The junior local pilots cannot cope with the cross flying hence they are directed to A350 flying only.

[Air Profit]

Could not agree more Dan. It's a shame that many of the more junior members are willing to sell out the only certainty this business SHOULD provide, for short term gain. Many in this company will reap what they sow. Sad.

[From a distance]

Corruption is corrosive. An example needs to be made of the guilty. No support should be forthcoming from the AOA for jobs on the line as a result. As for the rostering drones, the sooner you are replaced by JCR the better.

[mngmt mole]

It isn’t a career airline exactly because of thinking like that. AP has described the problem correctly, and you just confirmed it.

[BusyB]

When was CX a fair share airline? Must have missed that second.

[betpump5]

And a certain CX - HKCAD "special relationship"

[Scoreboard]

Long haul 350 flying has gone down to almsot zero here when been doing at least 2 long haul a month for over a year.....now i am suddenly doing bloody india again?

[DropKnee]

A strick senority based system allows for a great deal of transparency. Penalties also have to be included in the system for people who break it. Some may argue that other systems are better. But with a seniority based system. It’s difficult to hide when someone junior gets a better deal (wink,wink).

[Shot Nancy]

An investigation sounds like a good idea.
However having worked for various airlines using different bidding systems rotating is the best way.
Date of joining for aircraft bids, basings etc but not for monthly rosters. It creates greed and hubris.

[Flex88]

Also investigating the reason why even junior local pilots are being rostered significant A350 flying while senior expats are being left to do the A330 flying.



It's called Rostering With "Asian Values"

And guess who gets "Unconscious Bias Training"... Those who make the rosters? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!

[Liam Gallagher]

REALITY CHECK <on>

Rostering is and will be strict seniority; however since this is Cathay, the following events have priority (in this order);

1. Training events (RT, PC, AEP, conversions, Upgrades, T sims) have absolute priority.
2. Leave ( which is not given in SS, but "points" and even then at sole discretion of the company)
3. Reserve. With 30 days "free reserve" in the COS, we effectively have fair-share reserve.
4. Based flying. I'm not saying Based people have priority, but if the system needs to move a Based person, it will.
5. Cost minimisation. EFP and HDP minimisation by using the computers to smash rosters together at about 84 hours.

So for all the SS zealots, you will have a strict seniority system. Any trip not required by training, on a day you are not on company allocated leave, reserve or a training event will be allocated to you in strict seniority, so long as the system doesn't require the trip for a based person or your selection results in you deviating from 84ish hours.

So if it makes you feel better, I will tickle your tummy and tell you that you will have a Strict Seniority System. But will you really have more meaningful input into your roster?

REALITY CHECK <off>

[BlunderBus]

Payback for 150 years of crap from the other side. Boot’s on the other foot now.

[Oasis]

I guess I’m going I have to up my game by just sending moon cakes every year...:-p

[Staggers]

What did the Roman’s ever do for us?

[Busbuoy]

" Unconscious Bias Training".
The clue is in the name. Only disciplinary action will fix "Conscious" Bias!

[VR-HFX]

Payback for 150 years of crap from the other side. Boot’s on the other foot now.


BB
Most of us have been very supportive of localisation and gone the extra mile to support the cadets through the system. Jump seats have always been given on a needs basis and not based on any profiling. This blatant rorting of the rostering system is something new and yet another indicator that this company is rotting from the head.

[mngmt mole]

Time to accept this company is terminally ill and head for greener pastures. Without transparency in something this fundamental (and oversight by the AOA), there can never be a chance of stability and faith in the foundations of a career. Its over.

[unitedabx]

Transparency is something CX will never allow. If the outside business world could see how dysfunctional this airline really is the share price would collapse overnight. Game over.

[Will IB Fayed]

Yet another reason for purely seniority based roster bidding.

Perfect, I'd love nothing more to bid for a few long hauls out of HK. Up from Aus (based), over to Dublin, back to HK, and back to Aus. Easy 50hrs!

Thats what you mean by "Purely seniority based " right?

[Apple Tree Yard]

What most of us mean by "seniority" is simply the fact that the more senior you become, the more benefits should accrue. That is the only guarantee of value in your career. Also the only way to ensure transparency in rostering/leave etc. Or do you think it reasonable and normal that a 60 yr old works twice as hard as a 25 yr old? The problem in CX is that most of the pilots have never worked for a proper seniority based airline, therefore have no knowledge or understanding of the importance and value that those systems provide. There is a reason that the US airlines have the best working/pay/benefit conditions in the industry. It's because every pilot employed there has a vested interest in seeing the value of years invested increase, year on year. That forces the airlines to improve pay and benefits such that senior Captains at Southwest (737's) are making upwards of $40K/mo (some Delta Captains are earning $80K/mo with overtime). Something to look forward to as you climb the ladder. Here at CX, all you have to look forward to is working yourself to death in a rostering system that can deliberately work the older pilots literally to death. If you haven't worked in a strict seniority system, then perhaps accept that you really don't know what you are talking about.

[swh]

Perfect, I'd love nothing more to bid for a few long hauls out of HK. Up from Aus (based), over to Dublin, back to HK, and back to Aus. Easy 50hrs!

Thats what you mean by "Purely seniority based " right?

Sure sounds good if you actually have the seniority to have that base position.

[Trafalgar]

It might be worth adding that it isn't only rostering that is important in respect of seniority. It is also vital to ensure fair allocation of fleet positions. Our reluctance to insist on strict seniority results in a lottery of type allocation, whereup senior people risk being trapped on the worst fleets (and in fact are). Or do you think it fair that a jr Captain is entitled to a slot on the 777/350 and a much senior Captain is trapped on the freighter, with no ability to ensure movement to the better fleets during their career? With our current system, anyone is subject to arbitrary and capricious disadvantage, which can affect your entire career. There is a downside to strict seniority (the early years are more difficult), but it is truly the ONLY system that ensures fairness overall. As ATY said above, if you haven't worked in such a system, then accept you really don't know what you are talking about.

[unitedabx]

Our junior pilot colleagues are only too happy to accept strict DOJ seniority when it comes to staff travel but not for anything else.
More "me, me, me" mentality.

[swh]

Traf,

There have been a number one of opportunities for senior 747 pilots to move across. I remember reading things like they would never fly a twin over water, never fly a FBW Airbus where the pilot does not have the final control, CX is ordering the 747-8i and thy will be the senior pilots flying them. CX is buying the A380, and they will be flying them as the are the only ones with super category experience......

There are many of these so called junior A350 pilots that did their time flying all the regional patterns while junior pilots to them were going to work only a few times a month on the 777 and getting 50% more salary.

Think you are misguided as to the rosters on the A330/A350, have a look at the CMP pairings just published to see the luxury they are in for.

[mngmt mole]

SWH, yes, you are correct that the company has let some of the 747 pilots come across. But again, that highlights the problem. It's NOT based on seniority. There may have been more senior pilots on either the 777 or Airbus that wanted those slots, and they couldn't have them. There can be no stability in a CX career without a proper, strict seniority system. The only way people seem to wake up to that reality is when they personally get abused by the current system. We are a regressive and failed airline, and this is one big reason why.

[LongTimeInCX]

Think you are misguided as to the rosters on the A330/A350, have a look at the CMP pairings just published to see the luxury they are in for.

Luxury??
I thought the same when I looked at the pairings for us crew in HK on the 330/A50.
I can see there's going to be plenty of pineapples going around, but it still looks as if there's patterns to all the destinations, albeit with plenty of night flying fillers. So overall I wasn't impressed, until an Australian based colleague of same vintage showed me the Aus patterns. Almost all are WOCL flights with a large amount of camels n curry thrown in. On reflection their Australian based patterns have only one decent pattern out of the 70 or 80 I saw, and not even an occasional ULH to Europe, so CMP has well shafted them. In comparison, our options in HK look good.

[mngmt mole]

CMP is setting up to be an epic failure, and probably exacerbating the crewing/retention problems that are now becoming endemic. CX management just can't give up "control", be it in limiting consecutive days off, ignoring fatigue and continuing to work pilots until they (inevitably) suffer from broken health. There is no realistic hope of a stable, long term career at CX. Management is only interested in working you to the maximum possible, for as many years as possible, then happily discarding you on the rubbish pile to be replaced by a cheaper, younger version...and so the cycle continues.

[CyberT]

Great post ATY.

[unitedabx]

Is it true ? Last Friday afternoon, 3 ICAC officials interviewed the new GMA in his CX office about the overtime bias.