ARNHEM LANDING - NEW BOOK

[Fantome]

https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.cmail20.com%2Fei%2Fy%2FBE%2F0A8%2F2 39%2F143425%2Fcsfinal%2F9780670918669.jpg&t=1532063088&ymreqid=4a3dc443-0fcd-1d3d-1c8d-49001001f500&sig=gWTdIk2yTO63SbI34LDBcA--%7EC (https://awmonlineshop.cmail20.com/t/y-l-kthkkyt-thedrjyr-z/)Arnhem: the battle for the bridges (https://awmonlineshop.cmail20.com/t/y-l-kthkkyt-thedrjyr-v/), 1944Antony Beevor Operation Market Garden, the plan to end the war by capturing the bridges leading to the Lower Rhine and beyond, was a bold concept. But could it ever have worked? The cost of failure was horrendous, above all for the Dutch, who risked everything to help. The latest publication from this renowned historian, Antony Beevor examines much more than a single battle and looks into the very heart of war. Soft cover, 496 pages. $34.99 (https://awmonlineshop.cmail20.com/t/y-l-kthkkyt-thedrjyr-e/)

[Warmtoast]

Fantome

"Arnhem" has been out for a couple of months and reviewers have given very positive reviews of this description of a very British heroic failure.

I've got two of Beevor's earlier WW2 books "Stalingrad" and "Berlin" both of which are cracking reads. "Arnhem" is on my shopping list.

WT

[Wander00]

About half way through, a very good read IMHO, but substantially cheaper on UK S American river and in hardback

[Marcantilan]

It is an improvement over the classic "A Bridge Too Far" ( Cornelius Ryan)? Thanks,

[Heathrow Harry]

It really WAS a mad-arsed scheme wasn't it...................

Unfortunately a lot of brave men died there

[roving]

Folklore is that Roy Urquhart was so incensed by the losses to the Parachute Regiment of some 8000, on returning to the UK he physically assaulted Boy Browning. who was blamed for implementing Montgomery's hare brained idea.

But since Churchill was up for anything which demonstrated British resolve to Stalin, who had accused the British of cowardice, no-one was cashiered .

[Maxibon]

Churchill was in Canada whilst this was going on. Given the complete lack of options regarding crossing the Rhine and NOW fully aware of the G2 picture, the ground was bolleaux but when it’s all you’be got you deal with it. I still believe the rough concept was right, it was a case of poor effects’ positioning and phasing.

[vintage ATCO]

I have this as an audiobook, 14 hours of listening. Excellent for long journeys in the car. I like Antony Beevoir's stuff.

[Yellow Sun]

I am about halfway through Arnhem, having read all of Antony Beevor’s other books. I found Stalingrad and Berlin the most interesting probably as I was less familiar with these battles than the others he narrates. Arnhem has so far failed to really catch my imagination, possibly because it was still being covered when I went through training and the fact that I knew a number of people who had fought in the battle. So to me it had more immediacy than say GW1 or Corporate would have to today’s trainees. I also have the feeling that Beevor; and Max Hastings; are running out of new material. Both are at their best when writing of campaigns and battles that encompass a broad sweep of action and are essentially strategic rather than tactical events. It is difficult for me to see where either might go from here.

Strangely, Beevor’s book that appealed to me least was was his first, about the Spanish Civil War, but his style developed rapidly afterwards. If you seek something different then I recommend The War That Never Was by David Pryce-Jones. Written in the years immediately following the break up of the Soviet Union it provides a rare insight to a remarkable period in European history.

YS

[typerated]

Read his Normandy one and it left me cold.

I think Hastings and Keegan are much better

[rolling20]

I haven't read the book, but it is well known that Major Brian Urquhart ( now Sir Brian Urquhart) tried to get Browning to amend the plan, inlight of information regarding German troop build up. Browning had him removed on medical grounds. Urquhart is still alive and nearly a centurion! I could never understand why the RAF and Typhoons in particular didn't not deal with the German armour as they had done in Normandy.

[Pontius Navigator]

Remember Horrocks? His TV presentations were superb and as a commander trying to get through he really could narrate the story.

[tdracer]

As long as the subject is Market Garden, here is a little brain tease for you:
What if Patton had been in charge instead of Monty?
Having read several books on the subject - I really have little interest in reading another. Further, I find it hard to believe it could be significantly better than Ryan's "A Bridge Too Far" (I have an autographed first edition).

[chinook240]

As long as the subject is Market Garden, here is a little brain tease for you:
What if Patton had been in charge instead of Monty?
Having read several books on the subject - I really have little interest in reading another. Further, I find it hard to believe it could be significantly better than Ryan's "A Bridge Too Far" (I have an autographed first edition).

Like you I have read most of the books on Market Garden, this latest book provides a different perspective on it and is thoroughly enjoyable. The German point of view is better presented than A Bridge Too Far, for example. Your brain teaser is partially addressed in the book, although not Patton, Bedell Smith is quoted as saying he doubted XXX Corp could get up there but ours (US) might have. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[ancientaviator62]

Many moons ago I studied 'Market Garden' in some depth. My main impression was that the concept ignored the basic military truism 'no plan of attack survives contact with the enemy'. It appeared to me that everything had to go right for it to have even a slim chance of success. This was doubly so given the intelligence failures. IMHO I doubt that Patton in all his fury could have got the tanks up what was effectively a single road.

[beamer]

Beevor tends to tell a story rather than simply list a sequence of events. His dislike of Montgomery is palpable.

[Old-Duffer]

Um, no mention of my own book about Arnhem!

The way the British military establishment treated Sosabowski is nothing short of a national disgrace. The way we behaved towards the commander of 1st Polish Armoured Division, was only moderately better. How can officers who have commanded major operational units be relegated to working in a toolroom store or a second rate Scottish hotel - even Wojtech the Polish Army bear, which was kept at Edinburgh Zoo for the remainder of his life, was better treated.

Old Duffer

[Heathrow Harry]

Beevor tends to tell a story rather than simply list a sequence of events. His dislike of Montgomery is palpable.

He wasn't a very likeable person ................... pretty effective in the W Desert but he arrived just as the decent kit started to arrive in bulk - after that he was a NATIONAL HERO when in fact he was a bit second rate TBH. His Normandy campaign was not a great success and he was bailed out by the Yanks breakout.

[Pontius Navigator]

He wasn't a very likeable person .......His Normandy campaign was not a great success and he was bailed out by the Yanks breakout.

I read only recently that a countervailing view was that the British and Canadian left pinned the bulk of the German Army allowing the American breakout to close the Falaise Pocket.

[Lookleft]

I read only recently that a countervailing view was that the British and Canadian left pinned the bulk of the German Army allowing the American breakout to close the Falaise Pocket.

That was always Monty's plan which had been agreed to by Eisenhower. The Brits and Canadians were the numerically dominant force at the start of D-Day and took on the strongest German formations around Caen. The Americans had to build their forces up and by the time of Operation Cobra were the largest force. Post war when the memoirs were published was when the Americans disparaged Monty's plan. It didn't help that Monty had annoyed everyone with his personality. His press conference after the Battle of the Bulge was his personal "bridge too far" as far as the Americans were concerned.

As for Arnhem Monty, had always argued for the strong single thrust to break into Germany and the Market-Garden plan was the result. Once again a plan that was approved by Eisenhower. What is fascinating about the battle are the number of what ifs that could have made it successful. One aspect often overlooked is the American's 82nd Airborne failure to take the Nijmegen bridge when they could have instead of focusing on the Groesbeck Heights.

Anyway Anton Beevor is a very readable author of history. Another author is James Holland, who also is not a big fan of Montgomery.

[Watson1963]

This guy reviews the new book. He has many Market Garden videos on his channel, as well as other campaigns.https://youtu.be/fr92BwihIoU

[Pontius Navigator]

This guy reviews the new book. He has many Market Garden videos on his channel, as well as other campaigns.https://youtu.be/fr92BwihIoU

Can you summarise his review? Is it favourable or not?

[Chugalug2]

PN:-
Can you summarise his review? Is it favourable or not?

Having viewed his rather tortuous review, I would say not. The issue is of course Nijmegen and the delay in capturing the bridge. Beever, according to the review, blames Browning for placing the capture and holding of the Groesbeek Heights against up to 1000 German tanks rumoured to be hidden in the Reichswald Forest ahead of the Waal Bridge, but gives no evidence of the assertion. The 82nd Airborne Commander, Gavin, though admits to this course of action, but lays the responsibility on his subordinate, Lindquist, for not detaching a full battalion to the bridge. Generals, eh? The irony is that the actual threat came not from the East but from the North of the Bridge itself in the shape of 10 SS Panzer.

As to 30 Corps being 36 hours late arriving at the bridge, the reviewer claims they were on time. By the time they left the Bridge they were indeed 36 hours late, due to the 'misunderstanding' noted above. Market Garden was lost at Nijmegen it seems.