Saint Cyr

[gantshill]

I am planning/considering a VFR trip to Saint Cyr and was wondering if anyone knows where I can find the AIP Aerodrome information? I’ve looked here:

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dvd/eAIP_21_JUN_2018/FRANCE/AIRAC-2018-06-21/html/index-fr-FR.html

but it’s not there strangely! Google isn’t really helping either. Does anybody know where I can find it?

I am planning on doing Customs at LFAT and then departing to route East of Abbeville (to avoid Parachute exercises) and then South (Beauvais - Pontoise - S Cyr). Lots of clearances to get, and then there’s the confusing airspace around the destination airfield. Any tips / ideas? Would there be one frequency that might clear me through the whole lot? I also speak zero French but I have been advised that this should not be a problem....any insights would be appreciated. Thanks!

[mikehallam]

Try reading the free data on Mach7, google it and it will give data on all French fields.
I just used the airfield data tab and under the Notams section found the r/way is closed16th to 20th July'
Frequ. 121.95 Gd. 118.00 Twr, ATIS 131.02
Two parallel gras runways 11/29 abour 800m.

mike hallam.

[citabria06g]

The PDF on this page has all you need. Pages 11-16 have charts, preferred arrival / departure routes, etc.

Dossier Environnement | Aéro-club de Courbevoie Saint Cyr L'Ecole (http://www.ac-courbevoie.com/dossier-environnement)

Also this may be useful reading:

https://bit.ly/2LqhiTC

[Jan Olieslagers]

If you want the official info, search the www for ATLAS VAC FRANCE and when found name the place in full SAINT CYR L'ECOLE

BTW the pdf I found says ATIS/V : 131.025 FR seulement/only. ( ... ) TWR : 118.0 GND (SOL) : 121.950. Absence ATS : A/A 118.0 FR seulement/only.
which I read as "tower staff have English but when none present/active, R/T is in French only".

[gantshill]

Thanks that's all really helpful. The other thing I found when reading was that the French are very strict on minimums (i.e. 1000' to 5000' AGL minimum depending on size of built up area), but then that's not possible if I am to avoid the base of the Paris TMA. Sounds like common sense would dictate I just fly below the TMA in a straight line towards my destination?? But I also read somewhere about 5-digit fines for breaking the rules... This is all sounding a bit too much but then if it actually is straightforward then I wouldn't want to miss out on what could be a great opportunity! I am considering to go Monday and return Tuesday (weather looking great!)...

[Jan Olieslagers]

No practical experience in that corner. However, on a general note, French authorities have their delicate points, and sometimes to good reason, too. Very generally, one should stay away from Paris, unless well versed. On a more practical note, if you really must go, do gather all information and recommendations you can get at your customs field - LFAT see a lot of UK visitors, even if most are only coming for a cross-channel hamburger run.

[Piper.Classique]

That should make things a lot more clear. Best place to buy it is from the SIA website, and while you are doing that get the VFR pack with the 1,000,000 map and the guide to all the French zones. I have
​been there a few times, main thing is careful about not busting the TMA or any of the little zones. You need to do a fairly tight circuit, as they don't like to annoy the tourists at the palace. It's usually fairly busy and the controllers are not always very experienced, so sometimes the rt can get a bit excitable.
I'm sure you will be using sensible nav aids and moving map! It is feasible map and compass when you know the area, but stressful. And yes, the ground is close.

[gantshill]

Thanks! How would you approach saint Cyr from the north without overflying any towns/built up areas? There seems to be a solid wall east-west along the Seine, but obviously with the TMA above it would be impossible to obtain the necessary 3300-5000’ vertical clearance. This is the thing that is stopping me at the moment as I have studied the approach charts carefully and feel comfortable with those. Sky Demon will be my friend too!!

[Sam Rutherford]

Regularly fly into St.Cyr - something of a hidden gem (with finals over the Versailles gardens!).

There is a low level corridor all around Paris, including north and south of the airfield. From the north, you call the 'greenhouses' and carry on in. If it's a choice, keep clear of Paris airspace, proximity to ground much less likely to cause bother.

Enjoy!

[gantshill]

Regularly fly into St.Cyr - something of a hidden gem (with finals over the Versailles gardens!).

There is a low level corridor all around Paris, including north and south of the airfield. From the north, you call the 'greenhouses' and carry on in. If it's a choice, keep clear of Paris airspace, proximity to ground much less likely to cause bother.

Enjoy!

thank you (just discovered how to quote!) - does this mean I can fly directly over the built up areas in this corridor below the 1500’ TMA floor?? I can see no other way apart from weaving in and out through the gaps (seems highly dangerous at low level with all the existing workload!) Thank you!!

[Sam Rutherford]

Without a map in front of me, that's broadly correct. You're still some way above the built-up areas, not really something to be too worried about.

[Piper.Classique]

Sam has it. You have to be able to glide clear, so overhead may be better than next to. You can try to be discreet... As in not going fine pitch too soon, gentle power changes, definitely not circling to take photos, etc....
it's a lot less scary than the VFR transit of Paris to go to le Bourget. Not that you can do that any more. I had the "pleasure" a few years back, when I went to a women's Day at le Bourget. Oddly enough, via an overnight at Saint Cyr. 150 female crew, only two of us in taildraggers. That was a special opening of the corridor, don't know if it's been opened again since.

[gantshill]

Yeah that all sounds pretty reassuring actually. An easterly wind would be nice so I don't have to play chicken with the TMA when turning base! Think I will plan it all and then see how I feel on the day... Thank you all for your help! If I do make the trip I will report back (hopefully to say how smooth and uneventful it was!)

[alex90]

Yeah that all sounds pretty reassuring actually. An easterly wind would be nice so I don't have to play chicken with the TMA when turning base! Think I will plan it all and then see how I feel on the day... Thank you all for your help! If I do make the trip I will report back (hopefully to say how smooth and uneventful it was!)

I was there a couple of weeks ago - really nice place, although BEWARE that you will need a BP card to get fuel - there is otherwise no fuel available at the airfield, and nobody was keen to sell us any fuel as apparently the prices are not listed at the pumps....!

Its not a hard airfield to go into, but your navigation has got to be dead-on, there is a lot of traffic, and there are a lot of small airfields dotted all over the place. I would recommend looking at Google Earth for the visual reporting points to make sure you know where they are and how to get there without infringing any airspace through the corridor. If you use something like Skydemon it really is simple, but keep your head out of the plane, lots and lots of traffic. Also - remember that French is the common language on frequency and I recommend that you read up on standard calls! :-)

Have a safe flight! :-)