Hainan Airlines

[Captain Spam Can]

I have noticed the banner on here advertising Hainan Airlines based anywhere they fly into and 305K net a year. I’m a UK based A320 skipper with a family and this seems almost too good to be true. I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I don’t think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?) and looked st the very limited info on Hainan. Can anybody advise me the latest please?

[bmw216gt]

I have noticed the banner on here advertising Hainan Airlines based anywhere they fly into and 305K net a year. I’m a UK based A320 skipper with a family and this seems almost too good to be true. I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I don’t think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?) and looked st the very limited info on Hainan. Can anybody advise me the latest please?
You are well informed on the smoke in cockpit. Well if it bothers you..forget about chinese airlines.

[Trash8mofo]

I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I don’t think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?)

You will potentially suck up some 2nd hand smoke while flying with an instructor during your initial qualification and annual checks. But the FOs don't smoke if they knew you don't smoke. That said, there is supposedly such a thing as 3rd hand smoke, meaning all the nicotine particles being stored in the fabrics etc and re-released into the air (think cockpit, car rides, and hotel rooms). The $300K USD net is true though.

[g109]

Anyone has more info regarding the terms and conditions at HAINAN? Do they have commuting contracts?

[Captain Spam Can]

Thanks for the info, their doesn’t seem to be too much recent feedback on working for Hainan or selection. Also any british expats out there how does tax work as it says Chinese tax is paid but does the british HMRC still come after some as it would be 50% with those sums which then makes it not worthwhile.

[Pumba129]

Anyone has more info regarding the terms and conditions at HAINAN? Do they have commuting contracts?
The commuting are 8 days off per month and 11 days off per month. 4 weeks on 4 weeks off has been suspended now.

[Count von Altibar]

Looks like more evidence all is not well at HNA...

https://www.ft.com/content/bcedf80c-854a-11e8-a29d-73e3d454535d

[chinafly]

For UK residents working in China; you can offset the tax paid in China, but will still have a 30+% liability for HMRC.

[one day soon]

For UK residents working in China; you can offset the tax paid in China, but will still have a 30+% liability for HMRC.

I presume this only applies for those on a commuting contract and staying more than 90 nights in the UK?
If you aren't and are paying tax at source of employment I'm led to believe that no tax is due in the UK

[hunterboy]

I suppose it would depend where you are resident . If you are a UK resident, as defined in the RDR3 doc
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt
then you would have to declare your worldwide income to HMRC and pay any difference. I can only assume that historically people may well have forgotten to declare, however, since Jan 2016, China and the UK/EU have automatic information sharing and I would suggest not declaring it to HMRC could lead to a world of hurt in the future.
Same would go for those resident in the EU, unless you were on a scheme something along the lines as Portugal’s NHR scheme.

[one day soon]

I suppose it would depend where you are resident . If you are a UK resident, as defined in the RDR3 doc
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt
then you would have to declare your worldwide income to HMRC and pay any difference. I can only assume that historically people may well have forgotten to declare, however, since Jan 2016, China and the UK/EU have automatic information sharing and I would suggest not declaring it to HMRC could lead to a world of hurt in the future.
Same would go for those resident in the EU, unless you were on a scheme something along the lines as Portugal’s NHR scheme.

I think that supports what I said albeit far more eloquently!
If declaring China as residency for a 3 yr contract, tax is paid, you notify HMRC that you are no longer a UK tax resident and prove so via the new test system then there is no tax payable to HMRC on your return.

[Captain Spam Can]

Thanks for the info, it’s a shame the pay isn’t net including UK taxes, I wouldn’t be resident in China. Any comparisons lately between Hainan and China southern? I see they do a reserve roster out of LHR.

[bringbackthe80s]

Yes but the tax thing goes for all of these commuting contracts.
Obviously if you’re commuting then you’re liable for taxes in your country, there’s no way around it. Unless you move your residency and spend less than 180 days etc but still, if you have a family back in Europe then good luck proving you’ not liable.
I’d say it’s worth it for someone looking for a family adventure and to get out of Europe, or if you have a brilliant plan with 3/4 residencies around the world to suit the purporse. Otherwise to be honest I don’t see the advantage considering half the salary (in dollars) will go to the taxman.

[Fareastdriver]

You have to remember that to qualify for non residence tax status you have to be out of the UK for the whole tax year apart from your 180 days allowance. If you go or come back within the tax year you are liable for that year's taxes.

[Babbalito]

As I understand it, UK and PRC have a dual taxation agreement in place. Assuming your employer in China pays ALL your taxes, as they promise to, and a certificate is issued to that effect, you will not be liable to UK tax on your Chinese salary even as a UK resident.

[krismiler]

Think carefully before joining Hainan due to their current financial problems. Rumours of some agencies not being able to pay their pilots, Airbus stopping further deliveries as well. Hopefully they are "too big to fail" and it gets sorted out.

China Southern may be a better option at the moment.

[mach85]

You have to remember that to qualify for non residence tax status you have to be out of the UK for the whole tax year apart from your 180 days allowance. If you go or come back within the tax year you are liable for that year's taxes.

I think you will find it is nowhere near 180 days unfortunately. Nearer 90-120 max in UK before you become tax resident. Depends on your ties to the country.......

As mentioned, if your Chinese airline pays ALL tax in China then there wont be an issue in UK as the overall tax rates in China are very similar to UK and as such no top up required. The issue is finding out whether the airline you are moving to pays full tax before committing as otherwise you will get an unwelcome tax bill.

Cheers

[SunNFun]

Think carefully before joining Hainan due to their current financial problems. Rumours of some agencies not being able to pay their pilots, Airbus stopping further deliveries as well. Hopefully they are "too big to fail" and it gets sorted out.

China Southern may be a better option at the moment.

Of course anyone should make their own research, but the current news regarding the above stated financial troubles relate to HNA Group and not Hainan Airlines. The two are currently underway to be financially disentangled. Agencies not paying their pilots is because said agencies are not managing their financials properly. Hainan Airlines has in the past (twice I believe) delayed their salary payments by up to 10 days; but again that did not affect me. I have been paid by my agency each and every month on the first of the month. Also Hainan starts taking delivery of a new 787 next week and will receive more every 21 days until the end of the year.

I'm not saying that working in China or for Hainan Airlines specifically is without risk, but IMHO it's worth it and you're getting rewarded for it handsomely. Picking a reputable Agency and sufficient LoL Insurance etc are a very important part of that.

[LH777]

Regarding smoking on the flight deck - the next revision of CCAR 121 will ban smoking. Some Chinese airlines already have due to a recent incident.

[Captain Spam Can]

Thanks for the info lots of of ‘food for thought’ I think the next step is to speak to Longreach about selection etc and contact HMRC to clarify the tax position as it just wouldn’t be worth it otherwise. I know it’s 20K a month for a reason. Its no brainier one has no job or is unhappy but leaving somewhere you enjoy is difficult but 20K a month is life changing! Any opinions on which carrier is a better place to be reserve roster UK with CSA or uk commuting base Hainan?

[Its Maui]

My lot issue a tax cert. in English declaring all taxes are fully paid in China. And no smoking on my FD.

[SunNFun]

Someone DM'ed me with questions regarding the Hainan Contract but unfortunately I can't message back, because their "mailbox is full". Please resolve that and I will be happy to assist.

[pedalpedalpedal]

Not for everyone, but I really enjoy it! Smoking not a huge issue very few guys do, but there are still some 😝, there will be less and less! Best job I have ever had, and things are getting better all the time. Patience required, tougher for those with young families as weekly rosters, and a little tough to get “all” your extra vacation days, but many do get back-back leave even in the middle of summer. If your fleet flies to your base (home), they will do their best to roster you those flights!

[hunterboy]

I’d also be careful relying on HMRC for tax advice. Much better to pay a tax lawyer that specialises in expats. A consultation would only cost a few hundred quid but would save you hundreds of thousands potentially.

[Captain Spam Can]

Thanks for the advice and glad to see one positive post although I get the idea how **** it is flying there hence the pay. I’ll speak to a tax adviser reference living in UK and paying Chinese tax as they have a dual taxation agreement and I’m enjoying reading ‘flying upside down’. The only thing worrying about this is the thought of being fired having left a good job 😱

[Global Aviator]

That’s the biggest issue in China from what I have heard. The potential to fail a medical, fail a sim and then what?

Sure most get on just fine, it’s personal at times.

As I say to people unless you can afford to be out of a job or no pay for six months choose wisely.

Yes it’s playing devils advicate and worse case scenarios.

On the flip side, it all works out and your pocketing 20 large a month.

[Gulpers]

How does the commuting contract actually work? Do they allow a travel day to get to China to start? Or does your roster start you from your commuting base?
I’ve heard there’s quite a few fines / withheld safety bonus for minor stuff - is this the case?

What is life actually like for a commuting expat Capt at Hainan?

Thanks in advance :ok:

[Captloumedina]

Hello fellow aviators.
Im an A320 captain looking to join Hainan.
I got a couple of questions regarding commute, salary,china housing among others.
If there is anyone out there who is currently working at Hainan who can help me out please let me know.
Thank you.

Luis

[Captain Spam Can]

Can someone tell me what percentage Chinese income tax the airlines pay on these contracts. I have a feeling I would be liable to pay the difference to HMRC if it was less than UK tax (which it probably is) as I would still be classed as UK resident (commuting). UK tax is going to be 50%.

[Camelonglide]

Hello Gents,

trying to gather some infos regarding Hainan B787 11consecutive off days pattern.

What is life like for a commuting expat Capt at Hainan?
Pro and Cons?

Thanks in advance

[alwaysflyinverted]

Can anyone advise which areas in Beijing expats are living? am trying to do some costings etc on houses/apartments and need to know what areas to compare. also interested in Camelonglides question as well...
Thanks in advance

[Mof]

For those who want to know something about commuting contract in HNA, there are 2 options (8 day off & 11days off)

On 11 days off contract, the life is not bad 19 days ON/ 11 days OFF. If you add some days from annual leave, it becomes 17 days ON/13 days OFF. Now, looks like better :)

About taxes, what I’ve heard is around 30-35%, but really don’t know because it doesn’t affect me. If I know the exactly figure in the future, I’ll let you know.

Cost living in Beijing, close to airport in new compound, 2 bedrooms around 7-8000 RMB

Cheers

[bigdaviet]

So they are not currently offering month on month off or two weeks on two weeks off?

[burnable gomi]

For those who want to know something about commuting contract in HNA, there are 2 options (8 day off & 11days off)

On 11 days off contract, the life is not bad 19 days ON/ 11 days OFF. If you add some days from annual leave, it becomes 17 days ON/13 days OFF. Now, looks like better :)

About taxes, what I’ve heard is around 30-35%, but really don’t know because it doesn’t affect me. If I know the exactly figure in the future, I’ll let you know.

Cost living in Beijing, close to airport in new compound, 2 bedrooms around 7-8000 RMB

Cheers

What does the schedule look like when you're in China? How many of those 19 or 22 days on are you working and how many do you get off? If you choose the Resident option how many days off a month do you normally get? Are they lots of single days or usually in blocks of 2? 3? 4?

[Mof]

Usually the pattern is 4 days ON/ 1-2 days OFF (at least 36 hrs). What it means on a 11 days OFF contract is 11+5-6 days off per month. Also when choose the resident option is the same than commuting. nothing change

[burnable gomi]

Usually the pattern is 4 days ON/ 1-2 days OFF (at least 36 hrs). What it means on a 11 days OFF contract is 11+5-6 days off per month. Also when choose the resident option is the same than commuting. nothing change

Thanks. for the 4 days on are you away the whole time or will you often spend the night at your base? Are there many working days where you will finish work early in the day, before noon, or start in the evening and therefore still get most of the day at home either before or after work?

[Tlo]

Hi Guys,

I am looking at joining Hainan Airlines but have heard a lot of scary stories about China in general. Just want more info from fellow skippers to make an educated decision.
I am planning to base my family in Oz as the Mrs would be happy there and commute. I like the money they are offering, but with a young family I would like to know if its stable too?
How are they to work for? I can see that they have stopped month on month off, is this true? Also, am I able to combine my annual leave with the commuting days off?

Thanks in advance!

[MAVEN]

Any ideas about accommodation in Beijing or where the expat areas are? Shared accom is okay.

[bringbackthe80s]

Taxes. Rember taxes! If you’re going to live anywhere else than China it is safe to divide any salary you see advertised by 2 to get the net figure. Just saying

[reamer]

Taxes. Rember taxes! If you’re going to live anywhere else than China it is safe to divide any salary you see advertised by 2 to get the net figure. Just saying
They have stopped the month on month off so anyone starting there now will be living in China for tax purposes.

[bringbackthe80s]

Yes, disregarding what roster pattern you get, as long as you live in China as a full time resident and don’t have your wife and kids living anywhere else in the world (going to school, using doctors etc..) then you of course pay taxes only in China. I wouldn’t see a problem with doing that, in fact it could be a nice adventure.
Knowing my fellow colleagues though, I strongly suspect a lot do not plan to do that, and if your kids go to school in the uk for example, then there is where you will be paying (a lot of) taxes, even if you spend there 30 days per year.

[FlightDetent]

They have stopped the month on month off so anyone starting there now will be living in China for tax purposes.That's precisely how it works not.

[FlyingUpsideDown]

Taxes. Rember taxes! If you’re going to live anywhere else than China it is safe to divide any salary you see advertised by 2 to get the net figure. Just saying

Not correct. Some countries like Australia, have double taxation agreements. I am a resident of both China and Australia for taxation purposes. I submit my tax return in Australia and pay zero tax. So I get to keep the full amount of my USD salary.

[bringbackthe80s]

Not correct. Some countries like Australia, have double taxation agreements. I am a resident of both China and Australia for taxation purposes. I submit my tax return in Australia and pay zero tax. So I get to keep the full amount of my USD salary.

Ok so if you are correct (we’ll find out in 10 years at least) let’s say that if you commute with anywhere in the world apart from OZ, then it is safe to divide the salary by 2.

[FlyingUpsideDown]

Ok so if you are correct (we’ll find out in 10 years at least) let’s say that if you commute with anywhere in the world apart from OZ, then it is safe to divide the salary by 2.

Wrong again. China has over 100 agreements with countries on the avoidance of double taxation. You may want to google it for your own information.

[Tlo]

Thanks for your comments guys, really helpful indeed.

I am doing ok tax wise as before I sign a contract I am planning to seek advice from a tax consultant.

Brigbackthe80s - I like your conservative approach. Believe me that's what I would be doing too just to ensure that I keep all contingencies in mind.

FlyingUpsideDown- Thanks mate. Will definitely do more research on the double tax agreement!

Cheers

[reamer]

That's precisely how it works not.
You might want to brush up on your double tax treaties too.

[Lostmywaycanuk]

You are well informed on the smoke in cockpit. Well if it bothers you..forget about chinese airlines.
I can back him up on that one ! Even since the two clowns turned the pacs off in cruise these guys still smoke two pack a day in the cockpit !
Safest country in the world bud

[Mof]

Lostmywaycanuk, you must be a really unlucky guy, on my flights when instructors made the checks, they are using E-cigarettes something I don’t bother me. Of course, between more than 2000 pilots a few maybe break the rules

[FlightDetent]

You might want to brush up on your double tax treaties too. It never hurts to refresh old knowledge.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/595x259/us_prc_2c93bfa8b4df95900ae18620a723472eef3f1cef.png
US-PRC
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/410x376/uk_prc_6f20ec8ba2db80c89adf8fc17e82f67864973096.png
UK-PRC

Nothing seems to have changed since 5 NOV, lucky me can stick with the old tricks. Feel free to PM me when you are ready to discuss Article 22.

2 pc of advice for your wait:
- never take a tax advice from a pilot
- never take a tax advice from a online forum

[reamer]

It never hurts to refresh old knowledge.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/595x259/us_prc_2c93bfa8b4df95900ae18620a723472eef3f1cef.png
US-PRC
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/410x376/uk_prc_6f20ec8ba2db80c89adf8fc17e82f67864973096.png
UK-PRC

Nothing seems to have changed since 5 NOV, lucky me can stick with the old tricks. Feel free to PM me when you are ready to discuss Article 22.

2 pc of advice for your wait:
- never take a tax advice from a pilot
- never take a tax advice from a online forum


You have just proven me right and you wrong. Thank you.

[FlightDetent]

Let's agree in writing then. Otherwise, this may get confusing for people not on our expert level. :hmm:

"The number of days per the calendar year one stays in PR China, or abroad from own's country, does not change a thing about how the taxes should be done. In avoidance of doubt, namely the (result of) half-a-year test (183 days)

[for US] Has no effect. Paragraph 2 will be activated if all (a)+(b)+(c) = TRUE. In our situation discussed both (b) as well as (c) are FALSE indeed, thus regardless of (a) the paragraph 2 is always void."


[non-US] Does not enter the equation at all /see notwithstanding (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/notwithstanding) here/.
Signed: FD,

Signed: ........

[terra_nullius]

Chinese law prohibits direct employment by any Chinese airline, all flight crews are employed by an agency.
For tax reasons for the airlines most (probably all) are located in Hongkong. You are employed and paid by the agency. The agency then puts you on a service agreement with the Chinese airline, you are leased back for which the agency gets a fee.

Basically there are two contracts: 1 between you and the agency and 2 service contract between the agency and the airline.

You need to legally dissect the tax agreement:

All tax treaties are based on the OECD model treaty and adapted to the specific situation between the contracting states.

Remember the treaty is not written with the tax payer in mind, but with the tax collector in mind, the title is misleading (as usual...)

Part 1 of all the treaties describes which state CAN collect the tax, it decides which state gets the full 'lute'.
Part 2 describes if the other state can still get some of the tax if the tax is higher than in the first state (preventing double taxation).

Incidentally that gives the outcome for us personally; as where to pay which tax.

First you will have to find out where you are a resident, that depends on art. 4
If you only have a permanent home in your home country, you are a resident there.
If you only have a permanent home in China, you are resident there.
If you have both a permanent home in your home country and China, it depends on where the centre of vital interest is; where your family is, schools, clubs, etc
If you have no permanent home in either, you are a resident where you have your habitual abode (where are you normally spend most of your time)
If all the above is not applicable you are deemed a resident from the State your are a national of.

Permanent home is not a hotel....

For arguments sake lets put it that you are deemed a resident of your home country:

Art. 14/15 would then be as follows:

1. In principle your home country (contracting state) can collect tax on your world income, however if part of that is earned in China (other state), China can tax you on that part.
As a general rule taxes in our home countries are higher than in China, according to art. 23 from the model (different per treaty, for instance UK art. 22)
the home country can then collect the difference between the two.

2. Notwithstanding: even though article 1 gives China the right to collect tax, in case of the following 3 are true, ONLY the home country can collect tax:
a) backward reasoning: you have been less than 183 days in China (more than 183 days in your home country)
AND
b) your are paid by your agency which is in itself NOT a resident of China (they reside in Hongkong)
AND
c) The agency is a separate entity form the airline.

Normally we are more than 183 days in China (or less the 183 days in your home country)
a) is not true...
b) is true
c) might be true depending on your agency

As it was AND for all 3 that means that paragraph 2 is not applicable and both China and your home country may collect tax.

Then art 15 paragraph 3:
Notwithstanding: Even if art 1+2 where applicable, if the employment involves international traffic on aircraft, China (the other state) may collect tax.
Which is the case for us, so China may collect tax as well as your home country.

Mark the difference between the wording in art. 1+3 and art. 2: In art. 2 it explicitly mentions that ONLY the home country can collect tax, in 1+3 the wording is such that BOTH the home country and China can collect tax, in that case you pay full tax in China where that amount is then deducted towards tax owed in your home country.

If your are deemed a China resident it is all very simple, you only pay taxes in China unless you have income in your home country.
So make sure you are seen as a resident of China!

Different treaties have different rules concerning double tax and what you own to whom, but this is the basic, so check your home countries tax agreement with China to see what needs to be payed and do inform yourself with expert councel.

[safelife]

This might be true in your case, but not for others.
It is in no way applicable to my case, for example.
Agency in Austria, taxable in China, paid by the airline in China, 183 days rule does not apply (any more).
And so on. Each case is different, mostly depending on your home countries' rules.
To us article 15 means that only China can tax our income.

[terra_nullius]

This might be true in your case, but not for others.
It is in no way applicable to my case, for example.
Agency in Austria, taxable in China, paid by the airline in China, 183 days rule does not apply (any more).
And so on. Each case is different, mostly depending on your home countries' rules.
To us article 15 means that only China can tax our income.

That's why I said that different countries have different tax treaties, Austria is known to deviate and as I gather in a positive way.
But this is what the model contract is, and most tax treaties follow the model.

Your home countries rules all depend on that countries tax treaty with CN, so yes there are variations, but the given example is how this one works out, not my home country btw.

[FlightDetent]

Nothing to do with Austria. Yours arrangement is different to others.

The contracts I saw were tri-party plus the agency-pilot addendum just like you say, however strictly employed by the airline direct (in observance of, and governed by the Chinese law, with Chinese master version in case of dispute). With several statements explaining the role of the agent to be: an agent as opposed to an employer.

Still I agree with how you dissect the situation.

1) the individual's country of tax residency is determined [Art 4], then
2) it is determined where the taxes arising from the employment are to be deducted [Art 14/15] then
3) a clause is provided that
- allows the country of residence to claim the delta of taxes if in their favour
- forces the country of residence to credit all amounts of taxes already paid

Let's not hijack the thread any further.

a) The claim that 183 days test directly changes your tax residence (1) is pure nonsense. In the UK case, e.g., it is not even part of the assessment conditions.
b) IN GENERAL, the 183 days test is a part of the matrix that affects the outcome of (2) Art 14/15. Typically FOR PILOTS the treaty would have a stand-alone paragraph directly explaining the aircrew situation, without the use of the 183 days test.

[terra_nullius]

@FlightDetent

It helps if you state whom you (dis)agree with.

The HNA contracts are between two parties; the agency and the pilot, HNA is mentioned in the contract, but only as the service airline and is not a signatory. Only the two main parties (agency/pilot) sign the contract. At least in the 2017 versions. The service agreement is strictly between HNA and agency, you don't get to see that one....

Some 'agents' are only intermediate parties where they get a onetime finders fee, then you end up signing with HNA's own agency which is a separate entity and located in HKG, others are real agents which you sign a contract with and are employed by them.

Since the beginning of the 2018 I believe they have a NTR transition contract which is a tripartite (HNA/agent/pilot) contract concerning and limited to a training bond. That goes together with the individual contract between the agent and the pilot.

Th individual countries implement the different treaties their own way, but from a strict legal viewpoint this is what you get. And yes paragraph 3 of art. 15 usually allows the other state to collect the taxes where the home state can collect any surplus.

Btw it's the first time I've seen a good conversation about taxes, which is an important issue fn decision making wether to go the expat/china way.
Many people just throw something in what they might have heard or think to be true, but if you just dive into your home countries tax treaty it is not that hard, though it usually means that you owe more taxes than you would like :)

[A321drvr]

Hello Ladies and Gents,

Just a quick one: which agency should i go through on applying to Hainan? Any pros, cons?

Regards

[Zephyr86]

Hainan Airline steward here, for those wondering about the financial situation we indeed went trhough some hard time recently; us cabin crew saw our salary delayed for a few months.
But as someone said in this post, HNA seems to big to fail, government recently injected some money in our company. This support from the party could make HNA a safer bet i guess.
On a side note, Pilots working here are pretty satisfied with the salary and commuting options. We fly A330 B737 B787 and HNA will be acquiring more A350 so pilots with this QT might be interested.

[ONEWORLD_86]

Hi all, quick question regarding NTR 330 positions in Hainan, what are these like? I would look to bring my family over with (a young son/wife etc) so thoughts on expat community and schools would be greatly appreciated. Is getting Hainan as a base unrealistic? Thought of sunshine is at the moment is more than tempting....��

Cheers,

[Zephyr86]

Hi all, quick question regarding NTR 330 positions in Hainan, what are these like? I would look to bring my family over with (a young son/wife etc) so thoughts on expat community and schools would be greatly appreciated. Is getting Hainan as a base unrealistic? Thought of sunshine is at the moment is more than tempting....��

Cheers,

So far, HNA has no foreign pilots based anywhere else than Beijing, so I’m pretty sure you won’t be based in Hainan itself.

[tommyknock]

@One world 86
i would seriously keep myself away from Hainan and all its subsidiaries ,a very popular recruitment agency a while ago stopped accepting application for Hainan NTR captain due to the high failure rate during training but it is up to you.

If you go to China make sure to reduce to the minimum the chance to have any problem during training and applying for a type you are not familiar with to me is not the best option.

I know that money is good but trust me that's for a reason.

Try other airlines, maybe less money but better working environments
Again it is just a suggestion.

cheers
Tommy

[IB737ZG]

Actually I'm on 737 based in Haikou more than one year now. As 330 you can be based both Beijing and Shenzhen but Shenzhen is almost impossible for you as new. On 737 you can be also in Guangzhou and Shenzhen, again Shenzhen very hard to get.
Spend with your family few days in Beijing and then decide between resident and commuting contract. My choice is commuting but depends on many variables

[Count von Altibar]

Looks like all Hainan recruitment halted. Makes sense with the financial mess they're in.

[danny_chi_1975]

According to my friend who is working in HNA recruitment , HNA will keep recruiting expat just not through agents, but directly hire. Some agents are providing wrong information to make people choice other company since they are not able to make commission from HNA.

[safelife]

The first step then would be to provide for a way to apply directly; and to advertise such positions.
If this is going to be like the Hainan Overseas project they attempted to run couple of years back, we can already consider it failed.
Oh and I've been flying as a captain in China, and no way I'd attempt that without an agency in between.

[HURZ]

Received this yesterday from a colleague

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x1349/ed4c2329_c656_447f_b112_ba3e1be5e30e_210419c20c3462bffa87080 326b8b9e26ad15bbb.jpeg

[NoN1]

I think you will find that is a directive from CAAC.

[bafanguy]

I think you will find that is a directive from CAAC.

Why would CAAC ban Hainan from recruiting expats ? Do other Chinese airlines have a similar ban ?

[ALM]

Not banning at all. Changing to ‘direct employment’.

[Count von Altibar]

This is all very shady. Hainan are not saying anything other than the orders came from on-high withing the company, perhaps it is from the CAAC. What about the other airlines, they appear to be still using agencies? I'm confused by all of this carry on, I know they can save on agency fees but there must be more to it.

[Jammed]

Hello all,

Do expats drive? Can you convert driving license or how it works?
Is the pollution getting better or worse over the years?
How easy is to get european living base for the commuters?
How long is from the application until a pilot is checked to line(average time assuming everything goes normal)? How is the salary during all the process?
Until what position can an expat pilot go? TRE? Mngt?
How do contacts work? Do a expat pilot even become under permanent contract or is always renewed term contracts?
Working environment? Communication issues? Cockpit crew, cabin crew, ground staff? Relationship between pilots and management?

Do you guys working for HNA feel cozy and welcomed and are relaxed at work, or not really?

Thank you for the info/feedback

[Jrossi7]

Usually the pattern is 4 days ON/ 1-2 days OFF (at least 36 hrs). What it means on a 11 days OFF contract is 11+5-6 days off per month. Also when choose the resident option is the same than commuting. nothing change

So I understand the 36 hours off after 4 days on are always spent at your base city? Even in commuting contract?

About the 8 and 11 consecutive days off per month that is only a commuting roster benefit. I asked at Hainan.

[Robmeister1978]

Hi guys,

Hopefully there's somebody here already flying 737 at Hainan that can answer this question:

I recently heard that 11 days off per month schedule pilot should get 20 Vacation days by contract but in reality this is not given by the company?

I woud be really interested in 17-13(19-11 +2 vacation days = 17-13 schedule but if vacation not given the company I currently work for in China is still better.....

Thanks for info!!!

[SilverFearn]

There has been very little recent feedback on the current situation in Hainan.

I applied recently for the 11 days off roster on the 787 and would be interested in hearing from anyone already on the fleet.

What is it like on the inside? Is it one of the better jobs in China? Do the reverse rostered foreign bases work as advertised?

Many Thanks

[TobiA320]

Hello ladies and gentlemans.

I'm currently looking for a widebody transition in China. I've came across "CSA wannabes" and there was some questions that I hope to have an answer.

1/ How long is training from typing to full CAPT? (A330 NTR)

2/ Do new comers have to spend time as Relief Captain before designated as PIC? (Approx how long?)

3/ What aee the current bases available for new comers.

Thanks alot for taking time with my questions.

Fly safe
TOBI

[yesbutnobut]

There has been very little recent feedback on the current situation in Hainan.

I applied recently for the 11 days off roster on the 787 and would be interested in hearing from anyone already on the fleet.

What is it like on the inside? Is it one of the better jobs in China? Do the reverse rostered foreign bases work as advertised?

Many Thanks
The RSP option isn't very clear from the recruitment website. Can anyone give any feedback on a B787 RSP roster to NZ or Aussie, maybe provide a roster copy?

Thanks in advance.

[Captain Spam Can]

As far I’m aware again on don’t do RSP, I was told they try and roster you out of your home base at the beginning and end of your block which can be of course anywhere on the Hainan network. How is this working out for people? Are they true to their word and is this where your based from the start of your contract? As I see on one agency’s small print, one can only qualify for the nominated base after 2 years! Obviously now the only agency is Hainan.

[tommyknock]

the show must go on

[QD992]

Anyone has more info regarding the terms and conditions at HAINAN? Do they have commuting contracts?
HNA is in trouble. All HNA group airlines are in trouble.

[Flyingchick73]

Hello everyone
Can somebody working in Hainan please PM me the Flight Operations or Human Resources or Recruitment number from Hainan Headquarters?
i need urgently to contact a friend who is unaware of serious family problems.

Thanks

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