Did you brake hard anytime in your flying career?

[carnival30]

Hello all,

Today I had to brake hard (B738) to take a left turn on a taxiway as I almost crossed abeam it. It was a mistake and I should have continued and ask for reclearance than braking hard and making it somehow. Cabin crew informed she had a very minor injury and all passengers were ok. This is the first time I have committed a mistake like this and its bugging me a lot inside. Did you have to brake hard anytime in your career? What would have been the correct actions in such situation?

Thanks in advance.

[jack11111]

Not braking hard and taking the next turn off is the ground equivalent of going around. It must be considered.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Post #6 by 411A is an example of what you are asking.

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/399535-boeing-707-stopping-distance-all-engines-v1.html

[Pugilistic Animus]

Now my decision on hard braking...off RWY at the next turnoff then, except in an emergency, of course

[vilas]

What would have been the correct actions in such situation? What you feel about it is good learning and you already know the answer. Accepting such clearances is conditional. That's why the call LANDING was changed to CONTINUE as a gentle reminder you don't have to.

[FullWings]

Cabin crew informed she had a very minor injury and all passengers were ok.
Do you know how that happened? I aim to use consistent braking for passenger comfort but I am secure in the knowledge that should it be required, I can use full braking and max reverse without injury to the occupants or damage to the aircraft, if I have been told the cabin is secure.

I agree with the other posters that if it looks like you'll miss an exit (all of us do from time to time) then go for the next one rather than standing on the brakes. For runway occupancy, the worst scenario is to brake down to a low speed, miss the exit then trundle to one further down.

These days I tend to use an auto brake setting that will definitely stop me at or before my chosen exit, then reduce it later in the roll. As a passenger, it feels like something has gone wrong if braking levels increase during the rollout or become jerky.

[sonicbum]

Cabin crew informed she had a very minor injury and all passengers were ok.

Out of curiosity, how did the cabin crew get injured ?

[compressor stall]

Unless the Cabin Crew was injured by something flying....she should've been in the alert position, feet on floor and sitting on hands, head against headrest. Something odd there.

That you are obviously concerned about it is a good thing. You have learned something, you won't do it again, you'll tell the stories in the bar and anyone who talks to you will have that in the back of their mind when they stomp on the brakes next to make a turnoff.

[safetypee]

Car 30, why was this a ‘mistake’. What was the plan, why was this choice of action chosen?
Why did the actual braking distance deviate from the plan. Did it matter either way, brake harder or continue down the runway (taxiway ?), assuming that both options were operationally safe.

The issue of cabin crew is separate safety problem which you should not have to worry about during landing.

Use the brakes for safety not comfort, brake as hard as you like, any time, for the situation as you see it.

[Cole Burner]

Sounds to me this was on the landing roll out?

Sounds to me like you've made that up...

[compressor stall]

Well that was my assumption as well. I guess the OP could clarify.

[Officer Kite]

Today I had to brake hard (B738) to take a left turn on a taxiway


sounds like it was on a taxiway not during roll out

[Officer Kite]

well it says turn left 'on a taxiway', not left 'onto' a taxiway ... anyway could be down to personal interpretation

[sonicbum]

I was also under the impression that he was referring to the landing roll.

[Jetjock330]

Did you brake as hard as Capt Roger Victor,? Capt Roger Victor? ��

[Pugilistic Animus]

JetJock330 :}

[Skyjob]

Basic landing preparation:

- calculate Landing Distance Required
- assess which preferred exit is to be used and if unable which alternatives there are
- determine what configuration is required to achieve LDR < LDA
- select configuration which is required of achieving LDR < LDA
- during landing, if not touching down on markers, consider using options determined in alternatives identified above instead of excessive braking, unless that's your only alternative option

Note: I recently flew in Dublin with some very experienced FO's, all of whom very capable of handling the B738 and in company and base for some years. When asked how long the LDA is for the planned runway 28 exit E6 to vacate as being briefed, it was shocking to see how many did not know/realise the exit they planned for had a published LDA of several hundred meters less then what they thought it was (600m less LDA in one case!), yet the LDA is published in table format in our Airport General pages of the charts. At no point did any of the FO's suggest to do a landing calculation to determine the landing configuration required to make the elected exit safely, each referring to the fact they and all their captains based in Dublin "always land in this configuration". It is when landing are done, when referring to a configuration that "everyone always lands with here" exits are missed or heavy braking is required. Best option, to take control and use next exit safely, instead of heavy braking to make a RET, which in Dublin E6 case is not designed for standard RET speed but reduced by nearly 50%)

[neilki]

Hello all,

Today I had to brake hard (B738) to take a left turn on a taxiway as I almost crossed abeam it. It was a mistake and I should have continued and ask for reclearance than braking hard and making it somehow. Cabin crew informed she had a very minor injury and all passengers were ok. This is the first time I have committed a mistake like this and its bugging me a lot inside. Did you have to brake hard anytime in your career? What would have been the correct actions in such situation?

Thanks in advance.
Congratulations on your first mistake! I loose count most days.
I envy your European and Middle Eastern open expanses of concrete. Here in the the US we can be a little constrained by rivers, buildings and oceans.
KLGA & KDCA are my fave stations to use 3000PSI of hydraulic effort. A mile or so of runway and an exciting transition to large bodies of water..
On landing everyone is strapped in. Taxiing out is another matter all together and planning braking distances ahead of time makes the hotel shuttle ride less unpleasant...
~

[speedrestriction]

Auto brake has eroded pilots’ braking skills ie. a lot of guys who use auto brake for every landing seem to be incapable of judging the braking effort required from touchdown to a specific exit whilst using manual brakes. Skills must be practiced regularly otherwise they will diminish. There is nothing wrong or even uncomfortable with heavy braking provided it is progressive and smooth ie. don’t rapidly change the deceleration rate - smooth increase, smooth decrease of braking effort. Brake for safety first, comfort second and economy third.

[pineteam]

Hi Carnival30,

I luckily never had to brake hard since I quit bush flying. Now flying the Minibus with long runways only on our scheduled destinations it’s quite unlikely in normal operations.
I salute your good attitude and thank you for sharing your experience.
Edit: After reading again your initial post, I suspect you were taxiing and was about to miss a taxiway. Anyway, I’m sure you are not the first one nor the last one. We all do mistakes. You will get over it with time. I once forgot to put the tail stand on a Cessna Caravan assuming the new Fo did it and it felt on his tail while boarding.. Lol. I was feeling sh*t too. xD

[Centaurus]

Many years ago I flew for a 737-200 airline operating to small Pacific atolls and islands. Some runways were built of crushed coral with lengths varying from as low as 5000 feet to others like Guam for instance, of 10,000 ft. Good airmanship dictated a walk-around after each landing and in particular to carefully assess the brakes for overheating where moderate to hard braking may have taken place.
A crew flew one of the aircraft, where it had undergone scheduled servicing, from Hong Kong via Taipei to Guam where I took it over for the next sectors from Guam to Ponape and to final destination Nauru.
In small airlines you get to know the pilots renowned for their heavy braking technique since the brakes are usually much hotter than when other pilots land. Hence the careful assessment of brake temperature during the walk around . At Guam I waved my hand carefully in the vicinity of the brakes after taking over the aircraft from a known heavy braker. One set of wheel brakes were noticeable cooler than the other. I put this down to the long runway and the roll-through required to turn off at the far end and uneven foot pedal pressure by the pilot.

We departed Guam for the 1.3 hour flight to Ponape where the runway was wet coral and 5400 ft long. This required an accurate touch down speed (none of this extra for Mum and the kids). During refuelling I did the walk around and waved my hand between the wheels to assess the heat. One side was quite warm (I did not risk a burnt hand by actually touching the brake area) while the other was cool. I thought maybe the cool side had gone through puddles of water on the runway. But I had my suspicions. We carried an engineer but he was not concerned. We had a 45 minute turn around and next landing was on the 5600 ft runway at Nauru where the aircraft was to stay overnight. Again I checked both sets of brakes and as expected one side was hot but the other side cold There had been no pull to one side during the landing run probably because full reverse was used and brakes eased on around 80 knots.

I wrote up the brake anomaly in the maintenance release and went to the pub. The engineer examined the brakes and found the outboard brake on the right set of wheels was disconnected - probably at Hong Kong during servicing. That is why the hand waving found the brakes that side were cool. It was fortunate that we had not experienced a high speed rejected take off requiring max braking on all brakes or we might have finished up in the ocean at some of the destinations.