Ifnot Bartolini Air in Poland then what... GoldWings Warsaw?

[JakubEGSC]

Hi All,

Since Bartolini Air, Lodz, Poland was my first choice for my CPL ME IR but their waiting list is now 12 months for the course, I am looking for opinions/experiences on alternative ATOs. I am open to suggestions, I just want to stay in sub 20.000 euros region for the package.

I have considered GoldWings in Warsaw, however I encountered some negative reports on PPRUNE, still everyone deserves second chance, so it would be great to hear others' experiences.

all best,
Jakub

[flapsupboy]

I too have the same problem.But I think its worth waiting.Anyway I have heard Smart Aviation is also good.They also have a new Tecnam P2006t Twin MkII.Prices are also quite similar.

[JakubEGSC]

I dont think Smart Aviation offer this package on their website, but I have sent request to them for clarification.

Im 37... no time to wait LOL

[cavok_flyer]

Hi All,

Since Bartolini Air, Lodz, Poland was my first choice for my CPL ME IR but their waiting list is now 12 months for the course, I am looking for opinions/experiences on alternative ATOs. I am open to suggestions, I just want to stay in sub 20.000 euros region for the package.

I have considered GoldWings in Warsaw, however I encountered some negative reports on PPRUNE, still everyone deserves second chance, so it would be great to hear others' experiences.

all best,
Jakub

Check out Air Alliance (https://aa-fc.de/) in Germany (EDFE); I am doing my ME with them right now in a DA42, and I think you might come in on budget. They also have a base (actually their HQ) in EDGS that has a IFR approach. Fresh, professional team with relatively new a/c. The weather in summer tends to better around EDFE, though.

[JakubEGSC]

Hey Mr Cavok, thanks, I will check them out! :)

[JakubEGSC]

Hey Negan, I have my PPL already (painful but beautiful route via ultralights and LAPL) and 50% hours built too. Just shopping around for CPL/ME/IR package.

[JakubEGSC]

Hi Negan,

yes I just contacted them, looks good! I will visit over the next two weeks and hopefully book for the winter.

Prices same as GoldWings and tiny tad less than Bartolini.

J

[Banana Joe]

I'd be very cautious with Smart Aviation in Poland instead.

Don't go cheap, you need quality training. Bartolini do a reasonable job at a very good price, which is increasing every 2-3 year thanks to simple rules of the market. Plenty of students and 80% of my course mates got jobs in Ryanair, CityJet, Adria, Loganair and one became an instructor.

[JakubEGSC]

Hi BananJoe,

thanks for joining in to the topic.

That's great new from what you are saying.

SmartAviation seem to have similar fleet they are not much cheaper, as their price doesn't include landing fees, or exam fees. So if you add all this up you would be very close.

I may start new thread on the forum trying to find SmartAv graduates to get first hand info.

All very useful fro you guys - thanks for feedback.

[JakubEGSC]

Hi all,

Someone recommended AirAlliance in Germany, attached are their current prices. Looks not bad and the fleet you train on is quite impressive.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/774x1096/airall_7c2fbad13d7c0994081609e9055da0b02ac34557.jpg

[FougaMagister]

Bartolini and Smart Aviation have fairly similar offers. However, when training for CPL/ME-IR, there is added value in operating from a controlled airport. At the moment, both Lodz and Poznan-Lawica are controlled, but Lodz may be "downgraded" to AFIS in the short term as a cost-saving exercise due to the low level of commercial traffic (IFR procedures would still be there). There is no such project at Poznan - which incidentally also has APP.

Cheers :cool:

P.S: don't ask me how I know; I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... ;)

[Banana Joe]

Hi BananJoe,

thanks for joining in to the topic.

That's great new from what you are saying.

SmartAviation seem to have similar fleet they are not much cheaper, as their price doesn't include landing fees, or exam fees. So if you add all this up you would be very close.

I may start new thread on the forum trying to find SmartAv graduates to get first hand info.

All very useful fro you guys - thanks for feedback.

You also need to consider Smart Aviation have to take theirairplanes to Bartolini Air, as the latter are the only Tecnam service center in Poland.

And landing fees during your training are included in the price at Bartolini.

[HowardJR]

64K EUR? You get the same training for 49K EUR in Maribor, Slovenia... it's international airport and it's just next to Graz, Austria...

[Banana Joe]

You might also want to consider F-Air in Czech Republic. They are very good.

[Banana Joe]

I have not gone to F-Air but know people who have. Long story short, they are on par with Bartolini Air and the fleet is the same. Bartolini Air are also switching to the P2008.

[maximus610]

I did once the MEP/IR revalidation with them.

Very profesional outfit. A/C's well maintained. Knowledgeable instructors. Airspace is quite busy (flown from EDFE), hence excelent training environment.

From my experience, cheaper price doesn't mean always good training and high standards.

[SeGMaN]

any update, any more suggestions?

[Banana Joe]

I heard good things about Royal Star Aero in Mielec, near Rzeszow.

[flapsupboy]

Just visited Bartolini today and the next available slot for CPL is on 2020 Jul.The day before I visited PZL in Mielec near Royal Star aero and was impressed.They have a small fleet and don't offer theoretical training but they seem okay with maintaince and rates are also reasonable.

[Banana Joe]

Just visited Bartolini today and the next available slot for CPL is on 2020 Jul.The day before I visited PZL in Mielec near Royal Star aero and was impressed.They have a small fleet and don't offer theoretical training but they seem okay with maintaince and rates are also reasonable.
When I graduated the waiting list was around one year!:eek:

[RedDragonFlyer]

Wow! 20 months is an incredible amount of time to wait.

The school has obviously made a name for itself.

Though it's pretty unrealistic for someone finishing their ATPLs now to wait that long.

[NorthernCounties]

Just visited Bartolini today and the next available slot for CPL is on 2020 Jul.The day before I visited PZL in Mielec near Royal Star aero and was impressed.They have a small fleet and don't offer theoretical training but they seem okay with maintaince and rates are also reasonable.

I´m not surprised. If you Google ´´Ryanair First Officer Bartolini Linkedin``, you get ten´s of results of FO now working with Ryanair, which is not the case for other schools. I have seen some mention Global Aviation in Greece, at present they are 1k more expensive but that is going to change imminently I am sure, and I guess you don´t have to wait 20 months!

[RedDragonFlyer]

Thakara737 - What were your thoughts on your Bartolini visit?

Bartolini are, of course, a modular school. Many people, myself included, worry that despite great investment they'll struggle to get a job with this path. The reasons for and validity of this have been covered ad nauseam on this site- but it is a real worry.

What sets Bartolini apart (and why they are so popular) is definitely their employment record. Looking at their Facebook page, they must have had more than twenty students go to Ryanair in 2018 alone. They've also had students go to Jet2, flybe, Air Malta, Adria (quite a few to there actually), Stobart Air, Air Moldova, TUI Belgium, Cityjet, a few private jet operators and more.


I had a look at Global. The real worry with them is that they have very few reviews online. Also, the CPL/IR/MEP is over 2k more.

[flapsupboy]

Thakara737 - What were your thoughts on your Bartolini visit?

Bartolini are, of course, a modular school. Many people, myself included, worry that despite great investment they'll struggle to get a job with this path. The reasons for and validity of this have been covered ad nauseam on this site- but it is a real worry.

What sets Bartolini apart (and why they are so popular) is definitely their employment record. Looking at their Facebook page, they must have had more than twenty students go to Ryanair in 2018 alone. They've also had students go to Jet2, flybe, Air Malta, Adria (quite a few to there actually), Stobart Air, Air Moldova, TUI Belgium, Cityjet, a few private jet operators and more.


I had a look at Global. The real worry with them is that they have very few reviews online. Also, the CPL/IR/MEP is over 2k more.

Bartolini is a well known school all over Europe and all over this forum.The guy who showed the school around told they have a policy where an aircraft reaches 3000hrs or 3 years,whichever first they sell the aircraft.When I was there already a twin and a 2002 was already sold and waiting for their new owner to pick them up.So no worries about the aircraft conditions.
They also will be starting MCC/JOC next year.He told me they have 4 sims. 1 A320 style one.1 B737.2 FNTPs for IR,one full motion.
The really annoying thing is the waiting list.Still the school has made a great name to have such a long waiting list.
Many former students have found out jobs in many airlines.I don't think this is due to the schools name or their connections with airlines.I think the school makes good pilots.Finding a job is up to us.The school might/might not have connections with airlines.Still we have to have the proper aptitude and attitude right?You won't end up in an airline just because you went to this school.
But I think having Bartolini Air as your CPL school on your CV might give you a pointer or two in an interview.

What are your thoughts?:O

[RedDragonFlyer]

Many former students have found out jobs in many airlines.I don't think this is due to the schools name or their connections with airlines.I think the school makes good pilots.Finding a job is up to us.The school might/might not have connections with airlines.Still we have to have the proper aptitude and attitude right?You won't end up in an airline just because you went to this school.
But I think having Bartolini Air as your CPL school on your CV might give you a pointer or two in an interview.

What are your thoughts?:O

What you're saying is correct. It is, of course, up to each individual to actually get a job. But, based on their previous students' employment results, they are obviously doing something right preparing them for jobs.