Clarification about 'Line up and wait'

[Airmann]

After recieving a line and wait behind clearance and after the stop bar lights have been switched off can one advance past the hold short line before the preceding traffic has started their take off roll?

[fpuentegomez]

what's the rush? wait for the preceding traffic to be gone (started t/o roll) to line up

[172_driver]

Yes you can.

[Check Airman]

You can. From the FAA Pilot/Controller Glossary:
LINE UP AND WAIT (LUAW)
Used by ATC to inform a pilot to taxi onto the departure runway to line up and wait. It is not authorization for takeoff. It is used when takeoff clearance cannot immediately be issued because of traffic or other reasons.

[the_stranger]

what's the rush? wait for the preceding traffic to be gone (started t/o roll) to line up
Ever been to Heathrow, for instance? They really appreciate everything you can do to minimode the time on the runway.

I agree there are limits and you are the one to decide, but at busy airports with long entries unto the runway, this question seems rather valid.

[wiggy]

Since LHR has been mentioned and for the benefit of the OP, this from mLido LHR procedures:


Minimum Runway Occupancy Time (MROT)
Ensure standard MROT procedures and in addition:
When receiving a conditional line-up CLR on a preceding DEP ACFT, remain behind the subject ACFT but
may cross RWY HLDG point (subject to there being no illuminated red stop bar) and enter RWY upon
receipt CLR. There is no requirement for the subject ACFT to have commenced its TKOF roll before
entering RWY. Be aware of the blast hazard.


(apologies for the formatting).

[Airmann]

Wiggy, thanks

But is this only applicable to LHR. Or are they just highlighting something that is standard procedure throughout the world in order to ensure pilots expedite.

[scifi]

If there are no other aircraft in front of you, then you enter the runway and Line Up, and Wait. The Wait is for any other traffic to get clear your intended flight path.

If there is an aircraft in front of you, it is advisable not to position your light Cessna aircraft anywhere near the tail of a Commercial Airliner, as the Jet Blast will flip you over even from 200 yards behind.... It is most likely that ATC would never request you to do that.
.

[172_driver]

Again why the rush even if it is legal? You won't get issued a take off clearance

It helps making a smooth taxi into position without the need to stop. Especially with long entries you can avoid the stop and need for significant brake away thrust. I guess it's like trying to achieve a idle thrust CDA, a pilot compulsive disorder ;)
​

[Airmann]

Again why the rush even if it is legal? You won't get issued a take off clearance within seconds of the other guy going wheels up

At some airports you will.

[wiggy]

You won't get issued a take off clearance within seconds of the other guy going wheels up

At the likes of LHR and I’m sure a few other places you most most certainly will, wake vortex and/or route separation allowing... all down to minimum runway occupancy/maximum runway utilisation.

[RAT 5]

At STN & LGW it is not uncommon to receive an ATC, "expect late landing clearance, one to depart." If you are not lined up and ready to go as soon as the first landing has his tail bone over the vacated line ATC will not be best pleased; even more the one on short finals who has to GA. There is a huge difference at semi-quiet airfields where you can gently roll onto the strip for a smooth no rush rolling take off; and the maximising pushing tin during rush hour at others. ATC and the plots have to be sharp, listen out & think ahead, and be ready for anything at anytime.
Years ago, when I was at LHR for a short while, they seemed to have a smart sequence of SID's where the 1st went left, then next right etc. This gave adequate, but short enough spacing on the SID's.

[FlightDetent]

Airmann: There was an Eurocontro Airport Capactiy Enhacement CD handed out to all pilots back home - about 12 years ago. With a nice video-clip for flight crew education that specifically said please DO cross the holding point without waiting (in your scenario).

Tried searching the internet for it now, but to no avail.

my 2c.

[AmarokGTI]

Got a memo from Airservices Australia (I presume it’s publicly available, I just happened to get it from a company memo) that Conditional Clearances will not be issued when stop bars are in use.

[Check Airman]

Again why the rush even if it is legal? You won't get issued a take off clearance within seconds of the other guy going wheels up ave even if you did that still gives you ample time to gently roll into position and go.

In ATL and ORD, you certainly will. During the busy periods, I've seen ATC issue takeoff clearance before the mains have broken ground.

On a tangent, LGA used to say "LUAW, spool 'em up" or "LUAW, be ready to go". I haven't heard them say that in some time, but it's not uncommon to be in position with the engines spooled up before the clearance is issued so that the brakes can be released ASAP.

[FlightDetent]

Who said hoarding was a waste of time? :O


http://postimg.cz/images/2018/05/15/WV8Cr.jpg


http://postimg.cz/images/2018/05/15/WVzIN.jpg

Haha but no CD inside. The clever people of yesteryears thought such thing was entirely possible (pilots to pilots), and got ready: printing the essentials inside the cover.
Have a look. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JZP_c1ebZXypZlaj-fANkm-M4lgAB5bbRySGzR1HIYMIM4s0tDXtKV9osFTM-6nQFPOQuaRdDVgE7QLcPMSiCwktzBGJ5nU6xybMWxwHjl89FdudypVaaSZqW r2qtV2jbDkq4wzbzA=w1279-h1278-no)

@TangoAlpha: agreed, never found a practical use of the technique in LGW. But think of CDG 27L via Q14.

[poldek77]

I have visited few airports where a holding point is located quite remotely - on the parallel taxiway, abeam of a glide slope transmitter (to avoid possible signal interference). Such a conditional clearance can save you a minute.

[parabellum]

Such a conditional clearance can save you a minute.

and if three aircraft do it then it allows an additional landing or TO.

[Capn Bloggs]

ATC and the plots have to be sharp, listen out & think ahead, and be ready for anything at anytime.
Surely you can't be serious??

[Capn Bloggs]

I am serious, and don't call me Shurely! :ok:

[Basil]

Just had a scull around and see that "Position and hold." is now passé in the USA.