Aerobatic rating

[PelicanSquawk]

Hi All,

I have recently completed my PPL and I wish to continue some kind of tuition and learning, alongside my hours building prior to CPL. I am interested in doing an aerobatic rating... for a couple of reasons which may or may not be justified:

1. I like the idea of learning just focusing on the flying, without the noise of navigation, etc. Am I right in thinking a course like this would give me transferable experience to non aerobatic aircraft, and make me a better pilot?

2. I have found that tuition during my PPL is very much focused on airmanship and safety (rightfully so), and not so much making the aircraft do exactly what you want it to (not to the same standard) and also not exploring some of its limitations. Would the course give me more confidence in handling of a non aerobatic aircraft, and make me more aware of its limitations? For example I did some practise spins with my instructor in a C172, I asked specifically to do this (its not on the syllabus), because I wanted to have the confidence that I could deal with them if they happened, and so I knew it wouldn't be a big panic and the wings ripping off. Or would it make more sense to do a UPRT course, as I'll need this any way for my ATPL, but was planning on saving it for after my CPL, so that it is relevant to jets etc.... I could be wrong about this?

I guess what I am saying is, will the course improve my flying, and give me a transferable confidence (not over confidence) to handle other non aerobatic aircraft? I would be looking to do it in an extra or something.

On an aside, I know people will recommend I do an IMC rating, but my problem with this is that I plan on doing a full IR rating for my ATPL, and can't afford to do the IMC first and then repeat a lot of it on the IR, because the IR will most likely be part of a package deal. Interested to hear peoples thoughts on this... and if any one can recommend a good school in North London, or potentially Cambridge.

Any advice appreciated.

PS

[Genghis the Engineer]

Yes and yes. Try West London Aero Club at White Waltham.

An IMC rating can be built upon to get a CB IR, which is still an IR.

G

[PelicanSquawk]

Yes and yes. Try West London Aero Club at White Waltham.

An IMC rating can be built upon to get a CB IR, which is still an IR.

G

Thanks Genghis! I will look into the aerobatics course then.

[rusty sparrow]

I also recommend Adrian Willis at Aerobatic flying training British Aerobatic Academy (http://www.britishaerobaticacademy.com/aerobatic-training) I had my 'hour with an instructor' doing aerobatics with him in an Extra 200 last year and had a lot of fun feeling how the aircraft behaved. Like all the best instructors he's very relaxed and friendly

I plan to do the EASA Aerobatic Rating Course next year as work allows

[PelicanSquawk]

So I've read that I'll need 40 hours of flight time after being issued my PPL, which I don't have yet... so I'll have to do some other flying first before I can do this. But otherwise I think I definitely will.

I also recommend Adrian Willis at Aerobatic flying training British Aerobatic Academy (http://www.britishaerobaticacademy.com/aerobatic-training) I had my 'hour with an instructor' doing aerobatics with him in an Extra 200 last year and had a lot of fun feeling how the aircraft behaved. Like all the best instructors he's very relaxed and friendly

I plan to do the EASA Aerobatic Rating Course next year as work allows

Thanks you. I'll check him out!

[alex90]

So I've read that I'll need 40 hours of flight time after being issued my PPL, which I don't have yet... so I'll have to do some other flying first before I can do this. But otherwise I think I definitely will.

The 40 hours is for aerobatic rating issue, not for the training itself. If your aim is to get a little experience now, before doing a load of cross country just to bump up your confidence then the hours doesn't matter. If your aim is "to get a rating" then that's not going to work. All hours do count however, so if you did a little training now to bump up confidence, and then finished it off several months later, although you might need to review what you had previously done, there is nothing stopping these hours counting.

I think I would do a little "straight and level" navigation after the PPL, go to a few places, maybe even France for lunch, get a little experience under your belt and hone those skills you acquired during your PPL. Flying is all about building on previous experience, and ensuring that your skills are regularly kept up to date. Regular stalls, PFLs, steep turns (yes, max rate, not medium turns), spiral dive recoveries, turn reversals, EFATOs, circuits, cross wind landings etc... If all those are fully up to scratch, your learning aerobatics will be so much easier, especially if you're flying a tailwheel aeroplane for your aerobatics!

I don't think there is "bad" training straight after your PPL. All training is good (providing the instructor is any good of course!). Just take your time, don't rush it, enjoy the flying - if you're going the ATPL and airline route, remember that this is the last time you'll be able to make your own decisions of destinations/time/aims, before you become a flying bus driver. So make the most of it.

I'd recommend tailwheel conversion, as I think this is what single handedly made my flying so much better.

White Waltham (WLAC) is a fantastic airfield, but if you're on the other side of London, The Tiger Club at Damyns Hall are also fantastic - they also don't charge for tuition which is a major bonus!

Good luck with your training and let us know how you get on!!

[PelicanSquawk]

The 40 hours is for aerobatic rating issue, not for the training itself. If your aim is to get a little experience now, before doing a load of cross country just to bump up your confidence then the hours doesn't matter. If your aim is "to get a rating" then that's not going to work. All hours do count however, so if you did a little training now to bump up confidence, and then finished it off several months later, although you might need to review what you had previously done, there is nothing stopping these hours counting.

I think I would do a little "straight and level" navigation after the PPL, go to a few places, maybe even France for lunch, get a little experience under your belt and hone those skills you acquired during your PPL. Flying is all about building on previous experience, and ensuring that your skills are regularly kept up to date. Regular stalls, PFLs, steep turns (yes, max rate, not medium turns), spiral dive recoveries, turn reversals, EFATOs, circuits, cross wind landings etc... If all those are fully up to scratch, your learning aerobatics will be so much easier, especially if you're flying a tailwheel aeroplane for your aerobatics!

I don't think there is "bad" training straight after your PPL. All training is good (providing the instructor is any good of course!). Just take your time, don't rush it, enjoy the flying - if you're going the ATPL and airline route, remember that this is the last time you'll be able to make your own decisions of destinations/time/aims, before you become a flying bus driver. So make the most of it.

I'd recommend tailwheel conversion, as I think this is what single handedly made my flying so much better.

White Waltham (WLAC) is a fantastic airfield, but if you're on the other side of London, The Tiger Club at Damyns Hall are also fantastic - they also don't charge for tuition which is a major bonus!

Good luck with your training and let us know how you get on!!


Thank you for taking the time to write all of that, very helpful and useful. And I think you're right in what you say about all the practise... I'm looking forward to my 100 hours, and planning to make them count...Just looking for a share in a plane at the moment.

[Dan Winterland]

Am I right in thinking a course like this would give me transferable experience to non aerobatic aircraft, and make me a better pilot?

Yes. The techniques learned flying an aircraft close to it's limit will benefit you in many ways. Your confidence will increase and it will arm you with skills which may be useful later in an airline career. Much training resource is being concentrated on Upset Recovery Procedures Training at the moment after a couple of high profile incidents where it was clear the pilots were not equipped with the skills to deal with the situation they found themselves in. I believe this sort of flying will improve your skill, and it is shared by EASA who are looking how to include practical UPRT in the flying syllabus. My airline put cadets through a 5 hour UPRT course on an aerobatic aircraft during their training.

And I still fly aerobatics when I can. Flying a modern 'fly by wire' airliner at work degrades my flying skills; I like to maintain them by turning upside down regularly. And if you're going to hour build for a professional licence, you may as well have fun doing it. I recommend a tail-dragger as well to maximise the fun.

[PelicanSquawk]

Thanks all for the replies... I think I'm sold on the idea now. I'm just going to do some more hours before I commit to a course.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just a passing further thought.

Learning to a high standard *early* in your flying career, whether that's the basic PPL, instrument flying, aerobatics - whatever, will tend to create patterns of behaviour that stay with you throughout your life as a pilot. So any of the above, done deliberately to a high standard, will do you many favours.

G