UK plan to launch rival to EU sat-nav system.

[Sallyann1234]

It was never intended to replace a standard GPS system, and the value in the system wasn’t the current satellites, but as stated the orbits, frequencies, licences and ground network. The issue with Galileo was in the intention of the EU to withhold access to the precision location mode and the associated encryption.

Is what you have said there, the same argument that Cummings used to convince Boris to buy at this boot sale? Because if so, you're both wrong.

Orbits - there are no orbital slots for LEO satellites. It's currently a free for all, sothething that will become a problem before long. Nothing to buy there.

Frequencies - there was nothing to stop us registering the same frequency assignments, once the system had closed due to bankruptcy We did not need to buy the system to get them. And in any case there are still frequencoes available for our own system if we needed them.

Licensing - Once the frequencies are registered internationally, the only licences needed would be domestic ones. Just paperwork.

Ground stations - That's a different issue. If this is for a UK defence system we'd have to be a lot more careful about the location and control of the ground stations.

And I ask again - who is going to use a system that needs special-purpose ground equipment? Have the military or emergency services asked for it? They are all going over to COTS to save money.

And we don't even know exactly what this system, when completed, might do. At the moment it's all "might do", "could do", "would be nice to do".

It will come to nothing, just a waste of money.

Edit: This may be of interest regarding LEO orbits: https://aerospace.org/sites/default/files/2018-05/OrbitalSlots_0.pdf

[ORAC]

Frequencies - there was nothing to stop us registering the same frequency assignments, once the system had closed due to bankruptcy We did not need to buy the system to get them. And in any case there are still frequencoes available for our own system if we needed them.
Currently handled by the FCC in the USA, but the ultimate controller is the ITU. Orbits means frequencies - no allocation then your satellite can’t communicate with anyone. (Which is why there is such an interest in laser comms between constellation elements*).

https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/Pages/2019-PR23.aspx

https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/Non-geostationary-satellite-systems.aspx

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/05/spacex-and-oneweb-seek-licenses-to-launch-78000-broadband-satellites/

http://satellitemarkets.com/news-analysis/next-wave-low-earth-orbit-constellations

* https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/small_spacecraft/cubesat_laser_infrared_crosslink

[Sallyann1234]

"Orbits mean frequencies" :)

The procedure for registering satellite frequencies is well established, and quite rightly if you don't use them you lose them. Of course. Nothing you have posted there changes what I said above.

These are not the only satellites and not the only frequencies. They are not the only game in town. There is no closing date for applications.

We have no idea at the moment whether we need satellites, and if so whether these frequencies or these orbits are suitable for what we might need.
First we need a user requirement, not some political adviser's daydream. If we actually do need satellites, we can build our own in the UK to do what we actually need, and get suitable frequency assignments for that purpose, which may very well be different from those OneWeb have obtained. As you have correctly said above, launches are easily sorted so we can get satellites launched to secure that spectrum.

I ask yet again - where is the user requirement?

[ORAC]

https://www.adsadvance.co.uk/hughes-to-join-uk-government-and-bharti-in-oneweb-consortium.html

Hughes to join UK Government and Bharti in OneWeb consortium

[WB627]

Someone was ahead of their time.....

Rockets Galore 1957 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockets_Galore! and recently shown on Talking Pictures

Didn't end well for the MOD :E so perhaps they should watch the film, then look somewhere else :}

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cummings-flaunts-historic-defence-innovation-letter-5zpxq83w2

......Last year Britain became the first formal partner in the US-led Operation Olympic Defender, a multinational military coalition formed to deter hostile actors against causing trouble in space.

The Ministry of Defence is pursuing its ambition to send into low Earth orbit a constellation of responsive small satellites, which are cheaper than previous generation satellites and easier to launch.

Codenamed Artemis, the programme aims eventually to beam live, high-resolution video imagery directly into the cockpits of the RAF’s fighter jet fleet........

[VP959]

Codenamed Artemis, the programme aims eventually to beam live, high-resolution video imagery directly into the cockpits of the RAF’s fighter jet fleet........

I predict that by the time it is capable of doing that we won't have any piloted fighters left, we'll be using UAVs . . .

[rogerg]

I predict that they will still need to get the nav information from somewhere.

[ORAC]

Curiouser and curiouser.

Just as the UK announces it is pulling funds for UK companies to work on a LEO GPS design - the US announces it has started one. I wonder what is going on in the background.......

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/09/28/1008972/us-army-spacex-musk-starlink-satellites-gps-unjammable-navigation/


SpaceX has already launched more than 700 Starlink satellites, with thousands more due (https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/10/15/102541/spacex-just-filed-a-request-to-run-30-000-more-starlink-satellites-in-orbit/) to come online in the years ahead. Their prime mission is to provide high-speed internet virtually worldwide, extending it to many remote locations that have lacked reliable service to date.

Now, research funded by the US Army has concluded that the growing mega-constellation (https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/09/24/102603/do-satellite-mega-constellations-really-have-to-be-so-big/) could have a secondary purpose: doubling as a low-cost, highly accurate, and almost unjammable alternative to GPS. The new method would use existing Starlink satellites in low Earth orbit (LEO) to provide near-global navigation services.

In a non-peer-reviewed paper (http://arxiv.org/abs/2009.12334), Todd Humphreys and Peter Iannucci of the Radionavigation Laboratory (https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/) at the University of Texas at Austin claim to have devised a system that uses the same satellites, piggybacking on traditional GPS signals, to deliver location precision up to 10 times as good as GPS, in a system much less prone to interference.......

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-scraps-plan-to-build-global-satellite-navigation-system-to-replace-galileo/

UK scraps Brexit alternative to EU’s Galileo satellite system


LONDON — The U.K. is set to scrap former Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to replace access to the EU’s satellite navigation system Galileo after Brexit with a home-grown equivalent.

The UK Space Agency is expected to announce that contracts awarded to U.K. space companies to build the British Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) will not be extended beyond their expiration date at the end of this month........

The government will instead ask companies to put forward “innovative” solutions that give the U.K. additional resilience to that of Galileo and GPS, the U.S. satellite navigation system.

“The general principle is looking at alternative ways of providing resilient position, navigation and timing systems in a way that is different to GPS and Galileo. Because if GPS and Galileo fail, it may well be for the same reason, the same disruption. The idea is to come up with something different and by doing that you’ve got more chance of having one system up and running when perhaps one of the others has failed,” the executive said.......

[Big_D]

Sad end of the story.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/ministers-post-brexit-british-gps-scheme-explained-abandoned-714960

[Sallyann1234]

Inevitable. Just another bucket of cash chucked down the Boris/Cummings gutter

As I said two years ago

The whole idea of a new UK GNSS is preposterous.

It's yet another example of politicians dreaming something up without consulting anyone who actually understands the reality.

[ORAC]

POLITICO Europe: EUROPE’S NEXT BIG SPACE ENDEAVOUR

2021 is the year Europe needs to show it’s serious about building — and defending — its position behind the U.S. as the world’s second space power, the CEO of ArianeGroup, André-Hubert Roussel, told Playbook in an interview.

His company runs the development of the Ariane series of rockets, up there with TGV trains as a prized French engineering success.

He says priority No. 1 for the European Commission on space should be kicking on with developing a secure satellite communications network that will offer Europe a reliable network for digital services.

Such a program — which already has the backing of Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton and a €7 million study (https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2020/12/european-space-and-digital-players-to-study-build-of-eus-satellitebased-connectivity-system.html) ongoing into how to make it work — would be Europe’s third big space services initiative after Copernicus, an Earth monitoring satellite system, and Galileo, a nascent GPS alternative.....

Next week, ministers, commissioners and industry folk will convene for the European Space Conference (https://www.spaceconference.eu/), the bloc’s annual talking shop for all things orbital, to discuss the plan.

“We need an ambition in Europe to have more programs and projects to launch,” Roussel said. Getting straight onto a communications network program would mean a steady stream of new launches......

[ThomaJo]

Now it seems any country wants to be part of the space community. On the previous page, I saw doubts about whether we need satellites or not. At a time when countries are increasingly restricting travel, as well as cooperation on various programs. I think we still need our own satellites, rockets, etc. The thread began with how Britain could replace certain programs. It is now pretty clear that the government is backing the British space business. There are quite a few agreements with ESA on satellite launches. Of course, these programs are not very large-scale yet. But there is a plan for what to do.

[radeng]

How many geo-stationary orbital slots are left unoccupied that could allow pan European coverage?

[Blacksheep]

...the aim is replace/supplement existing GPS, where the existing satellites and signal are increasingly vulnerable to jamming... As is apparent in the Eastern Mediterranean at the moment with GPS jamming disabling the ADS-B system. A certain State actor preventing its use for targeting.

[ORAC]

How many geo-stationary orbital slots are left unoccupied that could allow pan European coverage?
All current satellite communication systems are based and planned on LEO/MEO constellations to maximise coverage above 60 degrees N/S, increase bandwidth, allow NRT data and voice transmission and also provide redundancy. Spacex, for example, has submitted requests for constellations adding up to around 40,000 satellites in total - and they are one of several such companies.

[ThomaJo]

Already 57,000 applications for launch until 2029 have been confirmed. Now work has begun on the creation of 6g networks. These networks also require their satellites. Therefore, there will be a need for additional launches starting from 2029-2030. That is, there will be more and more new companies that specialize only in this. We gradually come to something like the Dyson sphere. The truth it would be much less effective.