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Airbubba
3rd May 2018, 15:38
As the lawsuit says, the Captain's 'grossly abusive actions epitomize the purpose and necessity of the #MeToo movement'.

Flight attendant sues SkyWest Airlines over alleged drugging, rape by captain during layoverOriginally published April 26, 2018 at 6:00 am Updated April 27, 2018 at 10:00 amBy Lewis Kamb (https://www.seattletimes.com/author/lewis-kamb/) Seattle Times staff reporter
They had hung out a few times before, just as friends — a captain and a flight attendant, sharing camaraderie and a love of hockey.

But now, Mary E. Morgan wants nothing to do with the senior pilot — not after that hazy night in late November 2016, when Morgan claims he drugged and raped her during a layover in Edmonton, Alberta, before a return flight to Seattle.Months after reporting the alleged sexual assault to Canadian police — and to her longtime employer, SkyWest Airlines — Morgan said she’s tired of living and working in fear.
The man she says assaulted her, Capt. Robert L. Rowe, continues to fly for the airline, she says. And Morgan contends her employer has done nothing to protect her from crossing his path again: Both employees for SkyWest remain “domiciled,” or based out of Sea-Tac International Airport, she says.“I’m exhausted, I’m scared, I want to keep my job — I love my job,” said Morgan, 39, who has worked for SkyWest for 14 years, most recently commuting from her home in Victoria, British Columbia. “But this shouldn’t happen. I shouldn’t have to be terrified to go to work.”https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/flight-attendant-sues-skywest-airlines-over-alleged-drugging-rape-by-captain-during-layover/

And, as with the previous suit, the action is filed by Lincoln C. Beauregard, Esq. and his colleagues.

The new lawsuit is posted here:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4447060-Morgan-Lawsuit-SkyWest.html

Ascend Charlie
4th May 2018, 07:10
Where can you buy "date rape" drugs??? Aren't they restricted? If so, how can somebody holding an aircrew medical still be fit to fly if prescribed to have such drugs?

A Squared
4th May 2018, 10:05
Where can you buy "date rape" drugs??? Aren't they restricted? If so, how can somebody holding an aircrew medical still be fit to fly if prescribed to have such drugs?

Are you serious?????? You haven't ever heard that people sell drugs illegally? Both illegal drugs and prescription pharmaceuticals obtained outside legal channels? Have you been living under a rock?

parabellum
5th May 2018, 04:01
Where can you buy "date rape" drugs??? Aren't they restricted? If so, how can somebody holding an aircrew medical still be fit to fly if prescribed to have such drugs?
An often prescribed sleeping tablet, won't name it here, is the most common 'date rape' drug. Pilots, especially long haul pilots, can lose their circadian rhythm and sleep becomes a very hit and miss affair, (even fifteen years after retiring!). The various aviation regulating authorities have their own rules and restrictions on just which sleeping pills working crew can take, usually something low dose that is out of the system quite quickly and probably not including the drug I am aware of, in well publicised court cases, as having been used for date rape. If a pilot is prescribed a sleeping tablet it remains his/her responsibility to report for work in a drug free state.

cactusbusdrvr
5th May 2018, 04:47
No idea to the merits of this accusation. The timing, however, is a little suspect, almost two years later.

Washington State has a state law that makes employers liable in a case such as this where someone in a supervisory position has assaulted someone under their direct control. Since corporations have deep pockets that’s where the lawyers flock.

Deltasierra010
5th May 2018, 06:29
Reading through the lawsuit, Item 12 neglects to detail when she reported the incident to her senior flight attendant and police, same day? or a year later?. If it was same day any police authority would have interviewed the pilot and if her condition was as stated in Item 10 that pilot would be in serious trouble, guilty or not.

if reported much later her story could be entirely invention, the effects of these drugs has been widely reported online and although they will be available legally and illegally there does not appear to be any evidence whatsoever. So does every captain have to be escorted by a chaperone to avoid claims.

Bksmithca
5th May 2018, 15:29
Airline captains live in 5-star hotels, not under rocks, and generally don't frequent places where the undesirables sell illegal drugs. They are nice people and don't do this sort of thing.

And anyway, "she was asking for it".

Ascend Charlie
Not sure where you live but in Canada we have had Police officers arrested for selling drugs to other Police officers so what makes airline captains living in a 5 star hotel so Godly???

And as for your comment that she was asking for it Really go crawl Back under what ever rock you crawled out from. That like saying the pedestrian deserved to be run over because he was on a sidewalk.

underfire
5th May 2018, 15:37
Airline captains live in 5-star hotels, not under rocks, and generally don't frequent places where the undesirables sell illegal drugs. They are nice people and don't do this sort of thing.

And anyway, "she was asking for it".

You are kidding arent you?

tdracer
5th May 2018, 19:15
Reading through the lawsuit, Item 12 neglects to detail when she reported the incident to her senior flight attendant and police, same day? or a year later?

According to a report I heard on the local radio, she claims she initially reported it within 24 hours - after that it got more vague but supposedly she was told it was being looked in to.

costalpilot
5th May 2018, 21:50
According to a report I heard on the local radio, she claims she initially reported it within 24 hours - after that it got more vague but supposedly she was told it was being looked in to.

well she has the go to attorney advising her now, and if she is in fact saying that she reported it back then, I'd say its a pretty good bet she did, for obvious reasons, as in there would be a record.

Assuming that, the question really is, what did the company do?

For sure, "looking into" ain't gonnna get it.

Airbubba
5th May 2018, 22:17
The new 'improved' PPRuNe interface makes posting a link or an excerpt pretty challenging but from the Seattle Times article referenced above this timeline of the reporting of the alleged rape is offered:

After that, Morgan says her memory gets fuzzy. She can recall only “snippets” of events before she remembers “waking up naked in (Rowe’s) bed.”

“He was lying next to me, and I was so confused,” she said. “I just felt dull, just kind of foggy and hazy.” Morgan said she quietly dressed and returned to her own room and took a shower, finding bruises on her breasts and thighs and blood in her genitals. “I knew I had been assaulted,” she said. “But at that moment, I was so confused and in shock.” Morgan said she texted Rowe, asking him to explain how she ended up in his bed.“Put two and two together,” she said he texted back. Once at the airport, Morgan said she tried to avoid Rowe during the return flight to Seattle.

A few days later, Morgan said she told her parents “everything that had happened,” and later called a friend — SkyWest’s chief flight attendant.“I told him what had happened, and he said, ‘Well, I’ve never heard anyone say anything like that about Bob,’ ” Morgan said.

The chief attendant took no further action, she added.Over the next few days, Morgan went to a doctor to be checked for sexually transmitted diseases, then reported the alleged rape to police. An officer in Sidney, British Columbia, forwarded her statement to an Edmonton police detective, who obtained additional evidence, including statements from SkyWest and a hotel clerk, Morgan said.

In an email Thursday, an Edmonton Police Services spokesman confirmed a case was forwarded to prosecutors, but “the Crown did not proceed with charges as a result of insufficient evidence.”

In December 2016, shortly after Morgan reported her allegations to police, she said she also informed SkyWest’s employee-relations office. The airline placed her on paid leave, she said, but conducted only a cursory review before summoning her back to work.

When Morgan told her employer she wasn’t ready to return, she said the airline gave her three options: take unpaid leave, transfer to a different airport or self-schedule flights to avoid Rowe.“Which isn’t the appropriate response, obviously,” said Julie Kays, Morgan’s Seattle attorney. “We see this a lot in these types of cases, where suddenly it all falls on the victim to upend her life. Well, what’s happening to this guy who assaulted her?”


Some aspects of the narrative are strikingly similar to the earlier Alaska Air case litigated by some of the same attorneys.

Blind Squirrel
7th May 2018, 03:14
In fairness to Ascend Charlie, I believe his comment was intended to be set in ironic type, and read as such.

However, I'm not sure that any such excuse can be found for DS010. Contrary to his curious notion, commercial pilots are not in the habit of "inventing" stories about sexual violence at the hands of senior colleagues they barely know. Hard though it may be for him to accept, they generally do not find sexual encounters that result in "bruises on their breasts and thighs" and "blood in their genitals" pleasurable. And if it takes them eighteen months after the incident to file a lawsuit, only after having exhausted all internal recourses (and having the management of their airline co-operate in their nefarious scheme by refusing to take action) they must be engaged in a very long con indeed.

The courts, no doubt, will sort it out. But when I was a lot younger, they taught me in school about a principle called Occam's Razor. Google, as always, will provide the details for the curious.

groundbum
7th May 2018, 09:11
from the news reports the Police did investigate contemporously, and the prosecutor did decide not to proceed. So I'm guessing it's on this basis, not-guilty, that the Airline proceeded, which is reasonable. Without a conviction, or an admission from the alleged assailant, the airline has to be guided by the legal system.

G

Cynical Sid
7th May 2018, 20:15
from the news reports the Police did investigate contemporously, and the prosecutor did decide not to proceed. So I'm guessing it's on this basis, not-guilty, that the Airline proceeded, which is reasonable. Without a conviction, or an admission from the alleged assailant, the airline has to be guided by the legal system.

G

And one would hope that the captain would have a very strong claim against them if they did anything else.

Herod
7th May 2018, 21:11
One has to ask: why did the prosecutor decide not to proceed?

Airbubba
7th May 2018, 21:16
One has to ask: why did the prosecutor decide not to proceed?

From the article above:

In an email Thursday, an Edmonton Police Services spokesman confirmed a case was forwarded to prosecutors, but “the Crown did not proceed with charges as a result of insufficient evidence.”

roybert
7th May 2018, 21:26
One has to ask: why did the prosecutor decide not to proceed?

Herod, In Canada our courts have become overworked due to understaffing so unless the case is a slam dunk it never makes it past the crown prosecutors. In this case they likely looked at it as a he said she said with little evidence as the young lady had already showered and washed away any DNA Evidence.

Airbubba
8th May 2018, 04:05
From PPRuNe's sister forum this crew bus rumor on the earlier rape claim at Alaska Airlines:

I just heard from a captain on the crew bus that he was fired for drinking against company policy, and she retained her job. This despite them BOTH drinking in the window.

Rape or no rape, they both drank against company policy. Why isn’t she being fired for her offense (especially due to her probationary status), just as he was/is?

If I were him, I’d sue AAG for sexism and equal opportunity practices.


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2588093-post124.html

cactusbusdrvr
8th May 2018, 04:25
From PPRuNe's sister forum this crew bus rumor on the earlier rape claim at Alaska Airlines:



https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2588093-post124.html

Yeah, because crew bus rumors are the gospel truth.

I would check that source.

parabellum
9th May 2018, 06:54
Possibly several valid reasons, possibly not, but why did the FA have the captains mobile number? Or is that standard practice now? I retired before mobile phones were 'the norm', we just kept a list of room numbers.

A Squared
9th May 2018, 07:05
Possibly several valid reasons, possibly not, but why did the FA have the captains mobile number? Or is that standard practice now? I retired before mobile phones were 'the norm', we just kept a list of room numbers.

Regardless of what one believes about what actually happened in regards to the alleged rape, it's apparently true that the captain and the flight attendant were friendly, attended a hockey game on this layover, and had socialized on previous layovers. It's completely unremarkable that 2 co-workers who were planning to get together for something like a hockey game on a layover would exchange mobile numbers. I don't think any inference either way can be drawn from this fact and I'd venture to say that there's no more significance to this than your list of room numbers from your days.

A Squared
9th May 2018, 07:24
Contrary to his curious notion, commercial pilots are not in the habit of "inventing" stories about sexual violence at the hands of senior colleagues they barely know. Hard though it may be for him to accept, they generally do not find sexual encounters that result in "bruises on their breasts and thighs" and "blood in their genitals" pleasurable.

You seem to have the two incidents confused, the incident Deltasierra10 is referring to involved a flight attendant, not a "commercial pilot" and the details you cite are also from the flight attendants alleged rape. Minor point, really. But your underlying fallacy is not a minor point. The idea that someone is inherently truthful because of their job. Consider this statement:

Commercial Pilots are not in the habit of drugging and raping their co-workers. Well, there you have it. The accused pilots in both the Alaska lawsuit and the more recent Sky West lawsuit must both be innocent because they are commercial pilots, right? Ridiculous, right? Beyond ridiculous, absurd even. Yes, of course it is absurd. It is *precisely* as absurd as the claim that someone would not lie about a rape because she is a commercial pilot ...or a flight attendant. Now, I am not claiming that the flight attendant's accusations are false. I haven't assumed her accusations are true, but have no reason to disbelieve her. The reality is people do really vile things. People, rape people, and people make fabricated accusations of rape. Both are evil, but there is nothing about being employed in aviation which proves one is inherently incapable of doing either.

A Squared
9th May 2018, 07:38
Yeah, because crew bus rumors are the gospel truth.

I would check that source.

For what it's worth, a news article I read recently reported that the Alaska captain is no longer employed by Alaska. No details were given, and I can't seem to find the article I read that in, I think it was actually in an article about the Sky West lawsuit. Granted, this in no way proves that the rumor is true, just that it seems to have at least a kernel of fact at it's basis.

Blind Squirrel
9th May 2018, 13:04
You seem to have the two incidents confused, the incident Deltasierra10 is referring to involved a flight attendant, not a "commercial pilot" and the details you cite are also from the flight attendants alleged rape.

Very true, ASquared, and I thank you for the correction. We are indeed speaking of a FA here. However, my point was not about the credibility of particular occupational categories -- I have no idea whether flight attendants are more or less believable than pilots, or dispatchers than ATCOs, or Web designers than deep-sea fishermen -- than about the balance of probabilities. We simply don't see a spate of devious, Machiavellian women (or men) in commercial aviation manufacturing rape claims out of whole cloth, for fun or profit, so as to ambush hapless captains. This, you will recall, was the nightmare scenario conjured up by DS010. On the other hand, we have seen an avalanche of cases in which powerful individuals in innumerable occupational categories exploit that power so as to victimise less powerful people sexually, and do so for years or decades with impunity. Yet when it comes to sexual offences, so many of us are swift to entertain the improbable scenario rather than the likely one.

Nobody is denying the defendant in this case his day in court, with all the protections that due process can provide. But when I read of a case like this, with two possible explanations, I know in which direction the odds are pointing.

oldchina
9th May 2018, 13:18
Nobody is denying the defendant in this case his day in court

In both cases the defendant is the airline

Deltasierra010
10th May 2018, 20:45
There are plenty of women who falsely claim some kind of improper conduct against a man, often a superior or a professional for a variety of reasons. This is exactly why a male doctor will have a chaperone present when he examines a female patient and exactly why I have a female assistant present when I have formal interviews with females, even one word allegedly used wrongly can cause problems, years ago I did have one that tried it on, in the current climate it would have been a problem.
So I don't buy the " I was too traumatized " reason for delaying reporting an attack and the sueing the airline for compensation confirms it, they are going for the cash and are being coached by the lawyers, nice work if you can get it.
I did wonder about the drinking before duty, they should both have been fired for that alone.
Do I trust women?, not one inch I have employed too many, men do it too especially if there is "discrimination potential".

Lonewolf_50
10th May 2018, 20:49
Was this lawsuit filed in Seattle in search of a #metoo compliant jury, or was the jurisdiction in re the home of the airline company the driving factor?

tdracer
10th May 2018, 22:13
SkyWest is not based in Seattle (Utah IIRC), but my understanding is the flight crew who was allegedly raped was based out of Seattle.

West Coast
10th May 2018, 23:15
SkyWest is not based in Seattle (Utah IIRC), but my understanding is the flight crew who was allegedly raped was based out of Seattle.


You recall correctly. SkyWest has been sued in many differing states when it was considered advantageous to the complainant.

A Squared
11th May 2018, 02:59
There are plenty of women who falsely claim some kind of improper conduct against a man, often a superior or a professional for a variety of reasons.


The US Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates the 8% of rape accusations are fraudulent. 8%. Let that sink in for a moment. Out of every 12 rape accusations, 1 of them is false. That's compared to the 2% fraudulent whcih the FBI estimates for other crimes.

Again, I am not claiming that I believe the Sky West FA's claim is made up; I have no basis for knowing. But anyone who is claiming that it must be true because rape claims are inherently true, or that women are inherently honest, or that some occupational field is filled only with honest people, has departed rationality and is simply voicing prejudice and bias.

Airbubba
11th May 2018, 03:26
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates the 8% of rape accusations are fraudulent.

Can you provide a cite for that statistic? Who made the estimate? Was it an official? Thanks.

The Reverend Al Sharpton made his name in New York three decades ago as a 'community activist' pushing phony rape allegations. Surprisingly, this infamous case is rarely mentioned in the #MeToo discussion.

A Squared
11th May 2018, 03:30
Can you provide a cite for that statistic? Who made the estimate? Was it an official? Thanks.

I saw it in some third party source while I was doing some reading recently. Let me see if I can come up with a more concrete reference for that.

A Squared
11th May 2018, 05:39
Can you provide a cite for that statistic? Who made the estimate? Was it an official? Thanks.

Here ya go:

From the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting 1995 "Crime in the United States" report (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1995/95sec2.pdf)




As for all other Crime Index offenses, complaints of
forcible rape made to law enforcement agencies are sometimes
found to be false or baseless. In such cases, law enforcement
agencies “unfound” the offenses and exclude them from crime
counts. The “unfounded” rate, or percentage of complaints
determined through investigation to be false, is higher for forcible
rape than for any other Index crime. In 1995, 8 percent of
forcible rape complaints were “unfounded,” while the average
for all Index crimes was 2 percent.

The 1996 and 1997 "Crime in the United States" reports contain substantially the same information.

A Squared
11th May 2018, 05:49
Yet when it comes to sexual offences, so many of us are swift to entertain the improbable scenario rather than the likely one.

8% is not "improbable". One out of every 12 is far too frequent to be dismissed as something that isn't worthy of consideration.

Airbanda
13th May 2018, 07:58
One has to ask: why did the prosecutor decide not to proceed?

Presumably lack of evidence required to convince a jury so they were sure that the statutory offence was made out. In UK we require a greater than 50% probability of conviction for prosecution to proceed. Likley to be similar in othe 'common law' jurisdictions.

OTOH the standard required to find an employer liable of failing in duty of care is lower, balance of probability instead of 'sure'.

A Squared
13th May 2018, 08:29
Presumably lack of evidence required to convince a jury so they were sure that the statutory offence was made out. In UK we require a greater than 50% probability of conviction for prosecution to proceed. Likley to be similar in othe 'common law' jurisdictions.

OTOH the standard required to find an employer liable of failing in duty of care is lower, balance of probability instead of 'sure'.

The alleged rape was in Canada, so I don't know how prosecutors do things there, but in the US I don't think it is quite as formal as assigning a probability, but there is still a judgment made on whether a conviction is likely and in some jurisdictions that is determined by a grand jury. cases which might not prosecuted could range from: "complete lack of evidence the allegations are true" .. to; "It almost certainly happened as alleged, but insufficient evidence exists to have much chance of a conviction". Beyond that, you're correct about Criminal vs Civil decisions. To get a criminal conviction the state much prove it's case "beyond a reasonable doubt" whereas in a civil case the two parties are (theoretically) appearing before the court on an equal footing so it's an either/or proposition with the decision going with the side favored by "The preponderance of evidence". A classic example of the is the OJ Simpson case. The Prosecution could not win a conviction in the criminal case, but the family of the murder victims were able to get a civil judgement in a wrongful death lawsuit for the same murders.

Deltasierra010
13th May 2018, 16:52
Leaving aside the details of the alleged rapes, the courts have to decide wether the airline handled the respective women correctly. I am assuming that they will accept that an illegal act " probably" took place unless the men concerned provide evidence to the contrary.

What should an employer do in a case like this where there is no evidence, no criminal case, and no previous record of misbehavior, opinions please.

Airbanda
14th May 2018, 08:27
What should an employer do in a case like this where there is no evidence, no criminal case, and no previous record of misbehavior, opinions please.


In UK best practice would be to hold an investigation in accordance with ACAS Guidelines (http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5507). Where the offence alleged is as serious as this it would probably be carried out by HR or a senior manager rather than immediate line management.

Investigation would take statements from complainant and alleged offender and from any witnesses as to parties' behaviour eg at hotel diner, bar etc in period preceding. If there is, as suggested in other similar case mentioned on this board, hotel CCTV then I guess that could be seen too. Investigator will report to Management on his/her finding as to facts based on credibility of accounts and on balance of probability. If offence is proven employer will take action up to and including dismissal.

Employee can appeal internally and if that fails to an Employment Tribunal - effectively a court.

MAy be different in Canada or US depending on Federal or State law*.

Having recently witnessed a serious disciplinary at my own place of work around bullying and inappropriate behaviour (non sexual) the investigating officer needs to be somebody at the top of their game and be prepared to be totally independent regarding both the investigation and reputational damage to the employer.

EDIT * In originally posting I was unclear as to how far Canadian angle on this went. Now see clearly it's a US airline with local staff based at Seattle/Tacoma but alleged offence took place in Edmonton Alberta. Thus one assumes criminal investigation was in hands of Canadian city/territory or federal police. Employer investigation/discipline and Civil Action against airline as employer follows rules for appropriate State as influenced by any Federal provision.

Blind Squirrel
15th May 2018, 03:57
8% is not "improbable".

As I say, it's a long time since I was in school. But when I was there, they taught me that 92 > 8. More than ten times as great, in fact. I believe they mentioned it in the context of a discussion of...ah yes, probabilities.

A Squared
15th May 2018, 04:21
As I say, it's a long time since I was in school. But when I was there, they taught me that 92 > 8. More than ten times as great, in fact. I believe they mentioned it in the context of a discussion of...ah yes, probabilities.


Uhh, yeah, obviously 8 percent is less probable than 92 percent. Nobody claimed anything different. However, what you have claimed is that the possibility that she is lying is too improbable to consider, which is horsecrap. 1 in 12 is not too improbable to consider.

Let me use your identical reasoning to construct "proof" the accused guy is innocent. This will help illustrate just how inane your reasoning is. The incidence of rape in the US is about 30 per 100,000. That's 0.0003% In other words, really "improbable", far less probable than 8%. For the sake of the example, if we assume that each rape is committed by a single perpetrator and each perpetrator commits only one, and half of population is men, that means that there's a 0.0006% probability that any one man is a rapist, which is still *very* improbable. So, according to your defective reasoning, we must assume that the accused is actually innocent, because there is only a 0.0006% probability that he is a rapist, far too improbable to consider. Nonsense? Yes, of course it is. Absurd? Yes, beyond Absurd. Completely devoid of logic? Yes. All that it true, it's absurd, illogical nonsense. But it also the *identical* rationale you have used to claim that we know the Flight Attendant is not fabricating her accusations.

pilotmike
15th May 2018, 11:52
Let me use your identical reasoning to construct "proof" the accused guy is innocent. This will help illustrate just how inane your reasoning is. The incidence of rape in the US is about 30 per 100,000. That's 0.0003% In other words,...

Not true. 30 in 100,000 is 0.03%, not 0.0003%. None of your subsequent figures based on that are correct.

A Squared
15th May 2018, 12:01
Not true. 30 in 100,000 is 0.03%, not 0.0003%. None of your subsequent figures based on that are correct.

You're correct, I forgot to convert from a decimal fraction to a percent. Mea Culpa. Completely irrelevant and doesn't change things one iota. 0.06% is still much smaller than 8%. Guilt, or truth of allegations are still not determined by statistical probability, and 1 out of every 12 rape accusations being fabricated is still significant, and it is still galactically stupid to insist that a rape allegation must be true because "only" 8% of such accusations are false.

PiggyBack
15th May 2018, 18:47
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates the 8% of rape accusations are fraudulent. 8%. Let that sink in for a moment. Out of every 12 rape accusations, 1 of them is false. That's compared to the 2% fraudulent whcih the FBI estimates for other crimes.

Again, I am not claiming that I believe the Sky West FA's claim is made up; I have no basis for knowing. But anyone who is claiming that it must be true because rape claims are inherently true, or that women are inherently honest, or that some occupational field is filled only with honest people, has departed rationality and is simply voicing prejudice and bias.

No one knows what percentage of rape claims is false. I believe the FBI have stated 8% as an estimate but supernatural powers would be necessary to be sure. Studies vary enormously and are very controversial. In Britain roughly 10% of accusations to the police result in a conviction. It varies a lot by region but around 15% of cases are classified as no crime by the police (ie. after investigation they decide no crime was committed). The remaining reports do not lead to conviction so who knows what actually happened. Realistically it is exactly the sort of thing you might expect to vary a lot by culture, circumstances etc. Exonerations by the innocence project are more commonly of men convicted for rape than any other crime so it is a real danger.

To me what is important is:
1. There are many genuine reports of rape
2. There are many incorrect reports of rape
3. The consequences of a conviction or even an investigation are severe.

Therefore investigations should be thorough even handed and as far as possible without preconceptions. All parties should be treated with consdieration and respect. Decisions on employment etc should wait for the results of an investigation. no one not even bloggers etc should jump to conclusions either way.

One thing I have read and I can't remember the reference is that almost all reports of date rape druggings in which toxicology test were performed were negative. Some city had performed hundreds of tests and all were negative. Typically the 'victim' consumed alcohol, and then woke up the next day with vague or missing memories, and serious regrets and therefore concluded that they had been drugged. They had but by themselves using alcohol.

There have been some genuine cases eg. John Worboys but they are very very rare.

Airbubba
17th May 2018, 18:50
Anybody hear about another Alaska Airlines incident involving alcohol and a flight cancellation last Friday night?

Airline Pilot Central and a closed union forum have reports that Alaska 886 from Lihue, Hawaii to SeaTac on May 11 was cancelled due to a crew issue after a hotel bartender reported allegations of misbehavior to the airline.

A Squared
17th May 2018, 18:53
Anybody hear about another Alaska Airlines incident involving alcohol and a flight cancellation last Friday night?

Airline Pilot Central and a closed union forum have reports that Alaska 886 from Lihue, Hawaii to SeaTac on May 11 was cancelled due to a crew issue after a hotel bartender reported allegations of misbehavior to the airline.

Why, Yes, I have heard that. And I've also heard that the coincidence doesn't end with it merely being the same airline.

Airbubba
18th May 2018, 15:47
Another #MeToo lawsuit by a former Alaska Air flight attendant who claims that she was drugged and raped (by the FO?) on a layover. :uhoh:

Flight attendant sues Alaska Airlines; says she was fired after reporting rape

By: Siemny Kim

Updated: May 16, 2018 - 9:33 PM A former Alaska Airlines flight attendant is suing the airline claiming she was fired after she reported she was drugged and raped during an overnight stop.

In a lawsuit just filed, Ashley Geffre claims she tried to do the right thing but the company fired her in retaliation.

She also said a first officer corroborated her story about possibly being drugged but he wasn't fired.“I've loved my job as a flight attendant,” Geffre said. “It’s taken me amazing places. I've met incredible people.”

It was a dream job Geffre, 25, working as a flight attendant for Alaska Airlines.

“It was probably the best three years of my life,” Geffre added.

But last August, that all changed during an overnight stay in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

“It's devastating,” she said.

She went out for dinner and drinks with the first officer.

“And the next day I woke up early in the morning around 6 or 7 a.m.,” she recalled. “And I had no clothes on. My clothes were on every corner of the room and I was scared.”

She believes she had been drugged and raped. But she didn’t know who was responsible.

“I felt severe cramping beyond menstrual pain. I felt itchy. I felt sexually assaulted,” Geffre described. “I had no idea what had happened.”

She later learned from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office more frightening details about that night.

“I was found in a stairwell by a security guard who swore under oath he did find me in a stairwell with my pants to my ankles and I was slouched over with vomit on me,” Geffre said.

Geffre notified the airline that she couldn’t fly that evening.

“I did the right thing,’ said Geffre. “I did not feel safe to fly.”

She said the first officer also claimed he was drugged and couldn’t fly.

“As soon as I returned to Seattle a few days later, they called me in for questioning,” she recounted. “And I went in with my union rep and I had no idea it was going to lead to termination.”



https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/flight-attendant-sues-alaska-airlines-says-she-was-fired-after-reporting-rape/750845665