Discrimination

[Auto Thompson]

I've recently heard of a number of racial discrimination events of a number of pilots by another colleague. The story could have been blown out of proportion, but when the story is heard more than once, then the saying "there's no smoke without fire" comes to mind.

What is management doing about it? Apparently covering it up and/or nothing! Whatever happened to the company's non-discrimination policy?

Apparently we are to celebrate said colleague's distinguished career.

[Xwindldg]

The more unusual thing would be if you could name 1 pilot in the whole company who hasn't made a "racial" or "discriminating" remark in the flight deck.

[Gnadenburg]

Indeed. Racism is endemic. In past industrial negotiations, western pilots referred to as gweilos by some local sections of KA management. I thought those sensitive to it snow-flakes, but who am I to judge? Should be completely stamped out and especially has no place on the professional flight deck.

[RAT Management]

Kiwi's ...... Need I say more!

[Oasis]

Don't you know? Only white people can be racist...

[EFIS Check]

I am truly appalled by such mean spirited assertions !
The company has put in place a very strict discrimination policy. It is a cornerstone of the corporate philosophy. It is ruthlessly enforced and has been for many years – no exceptions are made or deviations tolerated.
No matter what race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age or nationality, everybody gets shafted equally.
However to be fair to all flight deck crew, the company cannot discriminate against everybody at any one time and has hence developed a long term career-discrimination policy. Don't worry it will be your turn soon enough !
Should you not have been sufficiently discriminated against, please contact your superior manager and he will ensure you will get your share of discrimination soon.

[fl610]

I am truly appalled by such mean spirited assertions !
The company has put in place a very strict discrimination policy. It is a cornerstone of the corporate philosophy. It is ruthlessly enforced and has been for many years – no exceptions are made or deviations tolerated.
No matter what race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age or nationality, everybody gets shafted equally.
However to be fair to all flight deck crew, the company cannot discriminate against everybody at any one time and has hence developed a long term career-discrimination policy. Don't worry it will be your turn soon enough !
Should you not have been sufficiently discriminated against, please contact your superior manager and he will ensure you will get your share of discrimination soon.

Around here, you are all equally worthless!

[Flex88]

Want discrimination, go down to Hong Kong immigration department, and apply to "immigrate" to HK and get a HK SAR Passport. They (if you are non-Chinese) make no bones about it...
CX had a CEO who as well verbalised this same thought.

[swh]

Want discrimination, go down to Hong Kong immigration department, and apply to "immigrate" to HK and get a HK SAR Passport. They (if you are non-Chinese) make no bones about it...
CX had a CEO who as well verbalised this same thought.

it is a very easy process if you have the correct HKID. Fill in the form for Chinese citizenship wait a few weeks and then apply for the passport.

[Freehills]

Our chairman has HK Chinese passport- not that hard once you have PR

[quadspeed]

You're either fresh out of the academy or living in a bubble if surprised by this.

It's a conservative profession and always has been. Generally speaking, pilots are smart enough to avoid the obvious no-no's, but get a few years under your belt and you'll realise that still waters run deep.

[Ghost_Rider737]

Folks management love this stuff....divide and conquer

[Fat_Dumb_and_Unhappy]

The more worrying thing about the so called ‘Discrimination Policy’ and people saying “just go up to the 3rd floor”, is that people have gone up to complain about certain individuals. And as the original poster mentioned, one of them (IF) is getting a very nice send off for his retirement party...let’s hope he navigates the steps properly :ok:

We are not talking about guys being overly sensitive or even someone being a bit ignorant and not realising what they are saying is offensive, some of the things being said are clearly racist with an intent to offend. And unfortunately the feedback from upstairs has been along the lines of “Let’s just let this go...etc” and funnily enough, nothing happened to said individual, and instead he’s getting posters and emails sent out to come and ‘Celebrate’ this legend of a bloke!? :D

[mngmt mole]

When I joined, they called Brits "Pommey Bastards", Irish "potato head spics", Chinese "slope heads", Americans "dumb yanks" and Canadians "ignorant canucks". And every one of us had a laugh and got on with the job. Suddenly, the snowflake generation has their "feelings hurt" over a few verbal comments. Grow up everyone. This is the airline business, and if you can't take a few verbal slights you won't make much of an airline pilot. Really, this is beyond belief. Go to work and do your job. There will always be a racist bastard around no matter what the policy is. Deal with it (and don't go crying to mommy on the 3rd floor).

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

So what was the story?

[Freehills]

Old man shouts at cloud/ tells young folk to get of his lawn.

[flyingbynight]

Are management still the enemy or do we just allow trolls to turn us all against each other?

[Scoreboard]

The more worrying thing about the so called ‘Discrimination Policy’ and people saying “just go up to the 3rd floor”, is that people have gone up to complain about certain individuals. And as the original poster mentioned, one of them (IF) is getting a very nice send off for his retirement party...let’s hope he navigates the steps properly :ok:

We are not talking about guys being overly sensitive or even someone being a bit ignorant and not realising what they are saying is offensive, some of the things being said are clearly racist with an intent to offend. And unfortunately the feedback from upstairs has been along the lines of “Let’s just let this go...etc” and funnily enough, nothing happened to said individual, and instead he’s getting posters and emails sent out to come and ‘Celebrate’ this legend of a bloke!? :D

Appears you dont like IF and thus one can surmise you must have suffered an ass kicking from IF ....A person who doesnt tolerate fools and wannbe snowflakes. Go cry somewhere else.

[Starbear]

I suspect FD&U’s assessment is more accurate than yours in fact.



Appears you dont like IF and thus one can surmise you must have suffered an ass kicking from IF ....A person who doesnt tolerate fools and wannbe snowflakes. Go cry somewhere else.

[oriental flyer]

I’m surprised that the company hasn’t added a cry room to flight dispatch , so that those who feel the need to have a little cry when the situation becomes just too much to bear can do so in private . If the american universities have decided that it’s necessary for their students CX should consider it at the very least , after all our snowflakes are so precious

[cxorcist]

I’m surprised that the company hasn’t added a cry room to flight dispatch , so that those who feel the need to have a little cry when the situation becomes just too much to bear can do so in private . If the american universities have decided that it’s necessary for their students CX should consider it at the very least , after all our snowflakes are so precious

Where is the “like” button?

[spleener]

I suspect FD&U’s assessment is more accurate than yours in fact.



No.
If you know anything of IF's early career, and have discussed with him the various foreign assignments he engaged in, you would have more clarity.
I have known IF for more than 40 years. He has always been a gentleman, raconteur and socially adept. He is scathing of laziness and unprofessional conduct, but will support and mentor anyone making a sincere effort: Both cases without regard for Race, Colour or Creed.
He does like a few drinks, go ahead and castigate him for that if you feel the need...

[Cpt. Underpants]

An absolute gentleman. Consider yourself fortunate to have been trained by him.

[raven11]

A pilot’s pilot... An aviator with a proven track record of instructional success spanning decades.
An outstanding “flying” instructor who was a credit to the Cathay training machine.

Is further proof required? The Air Force A1 category instructional rating is extremely difficult to achieve and therefore rarely awarded. Mull that over...

[Fat_Dumb_and_Unhappy]

He may very well be a great trainer and a gentleman within a professional setting, but that doesn’t excuse some of the comments that he has said to others. And it hasn’t just been once or twice, there’s been a few times where the color of someone’s skin has been used as an example of CX being ‘desperate’ and ‘scraping the barrel’...etc

And yes, I’m sure all sorts of terms were used back in the old days which some of you have alluded to, but things have changed and people are less likely to put up with casual racism nowadays. Just because it was acceptable back then doesn’t mean it was right, otherwise we’d still have ‘Black face’, ‘Gollywogs’ and god knows what else.

Defend him all you want, he probably is a good bloke down at the bar and a great laugh, but it still doesn’t excuse the things he has said. However, it seems that being one of the ‘Boys’ gets you a free pass and anyone he offends just gets told to drop it!?

[Gray 14]

Frogs, Clogs and pollywogs.....and don't forget the blockheads. Where's the damage???

[oriental flyer]

The world has gone crazy , whilst I don’t agree with using derogatory names when referring to people of another race there are times when words are said in jest that may offend . Aren’t we big enough just to accept the barb and move on .
in the USA it seems to be acceptable for rap artists or blacks to refer to whites as crackers . But turn it around and let a white person use the “N” word when referring to an African American . They would be charged with a hate crime .
The Chinese have lots of derogatory words for white people , but for the most part the Caucasians simply let it go because we just don’t get that upset about it

[Mill Worker]

Some of the comments above suggest a dose of HTFU is required in some circles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[Gnadenburg]

This is a personal concern and my views in response to alarming comments above- not anonymous slurs against an individual .

A pre-requisite for a training position in normal parts of the world is empathy. If you think racial slurs is acceptable by someone in a supervisory or training position is OK, where they are in a position to make an break and career, try a little empathy. What about your kids?

Hong Kong is not normal. It's retarded. I know of blatant racists who think they are great trainers, belittling cadets with 150 hours, when they themselves have struggled and shown massive levels of insecurity in the upgrade programme. There's even reports of the gentle, friendly wrap on the knuckles of a cadets over here at KA. Wow, that's going to look great for expat pilots if it ends up in Apple Daily. So on one hand, the bullying is probably insecurity and you can see that a mile off with some of these guys, what about the others? The odd sociopath trainer desperate for management and for the Cold War relics, many elite military flying courses have moved well beyond inherent attitudes of some.

Hats off to the many professionals in training.

[Freehills]

Next you will be saying we can't use tyre irons to beat up the pooftahs! It's all just banter, can't they take a joke?

[Liam Gallagher]

"Hats off to the many professionals in training".

I see what you did there. Very clever:O

[Landflap]

Of course times change, we move on & wise up, a bit, Mate of mine failed to get into CX in 1978 because, being born in India, the Selection Board thought he was Indian. He does tan up beautifully though and after too much HK sun did look rather bl........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........African American. Just read that Guy Gibson was born in Simla and lived his first five years in India. Guess he would not have made it past the Cx Selection Board either. Mind you, he did look wh.........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........caucasian. Of course, if you had blond hair, blue eyes and white skin, you were well on your way past Part 1 of the Selection procedure. Additionally, if you were ex Mil, liked boats & you were a Freemason, you were IN !

40 years later, CX appears a bit more relaxed & colourful. Now, back to my current read ; Snow caucasion & her 7 height disadvantaged followers. Book signed by author using African American ink. Drat, maybe we have moved on a bit too far.

[SloppyJoe]

Identity politics. Why not just have three boxes and you tick one. Have a penis, don't have a penis, used to have a penis?

Racism is often misunderstood and people jump all over non racist comments. To be a racist means you dislike someone because of their race. I do not like the way the majority of mainlanders behave, I dislike it. That does not make me a racist as I would not judge an individual by their race. I do not like the cultural aspects of the majority, I do not have to, it is my right do dislike that. Often comments about cultural behaviour are mistaken as racist.

[mngmt mole]

Well said Sloppy. However, it is a sad reflection on the state of this airline (and many of it's employees) that this is seemingly the "topic of the week", considering all the other major issues that really DO affect our lives. There are too many snowflakes in this industry today. Fact.

[spleener]

[QUOTE=Landflap;10141962] Just read that Guy Gibson was born in Simla and lived his first five years in India. Guess he would not have made it past the Cx Selection Board either. Mind you, he did look wh.........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........caucasian.

Guy Gibson? Don't mention his dog!

[Gnadenburg]

As many Cathay pilots move off to the contract world at near one a day, perhaps the issue will be better understood in time as some will be on the receiving end of "cultural" checking and training.

[Flex88]

Yeh, yeh, yeh, here we go down the PC line, if you read the latest Weekly News Letter you can see it coming down the train tracks and coming fast..
Just wait, not long from now you can expect to be enrolled in another mandatory course in Learners World, again with no hrs credit; "Sensitivity Training", it's on the way. This will follow the perfunctory mounting of a list of trigger words in dispatch - and it's going to be very very long to cater for all the now 50+ genders and XX nationalities that work here . Fairly soon a "Gday Mate" will get you fired. No more yes Sir it'l be yes "Zir" so as not to offend.

Sad and disgusting all, snowflakes should get an extra ½ stripe so know and can then reduce our vocabulary down to about 50 words so as not to offend anyone of anything.

Only one fix for for this absurdity, "CXit"

[goingdown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0RfhvYN8s
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"

[WhatsaLizad?]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0RfhvYN8s
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"

Great video, until you consider that he berated the entire cadet group about racist graffiti that turned out to be a hoax, written by minority cadets.

[corrigin]

Great video, until you consider that he berated the entire cadet group about racist graffiti that turned out to be a hoax, written by minority cadets.

Well said. Lets not stone the heretic till everyone gets their facts straight.

Post #24 and #25 echo my sentiments.

[Flex88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0RfhvYN8s
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"

What the Air Force Academy hate crime hoax teaches us about the mainstream media and race | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/09/what-air-force-academy-hate-crime-hoax-teaches-us-about-mainstream-media-and-race.html)

I think this is what's called "reverse" discrimination caused by some "triggered" cadet trying to impose his/her own racial bias on what is probably a crowd of totally innocent and unassuming classmates (until this event)!
Sad, however this is the way Liberals prefer to do business. #FakeDiscrinination , and I've seen it at CX just like #Fakenews @ #CNN.
Much of this is imported and injected forcefully into our lives direct from our "quality" learning institutions; Cambridge & Oxford for example. Know of any grads from there??? Know of a company that loves to employ them??
Dignity and respect, 100% absolutely and without exception.. Triggered Snowflake SJW's ramming this garbage down everyones throats like it or not, you can cram it Zir .......
Just saying

[Freehills]

Damn- here was I thinking 88 in your name was due to it being a lucky number. The alternative explanation hadn’t crossed my mind until now.

[rhoshamboe]

Jesus Freehills. That's a bit punchy. Throwing that sort of stuff around ain't going to convince anyone of your point of view. The only thing that will bring people around to your way of thinking is sensible debate.
Ask Hillary how the name calling works out.

https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs

[Shep69]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0RfhvYN8s
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"

Wow.

Didn't know Tonto made 3-star.

Thanks for that I am happy for him. Great person. Good speech.

Other than that not a real useful thread. It simply comes down to not being a pig and doing the right thing. That doesn't preclude having some fun now and then (and most pilots are or should be pretty thick skinned), but I think most of us should have been taught by our parents what right and wrong is. Neither being a pig nor being a professional victim are admirable qualities.