Another passenger goes berserk on Delta...

[AmericanFlyer]

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Delta-flight-coffee-drink-cart-air-marshall-attack-12853826.php

[Lantern10]

What a Muppet.

[Bend alot]

Berserk, Muppet


or


Mental Health?

[cooperplace]

surprising this doesn't happen more often

[Piltdown Man]

And here is the interesting bit. The reaction by the authorities is deafeningly silent. Muppets, wierdos, people with mental and some physical health problems, criminals, etc. are not suitable to people to travel on public transport. The physical system and its limitation as defined by regulations is not designed for these sorts of people so they should be excluded by legislation. Change aircraft design and include a clearly specified surcharge to handle these people then their carriage may be permitted.

PM

[Kerosene Kraut]

If she even attacks the guard enroute to the restroom she might not be fit to fly at all. Sounds like mental illness not like just a short breakdown. The public should not be made the guinea pig for some global selection of borderline characters onboard. Get them to show some current medical fit to fly certificate before their next flight. Before every single one.

[evansb]

"...people with mental health problems and criminals are not suitable to travel on public transport..." ? Really? Kinda vague classifications for restricting travel don't you think? Or don't you?...

The vast majority of people with mental health problems pose no threat to themselves or to the public. As regards criminals,.. would an accountant convicted of fraud, or a person convicted of carrying marijuana 20-years ago be prohibited from using public transport in your world?

Terms such as "psychotic" or "dangerous criminal" as qualifying definitions would help your simplistic statement.

[Pinkman]

My son is autistic and like the approximately 1 in 68 children on the spectrum is prone to having melt downs. But on a flight back from LAX to London via Frankfurt (his first long-haul) two weeks ago he coped fine, even after we got caught up in the strikes at FRA, were re-routed several times losing our luggage on the way, and being tired, hungry, frazzled. The (fantastic) LH crew complimented us on him being so well behaved, not even realising he was autistic. It could so easily have gone the other way.. you never know. Its neither ethical or possible to discriminate in that way with any degree of efficiency and IMHO its pointless to have the discussion, frankly - if you cannot reliably screen mentally ill pilots like Andreas Lubitz how the heck are you going to screen pax?

[Bend alot]

And here is the interesting bit. The reaction by the authorities is deafeningly silent. Muppets, wierdos, people with mental and some physical health problems, criminals, etc. are not suitable to people to travel on public transport. The physical system and its limitation as defined by regulations is not designed for these sorts of people so they should be excluded by legislation. Change aircraft design and include a clearly specified surcharge to handle these people then their carriage may be permitted.

PM

Seems you and KK have just solved the pilot shortage!

In 2007, 45% of Australians aged 16-85 years, (or 7.3 million people), had at some point in their lifetime experienced a mental disorder. In the 12 months prior to the survey women were more likely than men to have had symptoms of mental illness. A higher rate of anxiety disorders among women was the main contributor to this difference.


1301.0 - Year Book Australia, 2009–10 (http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/1301.0Chapter11082009%E2%80%9310)

[Gove N.T.]

It’s no wonder that people are driven mad by all the palava that goes with air travel. I read after a gun event in the USA the spokesman for the NRA said that anyone on medication shouldn’t have a gun. That must account for close on 50% of those living in the USA, :-)

[Impress to inflate]

Have you tried Delta's coffee ??!!

[ZFT]

If she even attacks the guard enroute to the restroom she might not be fit to fly at all. Sounds like mental illness not like just a short breakdown. The public should not be made the guinea pig for some global selection of borderline characters onboard. Get them to show some current medical fit to fly certificate before their next flight. Before every single one.

Who are 'them'?

[zonoma]

If I am getting the correct vibe from the responses in this thread, you are saying that people with ASD should not be permitted to fly. So everyone should get an ASD test before they fly and if found to be on the spectrum refused? That will be quite a few aircraft suddenly losing their pilots.....

[Piltdown Man]

Are we playing people or the ball?

Maybe I should have been more specific. Maybe what I should have written was that are some people whose medical condition, either mental or physical or personal attitude to others makes them unfit to travel with members of the public. It is not fair that transport staff or worse, members of the traveling public should be placed in physical danger. It is also not fair that airlines have to suffer the economic penalties for carrying such passengers. After all, those without anti-social medical problems have rights too!

And I am acutely aware that many people suffer from some form of mental illness during their lives. Fortunately, their condition even at the height of their illness is such that they do not represent a danger to others or themselves. They are therefore suitable for air transport, much like a someone suffering from acute dysentery. Is it reasonable that people unsuitable for public travel can ruin everybody else's journey?

Being confined in an aircraft with someone intent on damaging themselves or others is not a good place to be. Unless of course I've got that wrong as well and someone says its OK. And how should it be policed? Not a clue.

PM

[Lonewolf_50]

After all, those without anti-social medical problems have rights too! One would hope.
Being confined in an aircraft with someone intent on damaging themselves or others is not a good place to be. Unless of course I've got that wrong as well and someone says its OK. No, you have that right.
And how should it be policed?
Taser? There was already an air marshall. Maybe another level of control is worth consideration?
The air marshal escorted Beach to the bathroom twice without incident, but on a third visit, Beach allegedly assaulted the air marshal by jumping on his back and attempting to choke him.
After the outburst, she was handcuffed to a seat where she spent the remainder of the flight.
Beach was identified as an American citizen living in London who also uses the name Sarah Cullum. Then again, the cuffs, when finally applied, finally did get her to be less of a problem.

[UPP]

Wonder how she's going to get back to the UK...

Ocean liner?

Passage on a cargo vessel?

Or make an adventure of it and drive all the way to the tip of Alaska, get a lift on a trawler, do a cross-deck transfer to a Russian vessel, back to a Russian port, take the Trans Siberian Express and then the Orient Express* to London. That'll cost a bit more than a standard air fare, I'll wager.

I'm assuming she gets a no-fly ban, of course.

* Fun fact; every so often the Orient Express passes about 100 ft from where I'm sitting right now, at a floor to ceiling window. I always watch in case there's a swarthy-looking chap wearing a homberg clinging precariously to the roof of a car.

[Radgirl]

Goodness, a lot of odd views on this thread. Some of the comments about mental health issues are disturbing. Very very few people with mental health issues are a risk to others, and if they are the risk does not suddenly apply when they get in a metal tube. Those with a fear of flying are perhaps the exception, but many do not consider that a mental health issue!

We have enough issues with doctors who have no knowledge of aviation medicine trying to certify whether patients are fit to fly with physical issues.......

The fact that this is newsworthy around the world suggests the number of people who cause problems due to mental health issues are very very few, and do not justify another layer of idiotic and incompetent regulations

The big issue is those that see an airport as an excuse to get as drunk as a skunk and then become abusive in flight.

[Piltdown Man]

Lets get a few things straight. All of us have a duty of care to others. A compassionate society looks after those less fortunate than themselves. Looking after those less fortunate than yourself requires effort and understanding and for serious conditions, special training. Public transport is designed, built and operated so that something like 99% of people can be safely taken from one place to another. Those who provide the public service are geared up to look after virtually all of the people who travel upon it. But I do not know of any public transport system that trains its staff to deal with passengers suffering from extreme mental disorders. Until public transport changes (staff, design, price, legislation, process etc.) it is better for everybody that anybody suffering from extreme mental disorders do not travel long distances in confined spaces unless approved to do so by a qualified person.

We have enough issues with doctors who have no knowledge of aviation medicine trying to certify whether patients are fit to fly with physical issues.......
Do we? I thought doctors took the patient's best interests first and would refuse to sign a person fit to fly if there was appropriate evidence to the contrary.

The big issue is those that see an airport as an excuse to get as drunk as a skunk and then become abusive in flight.
Not in this thread. However overall I would suggest that for my airline people with illnesses, both those that are known about and diagnosed those who suffer an unexpected turn for the worse, cause more disruption than drunks. Besides, it is in some ways easier to deal with a drunk.

...do not justify another layer of idiotic and incompetent regulations
So which regulations are these then?

We have for a long time been intolerant and uncaring of those unfortunate enough to suffer from mental illness. And we should do considerably more to help people so afflicted. But we shouldn't let common sense get in the way of emotion. Aeroplanes are not really nice places to be at the best of times and being on when you are ill will do nobody and good.

PM

[Bend alot]

Not in this thread. However overall I would suggest that for my airline people with illnesses, both those that are known about and diagnosed those who suffer an unexpected turn for the worse, cause more disruption than drunks. Besides, it is in some ways easier to deal with a drunk.



PM

Call you and raise you.

Just put some evidence on the table for that comment.

[lomapaseo]

... we should do considerably more to help people so afflicted. But we shouldn't let common sense get in the way of emotion.

It's probably the nuts

remove those and problem solved

[Piltdown Man]

Every day, those who choose to do so, receive an update of our previous days operations. We fly the best part of one million people every week. Our operations have been affected by crew shortages, slot restrictions, strikes, weather and several instances of passengers requiring medical attention. Not one one drunk!

PM

[Bend alot]

That's an impressive record and unique Piltdown Man.

The latest statistics reported to IATA by its member airlines point to a growing unruly passenger problem. For the period from 2007 to 2015, there were 49,084 reported cases, or one incident per 1,613 flights. But in 2015 alone, there were 10,854 instances of unruly passengers, amounting to one incident per 1,205 flights.

The type of incidents vary significantly, from low-level disobedience of crew instructions to major incidents involving aircraft diversions and passenger deplanement. Some 11% of unruly passenger reports were at level 2, which includes verbal aggression, and around 23% of cases mentioned alcohol as a factor.

And in the US.

The number of incidents involving unruly airline passengers has ballooned in 2017, leading airlines to physically restrain or remove aggressive and often drunken passengers more than ever before.
Bad behavior from passengers is cited as one of the top three safety concerns for crew members, who are increasingly responsible for de-escalating situations before they turn into one of the 444 cases when intoxicated passengers became violent.

[Fonsini]

When you cram 300 people into a narrow aluminum tube after they have fought their way through bad weather, bad traffic, and intrusive security screenings, pressurized them, fed them alcohol and added in the noise of a few screaming babies you can reasonably expect a few of them to “go nuts” every now and then. It is impossible to define a system of controls that will screen out every berserker.

[PukinDog]

People who can't handle alcohol and doing illegal drugs cause far more problems involving aggression and non-compliance than the occasional outburst or meltdown of a legitimate sufferer of a bona fide mental health problem. Challenging any authority/disregarding any rule simply because it is a rule designed for civility in public spaces or safety is also a deepening societal problem in many parts of the world including the US, so it's no surprise that the cross-section of society inside an aircraft cabin reflects it. Alcohol/drugs amplify uncivil behavior.

[scifi]

Perhaps he just didn't want to eat the Apples..

[JamaicaJoe]

When you cram 300 people into a narrow aluminum tube after they have fought their way through bad weather, bad traffic, and intrusive security screenings, pressurized them, fed them alcohol and added in the noise of a few screaming babies you can reasonably expect a few of them to “go nuts” every now and then. It is impossible to define a system of controls that will screen out every berserker.

Very true. Flying has gotten much less enjoyable and far more stressful than say 20 or 25 years ago. Lets roll back the seating to where it was in 1998. Let folks check bags like they did in 1998 and simplify the security process like 1998. It has been like boiling frogs the way all has changed for the worse over the years.