View Full Version : Israel flies stealth missions over Iranian nuclear bases
Lyneham Lad
31st Mar 2018, 08:33
Article in The Times today.
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-flies-stealth-missions-over-iranian-nuclear-bases-8rnqkcf0b?shareToken=67503e88adecb48c80d6de667fb66d38)
Israel has been flying its new stealth fighter-jets over Iranian nuclear bases, according to a Kuwaiti newspaper that is thought to be used as an outlet for Israeli messages to the Arab world.
The al-Jarida newspaper claimed this week that two of Israel’s F-35 fighters flew over Syria and Iraq to reach Iranian airspace and were undetected by radar. Israeli officials did not respond to the report in the newspaper.
Mind you, the next sentence in the article might give an impression of the depth of knowledge of the journalist...
Heathrow Harry
31st Mar 2018, 09:14
How much do you think Mr Putin, Pooh Bear or the Young Leader would pay for a damaged F-35?????? Or even parts of it..........
Even the best Air Forces occasionally lose an advanced aircraft - often due to mechanical issues
Rhino power
31st Mar 2018, 09:38
How much do you think Mr Putin, Pooh Bear or the Young Leader would pay for a damaged F-35?????? Or even parts of it..........
Even the best Air Forces occasionally lose an advanced aircraft - often due to mechanical issues
Much better to just wrap them up in cotton wool and leave them in a hangar to protect all that advanced technology and huge investment from falling into the hands of the ne'er do wells, eh? :hmm: :rolleyes:
-RP
The combat radius of the F-35A is 590nm. The one way range from Israel to a site in Iran, such as Natanz, is 1100nm. Figure it out.
Even assuming they have a suitable friend provide a tanker over the Gulf they would be sucking on fumes to reach it - and without any acceptable diversion if there were a problem.
You could hypothesise about tanking over Saudi etc - but that’s not what the story states, but might be trying to imply. In which case it is, depending on the source, the story is as likely to be propaganda as truth.
A_Van
31st Mar 2018, 10:51
Quoting "The al-Jarida newspaper claimed this week that two of Israel’s F-35 fighters flew over Syria and Iraq to reach Iranian airspace and were undetected by radar".
Looks like these newspaper guys were on both sides at the same time :-)
"Hey, we are flying, do you see us? No."
For HH: do not overestimate a value of F-35 for Russia, either in pieces, or as a whole. Some old and well-known stuff....
Cazalet33
31st Mar 2018, 11:09
Is it mere co-incidence, or happenstance, that the Israeli propaganda machine issued this stuff at the same time as they admitted attacking Syria?
glad rag
31st Mar 2018, 11:45
Didn't one have a massively 'uge birdstrike about the same time?
Heathrow Harry
1st Apr 2018, 07:05
Is it mere co-incidence, or happenstance, that the Israeli propaganda machine issued this stuff at the same time as they admitted attacking Syria?
probably issued to cover shooting dead 16 Palestinian demonstrators (again)
Cazalet33
1st Apr 2018, 07:31
Plinking Palestians in their barbed wire cage is a national sport for those guys. Flying single engine bombers to Iran is a whole 'nuther game.
It required very unstealthy tankering; and that required the co-operation of the gum-chewing conquerors of Iraqi airspace (plus a bit of Nelsonian diplomacy by the Hashem guy).
Heathrow Harry
1st Apr 2018, 08:42
Yes - amazing how effective in cutting the light those sun glasses worn by Saudi's are on a nice March day ...................
Clearly managed to get hold of the tanker version of the B2. There's been 6 converted I believe.
glad rag
2nd Apr 2018, 12:02
Clearly managed to get hold of the tanker version of the B2. There's been 6 converted I believe.
In before the chimes :D
The most interesting part of this thread to me is that the same guys who author virulent anti-American posts are even more vehemently anti-Israeli. Kinda speaks to where their heart is at.
sandiego89
2nd Apr 2018, 12:52
Even assuming they have a suitable friend provide a tanker over the Gulf ......
ARI: Clearly managed to get hold of the tanker version of the B2. There's been 6 converted I believe....
...and that required the co-operation of the gum-chewing conquerors.....
I think you will find that Israel has their own tankers, around five or six boom equipped 707-320's (and maybe even a KC-135). While information on these assets is sparse, they exist and they should be quite capable of supporting the F-35, even without the evil, gum chewing USA or the Saudis being involved....
Would not be surprised if a few A operators go with the probe of the B and C versions to allow refueling from drogues. Believe the space is still there on the A.
The question being the fuel would be required over or to the east of Syria or Saudi Arabia both outbound and on return - and how you would expect a non-stealthy Israel based tanker to get from A to B and return.
Fareastdriver
2nd Apr 2018, 13:50
Fly during Ramadan.
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 13:56
Can you imagine the furore if the Russkies were to put a brace of MiGs or Sukhois or White Swans into the London or Scottish FIRs and orbit over Aldermaston, Burghfield, Coulport or Porton Down?
BoJo would be straight over to the UNSC with a quivering lower lip to throw his rattle out of his pram. Somehow when it's the Israelis who are the aggressors: not a peep.
One does wonder why the Israelis took the risk with single engine aircraft for no particular dividend. As has been pointed out, the wreckage of a crashed F-35 would fetch a few Roubles or Yuan. The Iranians don't like Dollars nowadays, but Roubles and Yuan are much in demand as they are a much 'harder' currency than the debauched greenback.
Heathrow Harry
2nd Apr 2018, 14:29
"how you would expect a non-stealthy Israel based tanker to get from A to B and return."
maybe they came across a friendly tanker from someone else along the way??? You know how it goes - you're stooging along, hosepipes deployed an when you get back to base you've inadvertently lost 10,000 litres of fuel.... "never saw nuffin Boss - and there was nothing on the radar either - go check ..."
Might even get you a promotion ..................
polax52
2nd Apr 2018, 16:16
The most interesting part of this thread to me is that the same guys who author virulent anti-American posts are even more vehemently anti-Israeli. Kinda speaks to where their heart is at.
I'm passionately patriotic to both of my countries, the US and the UK. I dislike the behaviour of the expansionist Iranians in the middle east. It is however, to any reasonable person totally unacceptable what the Israeli's did last Friday.
If a British soldier shot a kid in Northern Ireland for throwing a stone during the troubles, he'd spend the rest of his life in Jail. Quite rightly.
Heathrow Harry
2nd Apr 2018, 16:29
"If a British soldier shot a kid in Northern Ireland for throwing a stone during the troubles, he'd spend the rest of his life in Jail. Quite rightly."
these days you're right - but not the Paras at Bloody Sunday.................
The Israelis have a poor sense of proportion - over-reaction every time
polax52
2nd Apr 2018, 16:38
Even Bloody Sunday is no comparison to the Israeli action. Bloody Sunday saw 28 unarmed people shot. the Israeli's shot over 700.
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 16:41
Not with stealth aircraft in Iran, they didn't.
Let's get back on track.
In before the chimes :D
I knew I was pushing the deadline but thought what the hell.
One does wonder why the Israelis took the risk with single engine aircraft for no particular dividend.Ummmm, the only stealth aircraft available to them is single engine. So accepting the risk of single engine was pretty much mandatory to get the dividend of stealth.
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 17:12
What "dividend"?
I'm passionately patriotic to both of my countries, the US and the UK. I dislike the behaviour of the expansionist Iranians in the middle east. It is however, to any reasonable person totally unacceptable what the Israeli's did last Friday.Why? The US flew U2s over Russia when it was assumed (falsely as it turned out) that they were too high to be shot down. The US flew SR-71s over several nation's sovereign airspace on multiple occasions. Most "reasonable people" thought it was quite "acceptable" to do so.
If a British soldier shot a kid in Northern Ireland for throwing a stone during the troubles, he'd spend the rest of his life in Jail. Quite rightly.A British soldier who violated a home owner's private property to investigate a bombing is very very different than a soldier who shoots an unarmed kid. Likewise, most "reasonable" people consider violating sovereign airspace to gather intel as someting very very different than dropping bombs.
However, the fact that the reconnaisance platform can also double as a weapons platform would seem to send a rather powerful political and military message.
The Israelis have a poor sense of proportion - over-reaction every timeHmmmmm. Iran has stated not only their willingness but their extreme eagerness to nuke Israel and Israel responding with stealth recon overflights of nuclear facilities is an "over-reaction"??!!!
Some folks have a really odd sense of proportion.
What "dividend"?
What part of "get the dividend of stealth" was hard to understand?
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 17:32
However, the fact that the reconnaisance platform can also double as a weapons platform would seem to send a rather powerful political and military message.
The message, in a word: WAR.
The message, in a word: WAR.That's the message you have chosen to read. Other (more "reasonable") people read an entirely different message. Especially considering the timing. Israel just admitted they bombed the Syrian nuclear facility without a war. They appear to be saying they could (and would) do the same in Iran.
The US told N Korea they could (and would) take out their nuclear facilities without a war. Suddenly their leader is ready to talk about their nukes. Funny how that works, yes?
SASless
2nd Apr 2018, 17:41
There are heaps of options you have not listed.
Use your imagination a bit....the Israeli's sure do when it comes to a need to be creative.
The air craft are the latest stealth designs and a four engine Tanker sure looks like an Airliner from a distance especially at night.
The combat radius of the F-35A is 590nm. The one way range from Israel to a site in Iran, such as Natanz, is 1100nm. Figure it out.
Even assuming they have a suitable friend provide a tanker over the Gulf they would be sucking on fumes to reach it - and without any acceptable diversion if there were a problem.
You could hypothesise about tanking over Saudi etc - but that’s not what the story states, but might be trying to imply. In which case it is, depending on the source, the story is as likely to be propaganda as truth.
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 17:42
Why fly bombers over someone else's country.
Why do that?
Why fly bombers over someone else's country.
Why do that?WHY? Already answered. To send a message.
Why put nukes on bombers and fly them along the borders of the Soviet Union? To send a message.
Why put nukes on submarines that patrol the borders of the Soviet Union? To send a message.
Why put nukes on missiles that can reach the Soviet Union? To send a message.
NONE of those messages were declarations of war.
The combat radius of the F-35A is 590nm. The one way range from Israel to a site in Iran, such as Natanz, is 1100nm. Figure it out.
Even assuming they have a suitable friend provide a tanker over the Gulf they would be sucking on fumes to reach it - and without any acceptable diversion if there were a problem.
You could hypothesise about tanking over Saudi etc - but that’s not what the story states, but might be trying to imply. In which case it is, depending on the source, the story is as likely to be propaganda as truth.The air distance from Israel to international airspace in the Persian Gulf is about 790 miles. Let's call it 800. That's well within the range of an F-35. Once tanked in the Persian Gulf, an F-35 can reach most of Iran and return to the Gulf to get tanked again. And that assumes the Israelis don't have any stealthy fuel tanks. If the Israelis have developed stealthy external tanks, or developed tanks that can fit inside the F-35's weapons bay, the equation could be very different.
Further, some "friend" might provide air cover for the Israeli tanker when it's in the Persian Gulf airspace. Maybe an Aegis ship. Maybe a carrier. Maybe both.
glad rag
2nd Apr 2018, 18:34
I dislike the behaviour of the expansionist Iranians in the middle east.
"ROFL" @ that one.
Just who have they bombed back to the stone age these last 3 years then???
glad rag
2nd Apr 2018, 18:37
The air distance from Israel to international airspace in the Persian Gulf is about 790 miles. Let's call it 800. That's well within the range of an F-35. Once tanked in the Persian Gulf, an F-35 can reach most of Iran and return to the Gulf to get tanked again. And that assumes the Israelis don't have any stealthy fuel tanks. If the Israelis have developed stealthy external tanks, or developed tanks that can fit inside the F-35's weapons bay, the equation could be very different.
Further, some "friend" might provide air cover for the Israeli tanker when it's in the Persian Gulf airspace. Maybe an Aegis ship. Maybe a carrier. Maybe both.
Where's Carol Voderman when you, er, need her?
Cazalet33
2nd Apr 2018, 19:57
To send a message.
Sending bombers over someone else's country is a very American way of thinking.
Quite piratical, actually.
Why did the Yehudis, America's poisonous daughter in the Middle East, choose to use American "stealth" bombers to "send a message".
glad rag
2nd Apr 2018, 21:12
What part of "get the dividend of stealth" was hard to understand?
depends if you're a shareholder on not "ken"
West Coast
2nd Apr 2018, 22:54
Sending bombers over someone else's country is a very American way of thinking.
I’m sure the lads in the RAF that bombed Germany will be glad to know that.
Jabba_TG12
3rd Apr 2018, 12:05
"If a British soldier shot a kid in Northern Ireland for throwing a stone during the troubles, he'd spend the rest of his life in Jail. Quite rightly."
these days you're right - but not the Paras at Bloody Sunday.................
The Israelis have a poor sense of proportion - over-reaction every time
Kind makes you wonder why Hamas keep on volunteering these kids as bullet catchers in the first place, when they know that full well, eh Harry?:hmm::rolleyes:
Jabba_TG12
3rd Apr 2018, 12:09
Why fly bombers over someone else's country.
Why do that?
You're on a Military Aviation thread and you're seriously posing that question?
Wouldnt you be more at home on The Canary or Skwawkbox?:rolleyes::ugh:
Jabba_TG12
3rd Apr 2018, 12:12
"ROFL" @ that one.
Just who have they bombed back to the stone age these last 3 years then???
You're plainly not even the remotest bit concerned about their proxy, HizbAllah playing a very active part in the goings on in Syria, under the direction of Assad's Ba'athists, then?
Or is it only a "war crime" when it suits - like when Americans and Israeli's are involved?
SASless
3rd Apr 2018, 12:35
Bomb them back to the Stone Age...really?
Would not require much bombing to do that would it?
golder
3rd Apr 2018, 14:42
With all the stuff that would probably do it better. Why would they send a block 3i f-35 on a reccy?
Lonewolf_50
3rd Apr 2018, 14:53
Why did the Yehudis, America's poisonous daughter in the Middle East, choose to use American "stealth" bombers to "send a message".
1. The stealth bomber is the B-2. The F-35 is not a bomber by any stretch of the imagination. It is, however, an aircraft that can carry weapons. I invite you to check out the F-35 Cancellation thread in this very sub forum for detailed discussion on how many bombs can be carried in stealth mode by an F-35. (So far, not much of a load).
2. Why indeed send strike aircraft over Iranian airspace? I won't offer to answer that question for two reasons: (a) it was a rhetorical question (b) others have provided some answers.
3. Rhetorical question for you: did they really send a few over, or is this whole thing OPDEC? (Or is it even a simple wind up?).
If you believe the story at all. Personally I believe to be a totally made up story by the Arab press.
Lonewolf_50
3rd Apr 2018, 16:02
ORAC, am I to believe that this Kuwaiti newspaper has better radar than the Iranian air defense system, or might this be ** shudder ** real fake news? :confused:
The Arab street and press be a continuous source and reporter of both conspiracy theories and fake news?
Perish the thought.....
Sending bombers over someone else's country is a very American way of thinking.
Quite piratical, actually.
This "very American way of thinking" is clearly shared by the RAF.
Why did the Yehudis, America's poisonous daughter in the Middle East, choose to use American "stealth" bombers to "send a message".Really? You pretend not to understand? But OK, let's play your game. Assuming this indeed happen, to demonstrate they can do so whenever they choose and demonstrate that the Iranian nuclear facilities are at risk of immediate destruction.
And no, they were not "American "stealth" bombers. Yes, they were manufactured in America, but they are owned and operated by the Israeli Air Force, the military air arm of another sovereign nation.
And BTW, Yehudis is a plural form of the slur you chose to use to refer to a nation of nearly 8.5 million.
Heathrow Harry
4th Apr 2018, 08:28
Correct on all counts there Ken....
and we don't need that language.....
SASless
4th Apr 2018, 14:07
Unless I missed something in the translation...F-35’s cannot carry those rather large and heavy penetrators needed to destroy underground nuclear facilities the Iranians have so many of currently.
The bomb truck of choice for that task is the B-1 which the USAF has not shared with anyone.
melmothtw
4th Apr 2018, 14:25
If you believe the story at all. Personally I believe to be a totally made up story by the Arab press.
ORAC, am I to believe that this Kuwaiti newspaper has better radar than the Iranian air defense system, or might this be ** shudder ** real fake news?
The Arab street and press be a continuous source and reporter of both conspiracy theories and fake news?
Perish the thought.....
As opposed to..... The US press... pot, kettle black......
The newspaper that published this particular story is 'understood' to be something of an Israeli conduit into the Arab world, which is why the report is being lent so much credence.
melmothtw
4th Apr 2018, 14:26
Unless I missed something in the translation...F-35’s cannot carry those rather large and heavy penetrators needed to destroy underground nuclear facilities the Iranians have so many of currently.
The bomb truck of choice for that task is the B-1 which the USAF has not shared with anyone.
The MOP is carried by the B-2.
SASless
4th Apr 2018, 15:21
My mistake...Old Timers catching up with me.....I was thinking B-2 but typed B-1!:ugh:
melmothtw
4th Apr 2018, 18:02
Well, your point about only the USAF flying it still stands, so no foul...