View Full Version : RECAT-EU / London TMA
good egg
22nd Mar 2018, 19:11
Anyone “in-the-know” about when RECAT-EU might be rolled out in the London TMA?
- Presumably sometime after all the EFPS transitions?
Gonzo
22nd Mar 2018, 19:29
It's airport specific, and it only really gives you benefits if you have lots of heavies.
RECAT EU requires separation between a pair of Lights.
Not sure if it would give Gatwick a benefit, maybe Manchester too, but other than that I can't see it being introduced anywhere else.
good egg
22nd Mar 2018, 19:42
It's airport specific, and it only really gives you benefits if you have lots of heavies.
Not necessarily true Gonzo. As I see it the RECAT puts a lot of UK “L” and “S” into the same category - which could be hugely beneficial to some airports...
...I can certainly think of one TMA airport (other than EGLL) which would benefit from the changes, both for arrivals and departures.
I suspect there are a few regional airports which would also benefit, given their fleet mixes
good egg
22nd Mar 2018, 19:43
Not necessarily true Gonzo. As I see it the RECAT puts a lot of UK “L” and “S” into the same category - which could be hugely beneficial to some airports...
...I can certainly think of one TMA airport (other than EGLL) which would benefit from the changes, both for arrivals and departures.
I suspect there are a few regional airports which would also benefit, given their fleet mixes
(And a few current UK “M” aircraft into that same category.)
Gonzo
22nd Mar 2018, 20:03
Yes, very true, I shouldn't have put 'only'!
good egg
22nd Mar 2018, 20:27
Yes, very true, I shouldn't have put 'only'!
But I get the overall picture too. I’m guessing I shouldn’t hold my breath...(much as some folk might want me to! :D )
ZOOKER
22nd Mar 2018, 23:35
'RECAT-EU'....Is that putting a/c closer together, good egg? Putting profit before safety?
good egg
23rd Mar 2018, 04:58
'RECAT-EU'....Is that putting a/c closer together, good egg? Putting profit before safety?
Not really Zooker. In some cases WT minima is reduced yes, in other cases it is established, e.g. WT departure separation would have to be applied between a L following a L.
One could argue that RECAT-EU is more safe than what we do today.
It’s down to research (and science) but with the safety assurance required by the industry.
Depending on the airport concerned, and its fleet mix, there will be variation in the potential efficiency benefit.
Gonzo
23rd Mar 2018, 05:13
I prefer it; it makes more sense to have a scheme based on data and analysis rather than the old scheme which was more or less a guess based on wetting one’s finger and holding it aloft.
good egg
23rd Mar 2018, 19:25
I prefer it; it makes more sense to have a scheme based on data and analysis rather than the old scheme which was more or less a guess based on wetting one’s finger and holding it aloft.
What?!? Rules based on data and analysis rather than anecdotes and heresay?!? Craziness!?! ;)
But seriously, I agree (as it’s simple enough for even me to understand). I guess it may be problematic to roll-out though -even if it was only for departures - unless both categories (the old and the new) for each aircraft type can be shown on the strip?
Gonzo
23rd Mar 2018, 20:25
Well, we’ve gone arrivals and departures, so it’s simple. I’m not sure having UK 6 Cat and RECAT designators on the strip would be good from a human factors point of view, nor doing one for arrivals and one for departures.
It’s really for each airport to decide to switch.
good egg
23rd Mar 2018, 20:46
It’s really for each airport to decide to switch.
If only it was that simple. There’s a lag in any system for changes like this to take place, despite the will...
Gonzo
23rd Mar 2018, 21:04
Oh yes, I’m well aware of lead time for this sort of thing. Cost Benefit Analysis, Training Needs Analysis etc.
My point, poorly made, was that the impetus should come from the Airport; as far as I’m aware there is no overall campaign of converting all Airport approach/departure separations to RECAT.
good egg
24th Mar 2018, 12:06
Oh yes, I’m well aware of lead time for this sort of thing. Cost Benefit Analysis, Training Needs Analysis etc.
My point, poorly made, was that the impetus should come from the Airport; as far as I’m aware there is no overall campaign of converting all Airport approach/departure separations to RECAT.
Thanks Gonzo
Gonzo
24th Mar 2018, 13:19
No dammit, we’re meant to argue!
good egg
27th Mar 2018, 16:22
Is the TMA and en-route airspace infrastructure able to handle this?.
Well, they’ve got radar, right?
Staffing ok for potential increases in runway utilisation of up to 10%?
Packer27L
3rd Feb 2019, 09:19
Nearly 12 months on, any more news on RECAT-EU hitting our shores?
A quick google search brings up a NATS presentation saying it will be introduced at LL in Spring 2018, so am I just out of the loop?
In and working, both arrivals and departures at LL