Modular PPL (?)

[DylanV]

Hi,

This is a bit of a weird one and I can't seem to find any other thread regarding this.

I want to do my PPL this summer, and I will be in Canada for a month or so visiting family and thought it would be great to use this opportunity to get my PPL (due to very cheap flying costs on that side of the Atlantic). Note: I live in the UK.

My issue is this, I only have 4/5 weeks over there, and won't have enough time to do all of it. So I was thinking I could do my ground school etc here in the UK, go there and do my 45+ hours at a local flight school, and then come back here and finish off any requirements (cross country flight etc) and then do the skills test here and get my EASA PPL.

Would this be something that is achievable and even possible? I'm worried there will be issues in doing my skills test and continuing my training here after getting my initial 45+ hours in Canada.
If there is anyone that could give me some advice on this that would be amazing!

Thanks
Dylan

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome to PPRuNe Dylan,

I cannot offer you an authoritative answer, but what I suggest would be to contact some of the larger flying schools in Canada, and explain what you'd like to do. Perhaps they have familiarity with teaching to EASA requirements, and present portions of your training accomplished in that format.

While you're in Canada, float flying is pretty common, try to sample some while your here...

Pilot DAR

[MrAverage]

DylanV

If you carry out any training outside of the EASA member states without gaining a licence, none of the training will count towards an EASA licence issued in the UK. (Another nonsense that has come out of Europe)


The only exception is if you do the training at a Flight School abroad that is approved by EASA. There are very few of these now.


Where are you in the UK?

[TelsBoy]

EASA has shut down most of these avenues that were available to people.


I wouldn't rush if I was you; take your time and enjoy it. Are you working towards a commercial license?

[DylanV]

Thanks guys,

That's disappointing to hear, and it was what I was worried about.

The only reason I wanted to do the training in Canada is that it is much more affordable there, and I would be staying with family. I'm currently based in Oxford, so I guess I'll just have to save up a bit more and do my training here.

I do intend to work my way up to commercial but at the moment I don't have the funding and so will just be doing my PPL for now

Thanks again for the help

[alex90]

VERY few people pass at 45h sharp... I don't see it doing much harm getting SOME tuition in Canada, even if it doesn't count towards your EASA licence. It could be fun, the scenery is incredible, and it could immerse you in this whole flying malarky!

More importantly however, it could reduce the additional hours that you would otherwise need to pass your PPL in the UK. For instance, if you did 10 - 15 hours in Canada, perhaps you might even do your first solo circuit too. When you come back to the UK, if you keep flying (semi) regularly, you will know that you will likely only require the minimum 45 hours stipulated by EASA to be done in the UK. (just remember to be humble about your prior achievements)

There are SOME differences to the flying, and operating procedures, but the plane itself definitely flies the same!

A few tips that I can't emphasise enough though,

1. get a trial lesson in the UK before you go, see if you like / love it enough to give up time, enthusiasm and other endeavours to prioritise flying.

2. if you're not young and in full health with no prior medical issues, get a class 2 medical to make sure you're not wasting your time.

3. Do some groundschool prior to embarking your journey to get a basic understanding of flying and what each bit roughly entails (I like the Pooley books, people like different mediums). In the UK, you generally need airlaw exam before first solo, but it will make you understand parts of the syllabus being taught.

4. Never pay upfront!

I hope this helps!

[DylanV]

Hmm, that is an idea.
I did do a flying course before whilst I was in the CCF Air Cadets. I flew about 10 hours and did a solo circuit, but I was 17 and silly/careless and lost the logbook :/ That's why I feel like I could do it in around 45 hours, maybe a few more. But I will definitely look into doing a few hours while I'm out there in Canada, my only issue being money really. But thanks for the advice, it really helped :)

One question, if did do let's say 10 hours in Canada, then came back here and did the 45 hours and got my licence, will those 10 hours count towards my total hours even though they don't count towards the EASA requirement?

[BillieBob]

Any flying you do will count towards your total experience but not towards the 45 hours required for EASA PPL issue. Are there any PPL schools at Oxford these days? If so, go along and have a chat - you may be able to negotiate a deal.

[BEagle]

Or schools which have actually heard about the LAPL?

[Duchess_Driver]

Pilot Flight Training - Flying Lessons | Trial Flying Lesson | Oxford | Oxfordshire- Home - Pilot Flight Training (http://www.pilotflighttraining.com/)

are based at EGTK, as are

Learn to Fly | Flying Lessons & Pilot Training in Oxford & London (http://www.goflyoxford.co.uk/)

But why not think about it from a different point of view and do your Transport Canada PPL whilst in Canada then convert it to EASA later. With a good instructor and well planned then you should be able to do it in 4-5 weeks at the right school.

[DylanV]

My original plan was to get my licence in Canada and then convert it, but I have been told numerously that doing it in 4-5 weeks is not likely, and I don't want to spend all that money on training and then be able to get my licence, since I don't know when I will be able to go back and complete it.

Do you (anyone here) think that it is possible to do in 4-5 weeks? Maybe if I do the ground school beforehand?

[Duchess_Driver]

Based on an EASA requirement of 45hours airborne training (not sure what the TC requirements are) then yes, it is possible to do but it does require planning and pre-work and hard work when your out there.

4 weeks at 6 days / week = 24 training days, 2 trips per day =48 trips and each one (certainly as far as navigation is concerned) may be longer than an hour....

[BEagle]

50 years ago tomorrow, I started my PPL course with the Bedfordshire Air Centre at Cranfield on the Cessna 150. The 35 hour course was very similar to the current LAPL(A) course, only the latter has rather better privileges for brand-new licence holders.

Like you, Dylan V, I had some previous cadet experience but it was 'A' and 'B' gliding badge level only, with a couple of passenger trips in light aircraft.

First PPL course flight: 25 Mar 68
First solo: 29 Mar 68
QX/C: 12 Apr 68 (Good Friday!)
PPL test: 19 Apr 68
Total time: 20:20 PU/T, 14:40 PIC

So it should be possible to complete a 30 hr LAPL course in 4/5 weeks, but only if you devote 6 days per week to it (as we did) and don't have any other commitments.

Once you have a LAPL, you can upgrade it to a PPL when funds / experience allow.

The problem will be to find a school which isn't stuck in the 'always done it this way' mold and actually knows about the LAPL!

[rudestuff]

If the weather holds out, and the school plays along it should be easily achievable in your time frame. As an example there are places in the US that offer a PPL in 2-3 weeks provided your knowledge is up to scratch. Two flights a day @ 1.5 hours and you’re looking at 15 flyable days.

You will hear people say that very few people pass in 45 hours etc. That is probably because most people don’t do it in one go - if you spread it out you’ll get skill-fade and be constantly relearning things. Doing an intensive course will be much more efficient. Any change of school will inevitably lead to more hours flown because they will have to satisfy themselves by going over what the last school taught you. The ideal scenario is: Get all the study done first, so that day 1 you can take the exams. Then all you have to do is turn up every day and fly.

The cheapest option for you is clearly a Canadian PPL. So get one. You do not need an EASA PPL to start an EASA CPL course, any ICAO PPL will suffice. You can get it validated in the UK for next to nothing so there is no need to convert anything either.

[DylanV]

Thank you all, this is very helpful information

I am going to go ahead with the plan and get my PPL in Canada :D I will also look into options for the LAPL and have that as a sort of backup in case I can't finish the PPL in the time frame

[rudestuff]

Good decision. Get an online TC PPL course and make sure you show up prepared.

[BackPacker]

I will be in Canada for a month or so visiting family

My original plan was to get my licence in Canada and then convert it, but I have been told numerously that doing it in 4-5 weeks is not likely,

The two quotes taken in combination is the problem.

You can get a PPL in three weeks even. I did it in Florida a while back. (See the sticky elsewhere in this forum.) But here's the catch: It requires total dedication.

I spent several months ahead of time studying all the theory, 2-3 hours an evening, three evenings a week. And while I was in Florida I was flying, or doing things related to flying, seven days a week for 21 days straight. Yes, initially each flight is only an hour but expect half an hour before and afterwards with the instructor briefing, plus two hours digesting the flight and preparing for the next one. So those two flight hours all of a sudden translated into eight hours. Then you've got to pass the theory exams: Under EASA that's seven exams that take at least an hour each just to sit. If you need any preparations, or a retake, expect even more time.

And then by the time you get to go cross-country, the flights get longer but so does the preparation work.

I'm not trying to discourage you. In fact, I found the experience of immersing yourself in aviation for three weeks, and coming out of it with a fresh license, immensely rewarding. But do take it seriously. Don't expect this to be a holiday with a bit of flying on the side. Don't expect to see much (or anything) of your family. And do expect a lot of theory study and other groundwork before you leave.

[9Aplus]

... Then you've got to pass the theory exams: Under EASA that's seven exams that take at least an hour each just to sit. If you need any preparations, or a retake, expect even more time.

More than seven....

Modul PPL(A)
01 - Air Law 0:45
02 - Human Performance 0:40
03 - Meteorology 0:45
04 - Communications 0:30
05 - Principles of Flight 0:45
06 - Operational Procedures 0:30
07 - Flight Performance and Planning 1:00
08 - Aircraft General Knowledge 1:00
09 - Navigation 1:00

[Whopity]

But in Canada there is only ONE Exam, 100 questions and 3 hours to complete it. You can study for the exam before you go so that you can get that out of the way when you arive. Link to the Transport Canada PPL Exam (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp12880-examinations-menu-102.htm)
I have taught a PPL student from scratch in 25 days.

[chevvron]

VERY few people pass at 45h sharp...

Back in the '70s when I did my UK PPL, you could do it in a minimum of 35 hours provided the school was approved by 'the ministry' (the CAA hadn't been 'invented' in those days).
I completed the syllabus after 31 hours and had to do 4 hours revision before I could take my GFT.

[abgd]

A few thoughts:

If you don't complete your PPL in Canada you won't be able to complete it here, as far as I'm aware. You'll probably have to go back at some point to 'mop up'.

For my PPL (Inverness), availability of examiners and weather for an extended cross country could have held up training significantly. It didn't, but it could have (and I'm sure that's true for anywhere within the UK).

I lived close to Inverness and did very little apart from learning to fly and revising for the exams for several weeks. If you're actually meant to be spending time with family (in-laws or your own?) then I'd be anxious about whether you can achieve both missions. If you can nip down to the airport whilst they're doing their day-jobs then it might work OK.

You will need some re-training to use UK airspace, and possibly before anybody will hire you out a plane. If you can afford to buy a permit type or share in such, and keep it close to Oxford, then do so.

[Whopity]

chevron
I completed the syllabus after 31 hours and had to do 4 hours revision before I could take my GFT. Actually you could have done the GFT and done the remaining hours afterwards. Nothing new about misinformation!

[Whopity]

If you don't complete your PPL in Canada you won't be able to complete it here But you could in a lot of other countries that are not affected by EU bureaucracy, where ICAO recomendations are followed.

[The Old Fat One]

I did do a flying course before whilst I was in the CCF Air Cadets. I flew about 10 hours and did a solo circuit, but I was 17 and silly/careless and lost the logbook

Sound like you did the ACPS with Tayside Aviation in Dundee. If so, you should be able to recover your hours if you speak nicely to them, because they keep and archive all the records (assuming they have not binned them all in advance of GDPR :{:{)

No idea if these hours are any use these days (I'm long-since retired)...they used to be.

[Whopity]

Any hours flown with an ICAO FI will count in the USA/Canada