'contact ground' and the hold line

[jason_beall]

Hi all,

I also posted this under the PPL forum, but I though there might be a controller or two who could aswer this for me...

I'm a US PPL flying recreationally here in the UK while on assignement. After landing at Aberdeen the other day, I was told to vacate right and contact ground. The taxiway I turned onto has a hold line about 100 metres down after turing off...considerably futher away from the runway than usual. I was chewed out by ATC because I didn't stop and contact ground after vacating even though I hadn't crossed the hold line!? Am I in the wrong or is the controller not practising proper procedure? I assumed, as in the US, you completely cross the hold line and then stop. This particular hold line as not painted in the right place in my opinion...it's too far off the runway and too near the parallel taxiway. I guess the contoller got nervous and was afraid I was going to get tangled up with a 737!

Thanks,

-Jason

[eyeinthesky]

I think you are correct. In order to be sure you have vacated the runway and its associated 'strip' (in its technical meaning), you must continue over the first hold line (i.e. the one at which you would hold if you were trying to ENTER the runway at that point). In Low Vis Procedures, you would have to continue past the CAT II hold (if it was different) to ensure you are outside the Localiser Sensitive Area. If you could get a call in to Ground before reaching the line, then so much the better.

If you watch the movements at Heathrow, for example, you will see that they vacate quickly and cross the CAT I hold and then stop if they haven't been given onward clearance. I think also they must ensure that the TAIL of the aircraft has crossed the line.

Sounds like either special procedures at ABZ or someone having a bad day. If they had wanted you to stop short of the hold line then the TWR should have told you before transferring you!!

[U R NumberOne]

Hi Jason,

I'm a controller at Aberdeen - and you are correct in that some of our holding points are a long way back from the main runway - largely due to the angles some of them intersect at - A4 on runway 32 is a particularly good example. Can you remember which holding point it was - if it was W4 then you can quickly find yourself nose-on to other traffic making their way to W5 for a 16 departure, so we need to speak to you quickly to sort the situation out.

Generally speaking it's no big problem if you cross the hold line before calling Ground, provided you don't go too far through.

It's difficult to comment exactly not knowing all the facts, but perhaps more could have been done on our side - hope it hasn't put you off coming back again. ;)