Syndicates

[BigEndBob]

https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/606129-syndicate-size-caa-limit.html

This kills flying schools slowly.
Until the pilots want their license re-validating, i refuse to do them.
They can go elsewhere.
My services for club members only.

[TheOddOne]

Well, I take a different view.

Our Club offers flying training and aircraft hire to Club members in the Club-owned aircraft. When people get their licences, I suggest 3 courses of action to them
a) continue hiring the Club aircraft (as some long-standing members do anyway)
b) join one of the groups in the hangar
c) buy their own aircraft.

Each of the options has plus and minus points., though option c) isn't something I'd push someone into. For a new PPL, they might want the comfort blanket of flying the aircraft they did their training in until their confidence grows. Then I gently point them towards one of our groups around a C172. What we do insist on is everyone with an aircraft in the hangar has to be a Club member. I will then happily do their re-validations in their own aircraft and even help them out ferrying them for maintenance etc. I generally don't charge except for my actual flying time, the same as if I'm instructing. We're a very small community at our airfield due to our remote location so I think of myself as a binding force for all aviators rather than wanting to push people away. Then, when their friends want to learn to fly, I like to think they'll come to me. I'm also happy to train people in their own aircraft, subject to suitability. Protectionism never produces a prosperous economy.

TOO

[BigEndBob]

And another thing the CAA should ensure all flying schools are registered for VAT.

[anchorhold]

Bigendbob... I take a different view. Flying clubs are their for PPL and IMC (IR(IR(R) only, it is only normal for qualified PPL's if they have the means to buy their own aircraft or form a syndicate.

In my early days as an instructor, I did renewals on PPLs own aircraft and group aircraft, I never came across a syndicate with more than eight members.

The bottom line here is that as an instructor, why would you turn down the opportunity to revalidate someone on a Rockwell 114, Piper Turbo Arrow, it beats flying a Cessna.

To add I moved away from 'Flying Clubs' concentrating on training aircraft owners and flying groups, it is so much rewarding.

The issue of VAT is not an issue, it is clearly down to the HMRC and turnover.

[4Screwaircrew]

I pay club membership but fly a group owned aircraft, further I pay for a landing card so the school takes a reasonable sum of money from me each year, the CFI has no problems signing our revalidations at all.

[MrAverage]

I'm with you on the VAT issue B.O.B.

There are some very creative schools/clubs that are way over the threshold in reality.

[xrayalpha]

And what is the safety/educational benefit of being VAT registered?

[BigEndBob]

Well VAT goes into that big government pot that helps pay for services we seem to think we get free, SAR, Mil. radar, for instance or do you want to opt out of that.

[flystrathclyde]

And another thing the CAA should ensure all flying schools are registered for VAT.

I think it is virtually impossible to operate a flying school WITHOUT it requiring to be registered for VAT.

With aircraft needing to fly around 300 hours per year to be financially viable, along with the average prices being charged, a school with a 'single' aircraft will be approaching the current £85k threshold. A 2nd aircraft almost certainly pushes the operation way past the limit.

I am not aware of any 'schools' operating a single aircraft.......

But I am well aware of ones not registered for VAT!

It creates an uneven playing field.