Where will NATS send me?

[Cornish Expat]

I’m considering applying to NATS but want to know how much control of my destiny I have when it comes to where I’m going to be working. I understand most people are going to end up at Swanwick and that aptitude and commercial nesscessity plays its part, but if I wanted to go to Prestwick or even to an Aerodrome how likely is that?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[tukachinchilla]

With my course that started last year we got told beforehand we were doing aerodrome, there did not seem to be an option to choose for area. We are not told where we are posted until after passing the college, although we did get to send in preferences. Rumours are some of us will be posted to Heathrow, Bristol, Aberdeen and Aberporth.

In short, you can end up anywhere in the UK and it seems you will have little influence on it.

[chevvron]

Only airport in Scotland with a NATS contract is Glasgow, Preswick is a control centre.
You can state your preference but as you realise, they send you wherever you're needed; they will also decide if you are more suited to an aerodrome or to a control centre; you don't do courses for both disciplines.

[Standard Noise]

Is Glasgow our only Scottish airport unit now? Blimey, I’ve only been off for three days and it seems we’ve lost one. How about that!?

[italiancars]

Aberdeen is NATS. Wasn’t lost in those three days.

[Standard Noise]

Chevvron had me worried (not).

[The Many Tentacles]

Is Glasgow our only Scottish airport unit now? Blimey, I’ve only been off for three days and it seems we’ve lost one. How about that!?

You can usually find them down the back of the sofa, or in a real crisis behind the fridge.

To answer the questions, you'll go where the company need you. You can put a preference in, but ultimately you'll go where the business needs you. In terms of area control, it's Swanwick or Prestwick with limited ability for movement. Tower or Approach will give you the option of anywhere they have the contract at the moment, but again.....

[chevvron]

Chevvron had me worried (not).

Yes I was wondering who would spot that first Pike.
Didn't know NATS had gained an airport in Wales though (Aberporth/West Wales according to Turkchinchilla) . I think NATS still operates the radar unit about a mile away from the airport but I'm not sure if it's an Approach Radar unit now; always used to be Area Radar.
Course it didn't matter in my day, when we graduated we all had Aerodrome, Approach and Area ratings along with the radar ratings.

[Red Dragon]

Way back when, it was the same.

They gave me a list of available units.
"Where would you like to go?" they asked me.
I told them.
"Where don't you want to go?" they asked.
"Definitely not Scotland" I said.
I got Edinburgh.

[The Fat Controller]

The answer is, wherever they need you most.

If you do get posted to Scotland, thanks to the SNP and Greens you will be paying more tax than a colleague elsewhere.

[tukachinchilla]

Yes I was wondering who would spot that first Pike.
Didn't know NATS had gained an airport in Wales though (Aberporth/West Wales according to Turkchinchilla) . I think NATS still operates the radar unit about a mile away from the airport but I'm not sure if it's an Approach Radar unit now; always used to be Area Radar.
Course it didn't matter in my day, when we graduated we all had Aerodrome, Approach and Area ratings along with the radar ratings.

Could be it's an area radar posting, not sure how reliable the rumours are.

[TCAS FAN]

No airport gain for NATS in Wales.

West Wales Airport (nee Aberporth) have their own APS Unit, providing surveillance services in the surrounding Danger Areas in order to fly Unmanned Aircraft Systems from West Wales Airport.

NATS provide a surveillance service (akin to an Area Radar Service) from MOD Aberporth under contract to QinetiQ, a mile or two up the road from the Airport offering a service to Unmanned Aircraft Systems and other things that need to be contained within Danger Areas over Cardigan Bay.

Due to the specialised nature of the NATS service provision, and its very low level of operations, doubt that it would be an initial posting for a new recruit.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

If you're familiar with the Harry Potter series, then its not dissimilar to the sorting hat...

[chevvron]

West Wales Airport (nee Aberporth) have their own APS Unit, providing surveillance services in the surrounding Danger Areas in order to fly Unmanned Aircraft Systems from West Wales Airport.

NATS provide a surveillance service (akin to an Area Radar Service) from MOD Aberporth under contract to QinetiQ, a mile or two up the road from the Airport offering a service to Unmanned Aircraft Systems and other things that need to be contained within Danger Areas over Cardigan Bay.

Due to the specialised nature of the NATS service provision, and its very low level of operations, doubt that it would be an initial posting for a new recruit.

West Wales airport is operated by FISOs and as far as I'm aware, FISOs cannot provide APS.

[AyrTC]

Chevvron
Here is some info on West Wales Radar

West Wales Radar goes on line - West Wales Airport Aberporth (http://www.flyuav.co.uk/west-wales-radar-goes-on-line/)

[chevvron]

Chevvron
Here is some info on West Wales Radar

West Wales Radar goes on line - West Wales Airport Aberporth (http://www.flyuav.co.uk/west-wales-radar-goes-on-line/)

Well you live and learn, but still not a NATS operation so unlikely to be a 'final posting' for a NATS ATCO.
How does this interface with Aberporth radar operated from the range head on the coast by NATS controllers from Cardiff? Or does it replace it?
Seems a bit silly having 2 radar units operating on similar tasks in the same area.

[ex-EGLL]

Sounds like things haven't changed much. Back in the mid 70's asked where do want to go, Southern England says I, Aberdeen says they! Struck a deal, 3 years at EGAA then my choice of posting. Finished up in Heathrow

[Talkdownman]

I bet you haven't ever gone on leave only to find on your return that you had been posted during your absence. I have! Needless to say I was a bit late reporting at my new permanent duty station. But, hey, that's Nats for you...

[kcockayne]

Sounds like things haven't changed much. Back in the mid 70's asked where do want to go, Southern England says I, Aberdeen says they! Struck a deal, 3 years at EGAA then my choice of posting. Finished up in Heathrow

Well, Barry, that must have been why I got posted (from the same course) to Aberdeen ! Mind you, I did request it. Or, perhaps Mick Baker inherited your original posting. Anyway, I got away with only 2 years there.

[ex-EGLL]

I think I got the better end of the deal there Keith, especially as they posted Lyn with me to both Belfast and Heathrow!!

[Request Orbit]

Well you live and learn, but still not a NATS operation so unlikely to be a 'final posting' for a NATS ATCO.

An ab-initio was posted to Aberporth about 3 years ago, it depends on your definition of "final" I suppose but he went there straight from the college and has been there ever since.

[alfaman]

An ab-initio was posted to Aberporth about 3 years ago, it depends on your definition of "final" I suppose but he went there straight from the college and has been there ever since. It's a bit longer than that, 2012/13 & he's moved elsewhere now; prior to that, 2001/02 was the last time, he's also moved on since, just took considerably longer...

[chevvron]

An ab-initio was posted to Aberporth about 3 years ago, it depends on your definition of "final" I suppose but he went there straight from the college and has been there ever since.

Yeah but was that Aberporth Range or the airfield?

[sambatc]

It's a bit longer than that, 2012/13 & he's moved elsewhere now; prior to that, 2001/02 was the last time, he's also moved on since, just took considerably longer...

Definitely wasn't 2012 as his basic course didn't start till May 2013...

[TCAS FAN]

Yeah but was that Aberporth Range or the airfield?

Definitely not the airfield, rather than waste money on ATCOs sitting around doing nothing for long periods of time (as frequently happens due to unsuitable weather conditions) they embraced the TC concept and remoted the radar and comms to Newquay, who provide ATCOs as/when needed. Win win for both West Wales and Newquay.

[chevvron]

Definitely not the airfield, rather than waste money on ATCOs sitting around doing nothing for long periods of time (as frequently happens due to unsuitable weather conditions) they embraced the TC concept and remoted the radar and comms to Newquay, who provide ATCOs as/when needed. Win win for both West Wales and Newquay.

Still not a NATS contract though.

[Eric T Cartman]

If you think NATS HR is bad, how about this ? My old boss at EGGP was on one of the very early Cadet Courses (3?) in the 60's. He wanted to go to Ulster Radar but they said no, you're all going to LATCC. He promptly resigned & got a job with IAL, ostensibly in the Gulf. Turned up at Heathrow on the day & was given his ticket except it was for Rhodesia. Phoned personnel - "oh, sorry, did no-one tell you?" - so off he went to Africa !. He eventually made it to Bahrain :-)

[welkyboy]

They’ll post you to the furthest airfield from where you live!!

[Talkdownman]

They’ll post you to the furthest airfield from where you live!!
...and keep on posting you further and further away at your own expense by moving the 'reasonable daily travelling distance' goalposts...I left in the end, and went to work for another ANSP nearer to home, it got beyond a joke!

[alfaman]

Definitely wasn't 2012 as his basic course didn't start till May 2013...
Ah, apologies, I was thinking of his predecessor: if he's looking for greener pastures now, perhaps there's another vacancy...

[Will_McKenzie]

If NATS decide you are destined for a Tower only unit ie Heathrow, London City, Luton or Stansted do you only get an ADI rating or are the postings not decided until you have completed ADI and APS courses?

It used to be that you only did the ADI course and a mini radar introduction course to go to a London airport. That being said, I recall a few people who went on that mini course only to be posted to Aberdeen & Cardiff (ADI only).
More recently it has been said that others have been posted as ADI only to dual rated units and then sent on an APS course (not at CTC) at a later date!

[terrain safe]

Given the state of NATS management these days the only answer is "Round the Bend".

[Talkdownman]

these days
Do you mean since privatisation...?

[chevvron]

More recently it has been said that others have been posted as ADI only to dual rated units and then sent on an APS course (not at CTC) at a later date!
That happened to several at Farnborough but they were usually ones who had failed on Area Radar.

[Will_McKenzie]

That happened to several at Farnborough but they were usually ones who had failed on Area Radar.

These are Ab-initio ATCOs who are being posted directly from the college to dual rated units with only an ADI rating. No failing involved and then keeping a competitor in business by sending the ATCOs on their APS courses with them!

[chevvron]

These are Ab-initio ATCOs who are being posted directly from the college to dual rated units with only an ADI rating. No failing involved and then keeping a competitor in business by sending the ATCOs on their APS courses with them!
I'm talking about before 2008; there were definitely controllers posted to Farnborough who had failed training at Swanwick LACC and rather than waste the money spent training them they were 're-streamed' to aerodrome and sent on an APS course after they had achieved C of C in the tower.

[alfaman]

Looks like a great spread to me - I've seen far worse. So you expect the manager tasked with telling you to be in two places at once? He took the time to personally deliver the message, rather than stick it in the post, & you take out for a meal & that's wrong? I don't know what the "presecco" (or do you mean Prosecco?) quote means, NATS has a clear policy on alcohol in the workplace, there's none at Whiteley or Southampton if you prefer.

You also missed one: someone got a posting 1300 miles from their training base, but they're not whinging - would you prefer that? Your "adjustment time" was when you signed the contract. What happened to...
"NATS will send you wherever they want. You will have no personal control of your destiny. NATS decide if you are going to be selected for Aerodrome or Area ( probably at a toss of a coin! ), and their commercial necessity will determine your posting.
It’s all part of the fun"

[chevvron]

The RAF have always done a similar thing when their courses pass out. I've watched the scramble at Shawbury when the notice is posted on the notice board on the last day showing who has passed and where they're going and who has failed/will be re-coursed etc.

[2 sheds]

Chevvron - what the military may or may not have done does not detract from Cheesefootball's justified gripe about the manner in which it was done - very inconsiderate.

2 s

[AyrTC]

Postings have always been an emotive subject. I can see why NATS don’t issue them until the last minute. Historically some people have jumped ship at the end of training, I had one on my course. Bonding may have reduced this slightly however £36,000 is nothing for a rival ANSP to pay to poach a TATC.

I have been retired for several years, some things never change. Some things have. The structure of the cadetship I was on was vastly different from the courses of today.

Three weeks into our “Tech course” which was similar to the present Basic course ( only harder ):p the class of twenty plus students were given a letter by hand not only giving you your posting but also what discipline you had been selected for.

There were some gasps of joy, some groans of dismay and the odd swear word.

I did not get the discipline or posting I wanted however it was not the end of the world.

I would have hated to receive such a letter in a public place. I personally think it would be better if NATS told the GATS students their posting in the classroom to let the news sink in.

NATS could still have a company night out and they may find the students more settled and they would ask reasonable questions and be more relaxed.

As has been mentioned before, the actual postings are something you have to accept, it is the luck of the draw.

NATS could possibly soften the blow slightly.

Rgds
AyrTC

[tukachinchilla]

You also missed one: someone got a posting 1300 miles from their training base, but they're not whinging - would you prefer that?

Oh and the person who was posted 1300 miles away from their training base did they know beforehand that they were going to be sent to Gib ( I presume ) or was it a complete surprise to them?

From what I have heard, the person posted to Gibraltar either volunteered or agreed to it before finishing the course.

[alfaman]

I am not whinging about the postings, I am whinging about the manner in which they were delivered. A NATS representative could have easily visited Global and told them in the relatively private classroom environment because no matter what you have signed it can still take a minute or two adjust to where you are going to spend your career. It is also very poor that the TATC’s only find out at the end of the course so they have got to scrabble about at short notice to find rented accommodation.
Thank you for correcting my spelling of Prosecco ( that was the really important part of the post ), the statement was reference to NATS sending a representative for a possible jolly ( in fact they sent more than one ) meal etc which is fair enough however at least give the students the chance of adjusting to a major change in their life and then take them out later to celebrate/ drown their sorrows.

And just for the record in the dim and distant past I did not get my original choice of posting :-)

Oh and the person who was posted 1300 miles away from their training base did they know beforehand that they were going to be sent to Gib ( I presume ) or was it a complete surprise to them?
I'm afraid it is about the posting: I doubt very much that those who got what they'd hoped for are complaining. So it's not you that's "suffering" then? It's someone else who's been offered a career with one of the most respected ANSPs, with great pay & benefits, subject to them passing their final check exams? The only flaw, not at the destination they'd set their heart on. This, in spite of clearly & regularly being advised, & signing to that effect, that there's no guaranteed postings, & also told, it's a mobile contract, you can move or be moved, that's the business. That's not the case for many of those outside the larger ANSPs, it's application after application, trying to find somewhere to fit, & moving around the country to make it work - and this after paying for their training, not having it paid for them.

The two NATS managers (not"representatives") are the people responsible for their training, & who they report to: they made the effort to drive a 200 mile + round trip, in their own time, to take the course for a meal to pass on the news - rather than by post or email & that's a jolly is it? Sounds more like dedication to doing the best they can to me; certainly knowing the people involved, they don't enjoy giving uncomfortable news. How do you know they didn't ask for quieter facilities, & that simply wasn't available for reasons beyond their control? You think people go out of their way to make life difficult? Hardly, life's difficult enough as it is.

Of course people find out their posting at the end of the course - how else do you propose to balance the business need with unit requirements & personal desires, when there's no guarantee how many people there'll be until they've passed all their assessments? If there was a better system, they'd be using it. The units don't want "maybes", they want someone with a student licence, ready for unit training.

No, the person going to Gibraltar didn't know he was going there until he read his posting letter. To be posted outside the UK, he has to be comfortable with the decision, & can decline it, the NATS union agreements are clear about that. However, he'd have no say over any alternative option, he'd be back in the pot with everyone else. He may not have been the only one to say he'd be happy if the option was there, either; so it's quite possible someone else didn't get Gib, when they wanted it, too.

If people don't want to take the risk of being posted somewhere they don't like, then there are other options available to them. Most people are just happy with the immense sense of relief that they've passed that hurdle & are onto the next phase of their career.

[chevvron]

On my ATCO Cadet Course (graduating in 1974) the Course Manager, 'Mike' Hunt (try saying that quickly when you're p1ssed) sat down with each of us individually during our final course at the college (about 9 months before graduation) and discussed where we would like to go. I had already expressed a preference for Area Radar but he asked how I would feel if sent to Farnborough. A friend from my old ATC Squadron was already there and had told me about it so I said yes. He then said I could go to Heathrow if I wanted and I was tempted but I stuck to my guns and spent 34 years at Farnborough.

[off watch]

Cheesefootball - you've listed 14 postings. Do you know how many started the course ?

[Standard Noise]

If I had my time at the College again and was offered Gib, I'd take it. When I was kicked out in 95, I'd have taken it.
Sadly now, I'm too long in the tooth and married to a woman who wants my next job to be in Palma. Like there's a cat in hell's chance!

[chevvron]

If I had my time at the College again and was offered Gib, I'd take it. When I was kicked out in 95, I'd have taken it.
Sadly now, I'm too long in the tooth and married to a woman who wants my next job to be in Palma. Like there's a cat in hell's chance!

All you've gotta do is learn Level 4 Spanish.

[atcsstudent]

All you've gotta do is learn Level 4 Spanish.

And earn 4.000€/month, 5 on 3 off, but from may to september most of shifts 6 on 2 off. But don't worry, after 15 years you'll get to earn 4.700€/month

[Standard Noise]

And earn 4.000€/month, 5 on 3 off, but from may to september most of shifts 6 on 2 off. But don't worry, after 15 years you'll get to earn 4.700€/month

In 15 years time I'll be retired and hopefully living out there anyway, might as well stay here for now and earn enough to pay for it.
Oh, and get my Spanish up to scratch!

[Cornish Expat]

Thanks for the info, so it seems like the first posting would be at NATS discretion; what then are the chances of moving within the company at a later date? I’m keen to remain an air traffic controller after leaving the military but my wife is desperate to live in Scotland so NATS is an easier sell if there’s a possibility of moving in a few years.

[Glamdring]

Have you considered applying to ANS Edinburgh?

[AyrTC]

Or how about HIAL?

[Cornish Expat]

Thanks for the steer. I’m preparing a CV and cover letter for ANS, closing date is end of October and I’m watching and waiting for HIAL to advertise again, but they recruited for 5 ab initio controllers in May and don’t know when they will next recruit. I’d like to keep NATS as a backup (they seem to be continually recruiting) so I don’t have to give up on air traffic control, but if there’s no way of getting to Scotland with them then it’s perhaps not worth investing the time and effort into applying.