Motor Sich AN12s to Doncaster

[Midland 331]

Folks,

Delighted at hearing an AN12 grumbling over Durham/North Yorkshire around 0300 the other morning, en route Gothenburg-Doncaster.

I notice another one this morning, this time out of Malmo, once again heading for "Bawtry International" :-)

Anyone have an idea what the reason is? I suspected some kind of car production line supply issue either in Sweden or the UK(Volvo? SKF? Gothenburg?).

[treadigraph]

Had one grumble eastbound over Croydon this morning - heard but not seen due to the clag. Unfortunate reg: UR-CNT.

Heard a very deep drone yesterday morning and was delighted to see that my ears' diagnosis of "German Air Force Transall" was correct - it went into St Mawgan for some reason or other.

[jensdad]

I heard the An-12 rumbling over here and then followed it on FR24; for some unknown reason it flew in roughly a straight line from Gothenburg to Newcastle and then made a >90degree turn down towards Finningley. Strange routing at the busiest of times, even more so at that quiet time of the morning.

[Midland 331]

That's the one. I had the same thought about the abrupt turn overhead Newcastle. Not as if there were any traffic conflicts at stupid o'clock.

Even in descent the engines made a pleasurable sound. An occasional benefit of fiftysomething virus-driven insomnia.

[DaveReidUK]

I heard the An-12 rumbling over here and then followed it on FR24; for some unknown reason it flew in roughly a straight line from Gothenburg to Newcastle and then made a >90degree turn down towards Finningley. Strange routing at the busiest of times, even more so at that quiet time of the morning.

Sounds more like a FR24 issue than an actual routing. What and when was the flight ?

[Midland 331]

Nope. I'm familiar with FR24's foibles.

Around 0300 on 19th, IIRC.

[jensdad]

Hi Dave,
Must admit, I would have thought that as well - it does sound dubious I know - but I heard it droning overhead and went on FR24 to see what it was. Flight number was M96550 / MSI6550. Reg is UR-11316
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ur-11316#fe31178

[Midland 331]

That's today's.

The early morning one routed more or less the same way.

It was if they only had basic navaids, and used the NEW VOR. But it doesn't exist these days.

[DaveReidUK]

Nope. I'm familiar with FR24's foibles.

Around 0300 on 19th, IIRC.

Thanks.

I see what you mean - it does look like a deliberately flown track, rather than one of those instantaneous 90° changes in direction that FR24 seems to be fond of. :O

[wiedehopf]

i know a certain An-12 that likes 90 degree turns on a much larger scale, see attachment.

And it's not the first time i've heard it on that track, i suspect they can't really provide direct service so they fly over their homebase and have another flight plan leaving their homebase.

[oldart]

Is this the same one that flew on a Northerly heading from Doncaster to Gothenburg at about 2100 hrs last Wednesday, it turned North Easterly between MME and NEW. You cannot mistake those engines, even at FL 250 it made the inside of the house quite noisy.

[Midland 331]

Quite possibly. I wonder why it doesn't route via Ottringham? Mischievous thought:- maybe they want to keep the over-water bit as short as possible?

[jensdad]

That thought crossed my mind as well, BD331. The conspiracy theorist in me is thinking that if we were still in the throes of the Cold War they'd be having a look at the military bases in the Vale of York (I have heard stories of Aeroflot aircraft taking detours over sensitive sites back in the 70s and 80s) but those days are gone now.

[jensdad]

Just looked at the track it took between Doncaster and Malmo yesterday afternoon - a straightish line from DSA to MMX would have taken it just North of the Dutch and German coasts, within easy reach of Den Helder, Groningen, Sylt etc, but instead it took a northerly route and then out over the middle of the North Sea, actually making a dogleg northwards away from the nearest coastlines. Strange goings-on. It does make me wonder if wiedehopf has it and there are strange flight planning techniques here. I'm not an expert on such things so can't comment...
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ur-11316#fe6cb4e

[Midland 331]

It was a clear night, and the route took them close to the Leeming, Topcliffe and Linton overheads.

[Charley]

Blimey, I know this is the spotters forum but you seem to enjoy a consipiracy theory... ;) :ok:

One might suggest that the routing isn't down to any of the above reasons. It's more likely that the crew are simply flying in the airways system and as strange as it may seem, this is the best airways routing in and out of Doncaster for them.

Being from the Ukraine, they probably don't want to leave the airways system or the protection offered by controlled airspace any more than I would if I was over the Ukraine or Russia. As non-native English speakers, their passable standard of English will make it far more comfortable and predicatable for them in terms of the instructions they're likely to receive, the stations/frequencies they'll expect to talk to and the seperation they will receive from the controllers against other traffic.

It is not possible to leave Doncaster and fly immediately to the east without leaving the confines of controlled airspace. At that point they will be in the 'Open FIR' where they will not necessarily be separated from other traffic by controllers, in addition to them being less sure of whom to talk to and what service they might receive. So flying direct to destination is not a practical option for them or most other commercial traffic. Similarly, routing via Otringham is not gainful.

For a better indication, open www.skyvector.com and find Doncaster. Use the map controls at the top right to choose 'World Lo' and 'World Hi' - these will show you the low-level and high-level airways respectively.

I'd suggest they left Doncaster on the noise preferential departure to UPTON, whereby they joined the Y250 low airway going past Leeds to GASKO, then the P18 airway to NATEB near Newcastle. Thereafter, it looks like P18 to CUTEL and then L983 to PETIL to the boundary of British and Danish airspace.

Hope this helps to illuminate the routing issues and the reasons for what might otherwise seem odd routings. :)

[Midland 331]

I'm really not one for conspiracy theories, but with Ivan's current odd behaviour, nothing would surprise me.

We did the same in the cold war on trawlers out of Hull and "fisheries research" vessels in The Baltic, one notably crewed by an Oxbridge graduate with fluent Russian. Not a chap you'd expect to find bobbing up and down in sub-zero temperatures for the fun of it. He was the late Gordon Clough, news journalist with the BBC.

I recall talking to Capt Pyetan, a Dan Air 748 captain, Ian Lawrie, later of BMA, (but who served his time lugging freight on light twins at silly-o'clock), and they both revelled in the outrageously direct routings available for freighters in the middle of the night.

Hence, to see one stick to such a standard route at 0300 seemed strange.

[Liffy 1M]

Motor Sich is a Ukrainian company, not Russian, btw.

[Midland 331]

A mere detail. This is a consortium of Johnny Foreigner Chappies doing reccies in the middle of the night with a view to sabotaging The Hawes Creamery, I'm sure.

[Midland 331]

More An12 Doncaster strangeness tonight.

Cavok Air (great name!) UR-KDM, GOT-DSA, coasts in at Tees Mouth heading south west, then abruptly turns onto south close to RAF Leeming. Why not a direct track to OTR?

A nice propliner"rumble", though!

[jensdad]

Very, very strange. The straight line from Gothenburg to County Durham followed by a 90 degree turn South could possibly be explained by a desire to shorten the over water stretch, given the lack of airfields on the East Coast between Teesside and Humberside, but even then I'm doubtful as a southerly route off the coasts of Germany and Netherlands would give more diversion possibilities. However, this routing taken by the same aircraft from Eindhoven to Finningley on 2nd Jan seems to be over water for as long as humanly possible.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ur-kdm#1002e5d2

[Harry Wayfarers]

I used to fly on Motor Sich An24's & An140 in/out OZH many a year ago, Motor Sich were banned from the EU at the time ... How times change!

[AircraftOperations]

Due to the relatively low cruise level flown by the An-12s, might they be having to avoid the military training areas in the North Sea by routing round them on UK-Scandinavia (& vv) missions?

[Midland 331]

That's an interesting possibility. The are usually at around FL220 (but sound much lower.. :-) )

We've had another couple over, to and from Doncaster very recently, and they've been exhibiting the same behaviour, that is, what appear to be routings via specific points, rather than a direct track. An outbound on Tuesday night headed almost due north before turning due east abeam Newcastle. Most odd to watch!

[Mike Tee]

I wasn't aware of this thread so I was puzzled on Tuesday evening (9th Jan) when I heard a very loud Prop Jet at 22.15. I even ventured outside but couldn't see anything but the noise was very different to the usual ATP of West Atlantic which usually passes overhead on the Aberdeen / East Midlands run around this time. A quick look at Flight Radar 24 showed it to be an AN12-B of Cavok routing Doncaster / Malmo. As reported previously the routing was rather strange, heading more or less due north from Doncaster before a right turn over Teesside. Altitude when crossing the coast was 23,500.
Another one following the same route yesterday evening, over Ingleby Barwick at 18.20 then coasted out over Hartlepool, eventually climbing to 27,000 ft. Do any of our Doncaster Spotters have any info on what the cargo is ?.
Up-Date. Apparently they are moving automotive parts, don't know yet if they are being moved to or from Doncaster, come on "Donny Spotters", help us out here !!.