Virgin Atlantic

[Chidken Sangwich]

Looking at taking up to 50 ex MON bus drivers to cover A330 crew shortages.

Good lads!

[Mr A Tis]

Sorry, I cannot find via a search a VS thread already on here. Maybe I have missed this information elsewhere?
Can anyone shed any more light on the 4 leased in A330-200s Virgin are taking on board to be based at MAN March to May 2018 ? Thus releasing their own A330-300s to cover the broken 787s at LHR.
Are they Air Berlin machines & who is going to crew them ?
Also, what is the story with the 787s ? How many are grounded and is it really going to take months to fix them?

[cheesebag]

Due to an issue with supply of RR engines for the 789 apparently. I've also heard that they will be ex Berlin 332's with no PE seats sold

[22/04]

Two 787s on the ground at present. A332s will be crewed by Virgin crews AFAIK

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I am hearing these leases are for up to 4 years.

[gilesdavies]

Will these get the VS treatment, and have the same cabins installed, as the rest of the fleet installed?

If the aircraft are being kept for four years, I would hope so!

If not, this is a bit of a two fingers up to Manchester passengers (if this where they are bound), if they can't offer the same hard product as the rest of their fleet, which many passengers will be expecting.

What was Air Berlin's old hard product like on these aircraft, before they vanished? I have only used them within Europe and their product was pretty basic and similar to most LCC in Europe... So Im imagining their long haul product was similar too and will lack lay flat beds in business.

Also the A330-300's replacing the 787's while they are taken off line, will struggle to fly all 787 routes... For example, I doubt A330-300's will have the range to fly the routes like Hong Kong and LAX, maybe the ex-AB A330-200's would be better as the replacement aircraft, having the longer range and should be able to fly even the longer sectors...

[Una Due Tfc]

I’m not sure if the VS A333s are the bees knees 251T MTOW variants, but they are at least the 247T variants, which can comfortably do UK-US west coast. VS have already recently taken at least 1 A346 out of storage for the ULR routes.

Even the earliest A332 could do Europe-West Coast USA

[Wycombe]

I’m not sure if the VS A333s are the bees knees 251T MTOW variants

I believe a couple of them are. Not sure of Reg's, but they are used on the likes of MAN-SFO I think.

VS have already recently taken at least 1 A346 out of storage for the ULR routes.

One of them (I think VNAP?) was on a test flight over SW UK yesterday, out or Lourdes IIRC

I see there is now also a thread running (R&N) concerning some turnbacks and groundings for Air NZ on RR-powered 789's.

[SWBKCB]

ex Air Berlin A.330 registered G-VMIK to KDAC AIRCRAFT HOLDING LTD, DUBLIN.

[DaveReidUK]

Notwithstanding the reg, are we sure that's intended for Virgin and not the breaker's?

It's ten years older than all the other VS A330s, and it has PW engines.

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

I suppose if VS are looking for a MAN specific sub fleet, presumably as a stop gap until the B789 issues are resolved and A35K is online, the age of the aircraft is less of an issue?

I assume the A332 will be at MAN for 4-5 years; with the A333's returning firstly to replace the B744 (I assume VS will not actually use these to replace the beach fleet) and then the A332s...

[SWBKCB]

So, could be somebody taking the... :ok:

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I can confirm that G-VMIK is one of the four aircraft which Virgin is going to lease. :ok:

[SealinkBF]

The 787 issue seems quite serious, to this SLF.

They are talking about adding Premium Economy seats at some point in 2018, which, for a leased fleet, for a short term-ish issue, seems quite permanent!

[DaveReidUK]

Confirmed by Reuters a couple of days ago:

Virgin Atlantic plans to lease up to four A330-200s for at least 12 months from March 2018 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/brief-virgin-atlantic-plans-to-lease-up/brief-virgin-atlantic-plans-to-lease-up-to-four-a330-200s-for-at-least-12-months-from-march-2018-idUKL9N1IW02C)

though note the "up to four".

[116d]

I suppose if VS are looking for a MAN specific sub fleet, presumably as a stop gap until the B789 issues are resolved and A35K is online, the age of the aircraft is less of an issue?

I assume the A332 will be at MAN for 4-5 years; with the A333's returning firstly to replace the B744 (I assume VS will not actually use these to replace the beach fleet) and then the A332s...

I assume availability of these and the need for extra aircraft as cover played a big part over other factors such as engine commonality and age (providing the overall condition and hours/cycles are OK). Note how Thomas Cook are going for some ex-Monarch A321's and they're also of a different engine type to their "native" fleet.

[Fairdealfrank]

https://www.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/destinations/caribbean/barbados.html


suspect that VS could be onto a winner here!

[canberra97]

P&O Cruises has a large amount of seats blocked with VS on LHR to BGI giving their passengers a scheduled option out of LHR for the first time in addition to their fly cruise options from LGW and other regional airports using TUI.

I believe this is one of the reasons why VS LHR to BGI is now available in addition to the LGW flights.

VS have some spare slots at LHR and BGI is an excellent addition and with the commitment from P&O Cruises new route will be successful.

[Fairdealfrank]

Slot sitter? surely not! Seriously there are no West Indies routes ex-LHR except NAS and GCM. For those of us west of London this is a brilliant addition.

[canberra97]

I don't think either myself or anyone else has mentioned that it is a slot sitter!

It's only twice a week during the winter season so plenty of odd slots available with VS at LHR so the new BGI route is not necessarily a slot sitter especially with the P&O Cruises commitment behind it which I believe is working well plus it taps into wealthy west London and M4 corridor catchment.

[virginblue]

Any idea how the A332 will be crewed? Ex Monarch drivers, AB pilots or internally?

[22/04]

AFAIK it will be all VS employees - probably integrated with all A330 crews as they have taken on others as well as the Monarch people- I know of one BA captain who has joined.

[MaverickPrime]

I see a Virgin Atlantic A346 on flight radar Manila to London. Reg G-VNAP. I presume it’s had heavy maintenance at Lufthansa Technik in Manila. Anyone know why it’s been pulled out of storage?

[Scottie Dog]

VS has brought various A340s back into service whilst the B787 fleet is grounded due to engine problems.

[MaverickPrime]

Ah cheers. Wasn’t even aware of the engine problems of the 787!

[Rutan16]

RR Trent engine fan blade issue. World dotting with down and out 789s at the moment.

[canberra97]

The RR Trent engine flan blade issue problem has been well reported and discussed not only on Pprune but on other aviation websites and has been ongoing for the last year so it's not something that has just occurred and involves various airlines other than Virgin Atlantic.

[inOban]

How long is this issue likely to last?

[canberra97]

I should imagine until all the engines on all the affected aircraft are rectified and that doesn't just include VS, I'm not sure how many aircraft are having to have the respective work done but there are some airlines that have already had all theirs replaced as I think it all started with the ANA B788's.

[SealinkBF]

VS are talking about adding PE seats to the ex Air Berlin aircraft. That strikes me as pretty long term.

[Skipness One Echo]

The engine issues are short term, the A332s are medium term resizing the MAN base. One A346 has been brought back back, G-VNAP currently at Hangar 7 at Gatters in all white scheme. Did they take out all the seats and fittings at end of lease I wonder?

[SealinkBF]

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlines/special-airbus-planes-coming-to-virgin-atlantic-fleet.html

[Mr @ Spotty M]

As l reported earlier they are on 4 year leases. :ok:

[CabinCrewe]

Looks like the 'short term' AB Airbuses will have yet another unique internal seating arrangement and a different engine type to current own A330s. Presumably the logistical issues associated with both those are outweighed by a quick sourced relatively cheap expansion. The repaint job video of one of the old AB aircraft was nice to watch.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/virgin-atlantic-to-fly-old-air-berlin-planes-love-suite/

[KelvinD]

I see G-VNAP is now back in service. I watched it arrive at LHR today and I was wondering why it has "a big virgin atlantic thank you" in large letters running the length of the fuselage? Thank you for what?

[Logohu]

Maybe it's a thank you to Rolls Royce for the 789 engine issues, which have given VNAP a temporary reprieve from the knackers yard

[KelvinD]

Logohu: Funnily enough, exactly the same thought occurred to me!

[DaveReidUK]

I was wondering why it has "a big virgin atlantic thank you" in large letters running the length of the fuselage? Thank you for what?

"The paint scheme salutes the work of the 9,000 people around the world who keep our operation running 24/7".

Sleeping Beauty Rejuvenated – welcoming back G-VNAP (https://blog.virginatlantic.com/sleeping-beauty-rejuvenated-welcoming-back-g-vnap/)

[KelvinD]

Many thanks Dave. Much appreciated.

[EZYMAN]

VS400/1 DXB moving to 787-900 from the winter schedule.

The A330-200s now in operation from MAN.

[SealinkBF]

Virgin also introducing 'Lite', hand baggage only fares from next month.
New Delight fare includes current extra legroom seats.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/virgin-atlantic-unbundles-economy-fares-446562/

[ETOPS]

Airbus have released their latest O & D spreadsheet - shows that Virgin have cancelled the order for six A380 aircraft.

Whilst I'm certain SRB was serious at the time it does seem to have taken a long time to drop this order and concentrate on something more practical - A350 being much more suited to the route structure.

Orders and deliveries (http://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html#viewer)

[PAXboy]

#AfriTravel: Virgin Atlantic announces second daily service beteween Joburg and London | Traveller24 (http://www.traveller24.com/News/Flights/afritravel-virgin-atlantic-announces-second-daily-service-beteween-joburg-and-london-20180316)

Sadly, another 787 to Joburg, not Cape Town.

[toledoashley]

PAXboy, It seems to directly replace the service dropped by SAA.

[pholling]

Airbus have released their latest O & D spreadsheet - shows that Virgin have cancelled the order for six A380 aircraft.

Whilst I'm certain SRB was serious at the time it does seem to have taken a long time to drop this order and concentrate on something more practical - A350 being much more suited to the route structure.

Orders and deliveries (http://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html#viewer)

My understanding is that Airbus were holding it until the alternative was confirmed. The firming of A350s forces them to officially process the cancellation.

[_aax1]

VS Dropping DXB on the 31st March 2019.

Can't say i'm too surprised with only one daily flight and EK's expansion at STN and QR's expansion at LGW taking some of EK's connection pax. Yields have most likely dropped significantly on the route. BI has also dropped it's LHR-DXB connection.

What do we think VS will do with this late evening slot? The new LAS flight is from one of the LAX slots and the morning extra BOS service is from a DL morning slot. Can't imagine what they will add?

Together with CUN ending at LGW, sad to see VS shrinking. CPT, BOM, YVR, DTW, ORD and HND have all ended in recent times.

[PAXboy]

Their new masters want them feeding the USA - nowhere else. They are Delta now.

[22/04]

Not quite true with JNB expanding. There were rumours about DEL true but that has quite a bit of USA via LHR traffic so hopefully not.

[PAXboy]

Well, One more to JNB but STILL leaving CPT wide open to BA? I'm sure they know best.

[22/04]

I think VS are too small to make seasonal routes work - lots of investment but poor returns off season.

[PANews]

My family I regularly used Virgin to fly south but when they abandoned Singapore we had to change airlines. A great pity then but BA, Cathay and Singapore have not complained.

Their 'tiny' service on such a thick middle east route was probably always doomed.

[BA318]

My family I regularly used Virgin to fly south but when they abandoned Singapore we had to change airlines. A great pity then but BA, Cathay and Singapore have not complained.

Their 'tiny' service on such a thick middle east route was probably always doomed.

VS never served Singapore as far as I'm aware. They were 49% owned by SIA so they codeshared but never operated themselves.

[canberra97]

VS never served Singapore as far as I'm aware. They were 49% owned by SIA so they codeshared but never operated themselves.

Your 100% correct 👍

[PAXboy]

They made a point of breaking into the South African route and then to CPT. Whilst they were only seasonal, the route can certainly - now - take a full daily service. Just look at BA from LHR + LGW and also Thomas Cook from LGW (I think they are x3 a week to CPT but may be seasonal). Since SAA also gave up LHR-CPT, BA have the run of the place for directs.

[BHD2BFS]

With the success of BFS-MCO and it now operating all season
Is there any plans to increase again next year? Now with additional 330s a Vegas or NY route it would be a perfect size

[CabinCrewe]

Is a A330 a perfect size from BFS to eg NYC? Id say probably not. LAS was tried from GLA and quickly dropped.

[azz767]

G-VMNK came back from China last week and swapped with G-VWND, is this for the conversion into 3-class VS configuration?

Also anyone know why G-VLNM positioned to MSP on 20/11, was it for the same reason to get two re-done at once?

[Level bust]

G-VMNK came back from China last week and swapped with G-VWND, is this for the conversion into 3-class VS configuration?

Yes, it has come back with a 35 seat PE cabin. Don't know about NM though, the 'The VS Source' website just says it's gone for maintenence.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Has gone to Delta at MSP for a "C" check.

[comet 4b623PW]

According to routesonline MAN-ATL frequency to be increased to 5 weekly Boeing747 for winter season19/20 and MAN-JFK to go daily with Airbus A330-200 from late october 2019.

[TCAS FAN]

Mrs TCAS and I are heading west shortly courtesy of the A332, aka "Berlin Bomber", which hopefully will have a refitted cabin. Can anyone advise me whether there are baggage bins over the centre pairs of seats in Upper, ie 1E/F, 3E/F, 5E/F?

[rog747]

Mrs TCAS and I are heading west shortly courtesy of the A332, aka "Berlin Bomber", which hopefully will have a refitted cabin. Can anyone advise me whether there are baggage bins over the centre pairs of seats in Upper, ie 1E/F, 3E/F, 5E/F?

they were all supposed to be refitted by now -- edit All four planes are due for completion by the end of January.
and yes they have bins in upper - they look much nicer than the herringbone - the middle double seats are good for couples

[rog747]

They made a point of breaking into the South African route and then to CPT. Whilst they were only seasonal, the route can certainly - now - take a full daily service. Just look at BA from LHR + LGW and also Thomas Cook from LGW (I think they are x3 a week to CPT but may be seasonal). Since SAA also gave up LHR-CPT, BA have the run of the place for directs.

Virgin and CPT
(and JNB) sigh

Virgin for past 20 years have faffed around with SA for one reason or another - In-fact all of Africa. NBO too came and went a couple of times.
LHR - JNB was often a 747 and could have been a double daily flight from very early on as it was so popular - possible on most days of the week and likely all year round - same as BA and SAA, but VS never took it on until almost 20 years later.
Lagos could have been double daily too.

As for the LHR-CPT always seasonal with the aircraft then doing the then seasonal BOS in the Northern summer.
That was the plan BUT they stopped before Easter so they lost that high season share of holiday market to/from CPT.

At the time SAA still had their own year round direct 747 CPT flight and BA was double daily 747 in summer season and one a day in winter (777 some times) Now BA has 3 daily in season - the extra from LGW 777
KLM and LH was/is daily too (from AMS and FRA with also MUC in summer season - all popular with British flying in from UK regionals to connex along with AF now daily from CDG)

This was all before the influx to CPT of cheap fares on Emirates Qatar Turkish and Ethiopian etc via their hubs and plus Thomas Cook and Condor flying direct to CPT from UK and Germany. Now even folk book Rwandair and Air Namibia coz its cheap.

Virgin then stopped the CPT route but restarted it again some years later again not all year round but it was messy so passengers, tour companies and businessman did not know where they were with schedules etc sometimes it was daily then it wasn't.
Virgin was also a day flight for many years on the return to the UK and was not popular versus BA and SAA's night flights home bound.

I knew the VS staff well at CPT and JNB and they struggled with massive fraud and corruption in obtaining revenue due from Travel Agents for VS tickets sold in Africa
(Hello - Welcome to Africa)
So much so they spent the whole off season (with no CPT flights) trying to deal with the matter and get the money in. I think this had much to do with giving up the CPT route and maybe why JNB and Lagos have not increased schedules until recently.

NBO came and went - Cargo was great - but the A340-300 was a crap aircraft to use out of NBO for a midday departure being payload restricted too often.
BA KLM Kenya LH Swiss AF all operate daily or almost daily NBO but VS cannot make it work.

(Virgin also had this corruption problem in Greece with the early ATH flights - VS stopped flying and now the LON-ATH route is massive)

[TCAS FAN]

rog747
Thanks for responding. While I am sure that there are bins over the window seats, are there also bins over the three pairs of seats in the centre?

[rog747]

rog747
Thanks for responding. While I am sure that there are bins over the window seats, are there also bins over the three pairs of seats in the centre?
yes from the new photos of the refurbish there are centre bins

[TCAS FAN]

rog747

Cheers!

[CKT789]

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/virgin-atlantic-heathrow-tel-aviv-israel-new-flight-el-al-easyjet-wizz-air-a8772006.html

New flights announced to Tel Aviv starting in September.
Busy route.....

[scr1]

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/virgin-atlantic-heathrow-tel-aviv-israel-new-flight-el-al-easyjet-wizz-air-a8772006.html

New flights announced to Tel Aviv starting in September.
Busy route.....
excellent news

[PAXboy]

rog747 Thanks for the great run down about JNB + CPT. I often did the open jaws and did not mind the daylight return as the view of the Sahara never fails to delight.

I have lived in ZA and have family and friends there still, so do understand about the fraud problem BUT to leave this lucrative market to their arch enemy? Astonishing.

I agree that the 744s were always well populated and the 346s. As well as the carriers you mention, Condor and TCA have piled in. It has to be some of the strangest behaviour by an airline that I have seen.

[PDXCWL45]

rog747 Thanks for the great run down about JNB + CPT. I often did the open jaws and did not mind the daylight return as the view of the Sahara never fails to delight.

I have lived in ZA and have family and friends there still, so do understand about the fraud problem BUT to leave this lucrative market to their arch enemy? Astonishing.

I agree that the 744s were always well populated and the 346s. As well as the carriers you mention, Condor and TCA have piled in. It has to be some of the strangest behaviour by an airline that I have seen.
Maybe Virgin are able to make more money with the aircraft on a different route.

[rog747]

rog747 Thanks for the great run down about JNB + CPT. I often did the open jaws and did not mind the daylight return as the view of the Sahara never fails to delight.

I have lived in ZA and have family and friends there still, so do understand about the fraud problem BUT to leave this lucrative market to their arch enemy? Astonishing.

I agree that the 744s were always well populated and the 346s. As well as the carriers you mention, Condor and TCA have piled in. It has to be some of the strangest behaviour by an airline that I have seen.

No probs - you seem to know the RSA situation too - my UK pals have homes in Fresnaye and Clifton beach... They go like Swallows to the South with the coming of each Northern winter...

Cannot see VS going back to CPT -
That ship has sailed for VS long ago, despite the CPT flight arrivals board over this weekend looking like a summer Saturday at Ibiza !
With in bound wide bodies from KLM AF OS LH x 2 BA x 3 OS DE TCK Edelweiss (AMS CDG VIE FRA x 2 MUC VIE ZRH LHR x 2 LGW x 2)
Directs from IST with TK and big stuff from ME and African hubs, and Asia EK QR ET MK SQ CX KQ x 2 from NBO and VFA (a KLM connection)

As you know VS now double daily to JNB (could have told them 20 years ago to do that)
BA up to 3 a day to JNB - 2 x A380, (plus they now serve DUR again, and 3 daily to CPT, 2 are 747's)

Whilst poor old SAA now only now one A330 to JNB
Seems SAA leased the other LHR slot, with CPT slot sold years ago - how long will SAA last -
Germany flights to/from CPT are now operated only by LH on a code share.

Condor have been a solid operator to CPT from Germany for many years (along with LTU, the Germans love the winter sun) and now seasonally TCK UK have joined the fun and seem to be doing well with it.

[22/04]

That ship has sailed for VS long ago

Yes indeed. VS decided they really didn't want any seasonal routes ( misguided Brits go to Orlando in summer) - they cost more to promote and operate. The transatlantic and Delta feed are now the most important market. Am surprised by Tel Aviv though expect it will be okay- there is a lot of competition but the premium and Upper options may tempt those prepared to pay a bit more.

[rog747]

Yes indeed. VS decided they really didn't want any seasonal routes ( misguided Brits go to Orlando in summer) - they cost more to promote and operate. The transatlantic and Delta feed are now the most important market. Am surprised by Tel Aviv though expect it will be okay- there is a lot of competition but the premium and Upper options may tempt those prepared to pay a bit more.

Indeed - faffing around for 10 years with the seasonal CPT route - couple that with the fraud on ticket sales made within Africa saw no recovery.

I can understand doing TLV - The feed at LHR onto both VS and DL USA flights are what they are thinking of...

If LHR-ATH was still being flown, apart from a hugely busy route, there are plenty of Greeks wanting to transit to both USA and possibly JNB - Although DL do operate from ATH.

[CKT789]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-virginatlantic-m-a-airfranceklm-eu/eu-clears-air-france-klm-delta-virgin-group-deal-over-virgin-atlantic-idUSKCN1Q11YS

EU clears Virgin/Air France-KLM/Delta deal. All going on at VS just now.

[El Bunto]

EU clears Virgin/Air France-KLM/Delta deal. All going on at VS just now.

Well, all the best to them. As illustrated by rog747's post above Virgin are the ADHD teenager of the airline world, perhaps this new alignment with a couple of adults will knock some discipline into them.

I frankly couldn't tell you where Virgin fly today, except Orlando in the Summer and probably New York daily. Or have they dropped that too?

And I'm aligned with the aviation World. Imagine what perception Mr Smith from Basingstoke has of them.

[rog747]

Glory days were when I worked on all the VS P/W 747 Classics 1988-1993

We just had 2 747's at first, with 2 more ships added each year - total 8 at LGW by 1991.

VS1 EWR
VS3 JFK 1988 (iirc went over to LHR 1991)
VS5 MIA
VS7 LAX 1990 (went over to LHR 1991)
VS9 BOS 1991
VS25 MCO first ran as twice weekly charters to MCO Tues & Thus for Thomson and Virgin Holidays (went scheduled 1992 going double daily 747's VS15 and VS75)
VS901 NRT first ran via SVO 1989

We had ''VIRG & GIN''
Followed by G-TKYO G-VRGN (Both from SQ, with more powerful PW JT9D- 7Q's for the LAX and NRT non stops)
G-VMIA An old -100 series with 14J and 474Y for MIA and MCO
G-VOYG, ex G-BMGS ''going sick'' as well known with BA and CKT
Lastly, G-VJFK G-VLAX both from QF

I can name them all if you want LOL

Those were the best days.....

[Wycombe]

misguided Brits go to Orlando in summer

Enough of us "misguided Brits" to fill 5 744's on the day last July when I departed MCO.

Having to wait onboard for 2 hrs after arrival due lightning in the vicinity was a bit of a pain though! (but well-handled by VS)

[pholling]

Enough of us "misguided Brits" to fill 5 744's on the day last July when I departed MCO.

Having to wait onboard for 2 hrs after arrival due lightning in the vicinity was a bit of a pain though! (but well-handled by VS)

I have never been able to figure out why there isn't more UK-MCO traffic during the autumn and winter half terms and Easter. A much better time to get your Mickey fix, especially the half-term breaks when all the Americans are in school. Anyhow, VS's UK-US ops are now very much in the hands of the planners in ATL. So any changes there are well thought through by those folks. Now that DL and AF/KL have the vast majority of shares I would imagine similar treatment will be given to other ops, which were only partially controlled by ATL in the past.

As for lightning, that always closes the ramp. Can't place or remove the jet bridge, fuel, or unload/load baggage for the duration. A pain, but everyone is equally affected.

[azz767]

I have never been able to figure out why there isn't more UK-MCO traffic during the autumn and winter half terms and Easter. A much better time to get your Mickey fix, especially the half-term breaks when all the Americans are in school. Anyhow, VS's UK-US ops are now very much in the hands of the planners in ATL. So any changes there are well thought through by those folks. Now that DL and AF/KL have the vast majority of shares I would imagine similar treatment will be given to other ops, which were only partially controlled by ATL in the past.

As for lightning, that always closes the ramp. Can't place or remove the jet bridge, fuel, or unload/load baggage for the duration. A pain, but everyone is equally affected.

In my experience a week just isn’t enough for the land of the mouse. The problem with half term is going for longer than a week at these times means taking your child out of school, which now means our stupid government give you a stupid fine meaning you have to spend stupid money on going in the holidays. I have however seen cases where the fine for taking the child out of school has worked out less than the increase in cost for going in summer so the parents have swallowed the fine

[Wycombe]

As for lightning, that always closes the ramp.

Indeed, apparently due to Union rules. The ramp workers can't come out to play until there has been no lightning detected for 15 mins within 5 miles (I think). We sat watching the bolts came down counting-up the further 15 minute delays :-)

[PAXboy]

I try not to harp on the South Africa route but it is my most regular trip (from when I was 9 years old!) Since BA have obviously sorted the local problems, VS should have been able to do so. I do understand that VS thought they could make more money elsewhere (this long before the Delta days) BUT as the routes have always been cash cows for BA - how not for VS? As mentioned, you only have to list the 744s, T7s and 380s that arrive at JNB + CPT everyday to know that this is a prime route.

Now, of course, there is no hope of building it back as everything has to be decided in Atlanta. Full membership of Sky Team must be on the cards!

[pholling]

Indeed, apparently due to Union rules. The ramp workers can't come out to play until there has been no lightning detected for 15 mins within 5 miles (I think). We sat watching the bolts came down counting-up the further 15 minute delays :-)

I don't know who handles VS in MCO, but if it is DL, who do handle VS in other US locations, it won't have anything to do with union rules as the ground crews are not unionised in most cities. However, the companies all take lightning quite seriously. Something many Brits don't really appreciate is how serious lightning can be and how quickly it can appear on the edge of a building storm.

[FFMAN]

Full membership of Sky Team must be on the cards!

Yes please. That can't happen soon enough IMO - I'd be inclined then to make VS my first TATL choice from MAN. I find it pretty galling that when I fly across the pond with VS on a Delta ticket (this project has a US based employer) with my AF/KLM SkyTeam card I do not get a single point for my troubles purely because of the fact that the flight is VS op.
Now that annoyed me on principle in January so I flew the time after that with UA through EWR to bolster my *A points just to spite 'em. Ha!
(Edit: before anyone suggests it, no point in joining the VS flying club - especially now - you never get the critical mass from a single airline unless you fly from a a conventional hub).

[Wycombe]

I don't know who handles VS in MCO, but if it is DL, who do handle VS in other US locations, it won't have anything to do with union rules as the ground crews are not unionised in most cities.

Well I guess the Capt/crew are misinformed as that's what they told us. Handling is by Alliance Ground Int'l I believe.

Even in Mickey's parks there were warnings that lightning can strike up to 10 miles from the core of the storm. For me the daily lightning shows just made the holiday a bit more interesting!

[116d]

Yes indeed. VS decided they really didn't want any seasonal routes ( misguided Brits go to Orlando in summer) - they cost more to promote and operate. The transatlantic and Delta feed are now the most important market. Am surprised by Tel Aviv though expect it will be okay- there is a lot of competition but the premium and Upper options may tempt those prepared to pay a bit more.

BOS, LAS and LAX from MAN are all seasonal. Hopefully that will change in the future for some of these routes, but we shall see.

Also not all passengers who fly to MCO have the Orlando area as their final/only destination or are interested in the parks. For example, to get to the Gulf Coast from MAN the choices are to either fly to MCO and drive (only 2hrs from MCO to the beaches in the Tampa Bay Area), drive to LGW (4-5hrs drive depending on traffic plus stops) for the TPA flights with BA or Norwegian, or to change somewhere (whether it's in KEF or somewhere in the US).

[116d]

I have never been able to figure out why there isn't more UK-MCO traffic during the autumn and winter half terms and Easter. A much better time to get your Mickey fix, especially the half-term breaks when all the Americans are in school. Anyhow, VS's UK-US ops are now very much in the hands of the planners in ATL. So any changes there are well thought through by those folks. Now that DL and AF/KL have the vast majority of shares I would imagine similar treatment will be given to other ops, which were only partially controlled by ATL in the past.

As for lightning, that always closes the ramp. Can't place or remove the jet bridge, fuel, or unload/load baggage for the duration. A pain, but everyone is equally affected.


I currently don't have kids and completely agree with you. I've been in September a couple of times shortly after Labour Day and providing you accept the fact that you may be impacted by a hurricane due to the time of year, you are rewarded with 25-30c temperatures and more comfortable levels of humidity, cheaper accommodation rates and much shorter queues at the parks (so much so you can get on some rides more than once within a short space of time whereas a few weeks prior you could be waiting for over an hour or so). Ditto with Mediterranean destinations - quieter, cheaper but the weather generally just as good/more comfortable than a few weeks prior.

Lightning disruption can be a pain, but I fully respect any decision taken due to the risks. They deal with lightning on a far more regular basis than us Brits, so I acknowledge that they wouldn't be hiding inside just because they feel like it and they know what they're doing.

[andrewn]

I currently don't have kids and completely agree with you. I've been in September a couple of times shortly after Labour Day and providing you accept the fact that you may be impacted by a hurricane due to the time of year, you are rewarded with 25-30c temperatures and more comfortable levels of humidity, cheaper accommodation rates and much shorter queues at the parks (so much so you can get on some rides more than once within a short space of time whereas a few weeks prior you could be waiting for over an hour or so). Ditto with Mediterranean destinations - quieter, cheaper but the weather generally just as good/more comfortable than a few weeks prior.

Lightning disruption can be a pain, but I fully respect any decision taken due to the risks. They deal with lightning on a far more regular basis than us Brits, so I acknowledge that they wouldn't be hiding inside just because they feel like it and they know what they're doing.

Off to the world of the mouse in exactly a months time, flying VS, MAN-MCO. Never been WDW or flown VS, so a few firsts for us. Appears as though we have avoided the dreaded school fines as well, their not compulsory apparently...

[Wycombe]

......although I've talked quite a bit about the stormy (and hot/humid) MCO we experienced last year (June/July) our previous trip was at this time of year. Mainly sunny, warm enough (70's), no storms or humidity. Very pleasant as I remember and less queues in the parks, although a few (esp. waterparks) were closed. Also managed to do a bit of space (Cape Canaveral) and aviation (The Kermit Weeks/Fantasy of Flight Museum at Polk City). Have fun.

Sorry for going OT!

[andrewn]

......although I've talked quite a bit about the stormy (and hot/humid) MCO we experienced last year (June/July) our previous trip was at this time of year. Mainly sunny, warm enough (70's), no storms or humidity. Very pleasant as I remember and less queues in the parks, although a few (esp. waterparks) were closed. Also managed to do a bit of space (Cape Canaveral) and aviation (The Kermit Weeks/Fantasy of Flight Museum at Polk City). Have fun.

Sorry for going OT!

thanks Wycombe, I checked and the waterparks re-open just before we go.

Back OT, I paid a little extra for the Virgin Economy Delight offering, thinking the extra legroom would be worth it. It's a 744, not sure if anybody else has tried it?

[Airfrance7]

thanks Wycombe, I checked and the waterparks re-open just before we go.

Back OT, I paid a little extra for the Virgin Economy Delight offering, thinking the extra legroom would be worth it. It's a 744, not sure if anybody else has tried it?

I have had the pleasure of using the Premium Economy experience on Virgin. A good service and worth the extra premium. However, it is a case of pot luck as some of the Virgin 747 equipment is old and dated.

Dont let that put you off.

Enjoy

AF7

[Wycombe]

VS PE is indeed very good - way better than BA WT+. I've used it on 744, 346 and 330.

In my opinion, the best seats in economy (with no extra charges) on the 744 are at the very back on the main deck (last 3 rows I think), the side seats where the fuselage narrows are 2-across with extra space between the outermost seat and the side-wall. Nice if travelling as a couple.

[andrewn]

VS PE is indeed very good - way better than BA WT+. I've used it on 744, 346 and 330.

In my opinion, the best seats in economy (with no extra charges) on the 744 are at the very back on the main deck (last 3 rows I think), the side seats where the fuselage narrows are 2-across with extra space between the outermost seat and the side-wall. Nice if travelling as a couple.

But I'm not actually sure we are in what you call PE? If you look athe link (https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/on-the-flight/cabin-and-seats.html) there's the 3 different Economy flavours (of which we are in Delight), Premium and Upper Class.

[rog747]

But I'm not actually sure we are in what you call PE? If you look athe link (https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/on-the-flight/cabin-and-seats.html) there's the 3 different Economy flavours (of which we are in Delight), Premium and Upper Class.

Y Delight is just extra legroom 34'' in main cabin and full Y fare extras - but well worth it on long flights

W is Premium Y
separate smaller cabin and bigger seats, enhanced service and meals

[andrewn]

Thanks Rog - I thought as much

[116d]

thanks Wycombe, I checked and the waterparks re-open just before we go.

Back OT, I paid a little extra for the Virgin Economy Delight offering, thinking the extra legroom would be worth it. It's a 744, not sure if anybody else has tried it?

The Economy seats in the rear half of the bubble on the 747 are sold as Economy Delight seats along with a number of seats in the main cabin. I am 6ft tall and the legroom does make a difference having sat up there coming back from JFK 3 months ago and downstairs on the way out, plus the bubble has a more quiet, intimate atmosphere and there's storage bins at the side in between the windows and the window seat (the overhead bins are there as well, but are slightly smaller than downstairs). As the front half of the bubble is also PE, you will be let off the aircraft before the rest of the Economy cabin which will be just what you need when you land at MCO to avoid the immigration queues.

If you can, make sure your Delight seats are in the bubble. Although if you can wangle an upgrade to PE, you won't be disappointed.

That's right about the water parks. I know that during the winter months Disney closes one of them at a time for annual maintenance (they call it "rehabilitation"), but best to check beforehand which one will be open as they don't close them in the same order every year. I saw why in March 2016 as Blizzard Beach was open whilst Typhoon Lagoon was closed and, maintenance aside, it wasn't that busy - mind you it was a weekday. In the previous couple of years before, Blizzard Beach was closed at that time.

Anyway, back on topic...enjoy the 747 experience! :ok:

[116d]

In my experience a week just isn’t enough for the land of the mouse. The problem with half term is going for longer than a week at these times means taking your child out of school, which now means our stupid government give you a stupid fine meaning you have to spend stupid money on going in the holidays. I have however seen cases where the fine for taking the child out of school has worked out less than the increase in cost for going in summer so the parents have swallowed the fine

Last off-topic post from me!

It depends if it's your first time or not. If you're going for the first time then I agree a week isn't enough and 2 weeks is needed to do all of them at a reasonable pace and still have time for a chill day by the pool or shopping or go further afield. If you're going in low season, you could get away with doing it in 10 days if you're prepared to do 2 parks in one day. If you know what you want to do and what you don't want to do, then you might get away with 1 week.

It also depends on the individual/group. For example, I find there isn't enough at Epcot or Magic Kingdom to keep me there for the whole day (again, please remember I don't have kids), so I once visited both in the same day. I also find that Epcot only really has enough rides of interest to keep me occupied for half a day and the World Showcase is heavily food & drink orientated, whereas Magic Kingdom is great for the day if you have young kids/families.

[PAXboy]

Virgin Atlantic drops mandatory makeup for female cabin crew
Airline says crew can work without makeup but must follow chosen palette if they do
The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/04/virgin-atlantic-drops-mandatory-makeup-for-female-cabin-crew)

[goldeneye]

Virgin Atlantic are launching flights from Heathrow to São Paulo from 2020.*

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/03/20/virgin-atlantic-to-launch-new-south-american-route/

[Charlie Roy]

Virgin Atlantic are launching flights from Heathrow to São Paulo from 2020.*

Good choice, and I bet they'll code share with GOL giving very good access to a lot of South America.

[ATIS]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/18/virgin-air-stewards-threaten-easter-strike-claim-unfair-pay/

good luck to the cabin crew.

I just don't understand why in Europe it's a constant battle with so called "management"

[easyflyer83]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/18/virgin-air-stewards-threaten-easter-strike-claim-unfair-pay/

good luck to the cabin crew.

I just don't understand why in Europe it's a constant battle with so called "management"



VS cabin crew have never been particularly well paid and have always relied upon their allowances (which isn’t really pay in the strictest sense and how much they actually spend downroute is monitored by HMRC). However, it is still often seen as the benchmark when people think of cabin crew.

The power of a brand.

[lotus1]

Flew out last Sunday to lasvegas with virgin from Gatwick not many happy VS cabin crew with the loss soon of the 747 from gatwick being transferred to Heathrow on 787 also being flown back next day as passengers to uk I was impressed with all the staff happy done jobs well

[andrewn]

Last off-topic post from me!

It depends if it's your first time or not. If you're going for the first time then I agree a week isn't enough and 2 weeks is needed to do all of them at a reasonable pace and still have time for a chill day by the pool or shopping or go further afield. If you're going in low season, you could get away with doing it in 10 days if you're prepared to do 2 parks in one day. If you know what you want to do and what you don't want to do, then you might get away with 1 week.

It also depends on the individual/group. For example, I find there isn't enough at Epcot or Magic Kingdom to keep me there for the whole day (again, please remember I don't have kids), so I once visited both in the same day. I also find that Epcot only really has enough rides of interest to keep me occupied for half a day and the World Showcase is heavily food & drink orientated, whereas Magic Kingdom is great for the day if you have young kids/families.

Thanks for the tips 116 - now back from the WDW experience. It's expensive, VERY expensive, like $5 minimum for a soft drink and $25 just to park each day!! But we all enjoyed it immensely so I'm glad we took the plunge before the kids (and parents) got to old.

[andrewn]

The Economy seats in the rear half of the bubble on the 747 are sold as Economy Delight seats along with a number of seats in the main cabin. I am 6ft tall and the legroom does make a difference having sat up there coming back from JFK 3 months ago and downstairs on the way out, plus the bubble has a more quiet, intimate atmosphere and there's storage bins at the side in between the windows and the window seat (the overhead bins are there as well, but are slightly smaller than downstairs). As the front half of the bubble is also PE, you will be let off the aircraft before the rest of the Economy cabin which will be just what you need when you land at MCO to avoid the immigration queues.

If you can, make sure your Delight seats are in the bubble. Although if you can wangle an upgrade to PE, you won't be disappointed.

That's right about the water parks. I know that during the winter months Disney closes one of them at a time for annual maintenance (they call it "rehabilitation"), but best to check beforehand which one will be open as they don't close them in the same order every year. I saw why in March 2016 as Blizzard Beach was open whilst Typhoon Lagoon was closed and, maintenance aside, it wasn't that busy - mind you it was a weekday. In the previous couple of years before, Blizzard Beach was closed at that time.

Anyway, back on topic...enjoy the 747 experience! :ok:

No Econ Delight bubble seats on our 744s unfortunately, ended up on rows 40/41/42, right in the middle of the big wing, which restricted viewing somewhat. But it was definitely worth paying a little extra for the legroom, in my opinion. Being pretty much in the middle of the jet meant that you always waited until last for the drinks / meal services, and some meals had "sold out" by the time they reached us, which was a little annoying and seems odd given Econ Delight pax had paid the extra. And the IFE was showing its age, with poor touch screens, broken USBs and rubbish headsets!

Other than that nothing but good things to say about VS and the 744 - both flights ran either to time or early, cabin crew were great, the 744 was fantastic to fly on - still the queen of the skies, despite both our planes being circa 20yrs young! And the flightcrew were happy to show the kids round the cockpit on landing in MCO - always a nice touch, and very much appreciated.

[goldeneye]

With the double daily flights from both LGW and MAN to MCO a good chunk of the year, what A/C is likely to take these routes over from the 744.

[PDXCWL45]

With the double daily flights from both LGW and MAN to MCO a good chunk of the year, what A/C is likely to take these routes over from the 744.
The A350 1000 Heathrow and Manchester will see them first.

[chaps1954]

But as the A350 at LHR and MAN are both high in business class they are more likely to go to JFK and ATL possibly LAX

[PDXCWL45]

But as the A350 at LHR and MAN are both high in business class they are more likely to go to JFK and ATL possibly LAX
I've read that there will be higher density A350s for the beach routes.

[adfly]

The travel weekly interview with the CEO seems to suggest that there will be 7 A350's based at Heathrow and 5 at Gatwick, with the latter presumably in the leisure configuration. I guess either the two 332's from Gatwick will be used for expansion there (possibly the BOS/JFK routes if Delta don't fly them), or they will move up to Manchester to expand that base.

I guess if this is the case the question remains if Manchester will see the A350's rotated through to operate the MCO route, or if it will go over to the A330, presumably with a frequency boost? It will also be interesting to see how they will expand LGW if Delta end up operating the BOS/JFK routes, since they seem to have been slowly shrinking there for the past few years.

Link here: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/329389/big-interview-shai-weiss-chief-executive-of-virgin-atlantic

[MANFOD]

I read somewhere else a quote that referred to the first 7 A350s being based at LHR & MAN, but the quote in that Travel Weekly article only mentions LHR.

Weiss said: “The first seven will be based at Heathrow, then five at Gatwick perhaps by 2021.”

So unless some of the a/c are rotated through MAN, it would seem we may have to rely on the A330s when the B747s are phased out.

[azz767]

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlantic-s-boeing-787-business-class-seat-will-be-a-new-design

Daniel Kerzner in this article seems to suggest that MAN will get some of the more premium heavy batch of the initial seven. Whether 1/2 of the LGW will do MCO and rotate down route is another question but the article above definitely suggests that of the initial 7, 'some' (I would say two) are destined for MAN, probably for JFK and ATL ops

[chaps1954]

Yes they were mentioned and that they are the high end business machines 44 business class from memory.
my feelings are that we will see the Gatwick ones as well but just on MCO as it is very high demand from Manchester
and will involve aircraft changing over at MCO as the B747s do now

[azz767]

VS 75 and 109 cancelled from MAN today. Is there a problem with the 744's?

[VickersVicount]

Presumably there is profit to be made but how much expense is there is what seems like disproportionate ferrying of 747s for Orlando weekend flights. As per VirginSource there are multiple short ferry flights eg GLA-BFS, MAN-GLA, LGW-MAN etc which must be a crewing and logistical nightmare.

[BAladdy]

VS 75 and 109 cancelled from MAN today. Is there a problem with the 744's?

This mornings VS110 from ATL was cancelled. Severe weather at ATL yesterday evening lead to a large number of flights being cancelled. Today’s VS109 to ATL has probably been cancelled due to the aircraft still being in ATL.

This mornings VS074 from MCO was cancelled after the aircraft due to operate the flight G-VROS, was diverted to MIA due weather which resulted in the aircraft night stopping there. VS plan to add and additional flight tonight from MCO to MAN operating as VS1074.

[johnw1951]

There was a lot of shifting around of times and gates before the decision to cancel the VS74 Manchester flight was announced. Annoyingly, at least for us Manchester bound passengers, the inward flight from Glasgow (which was already running late) on which we were due to return was switched to cover the Gatwick flight, leaving us in Orlando for another 24 hours.
One service rep said it might be because of slot problems at Manchester. Does that sound realistic? With over 100 flights cancelled at MCO yesterday some disruption was always likely - but was there some advantage in choosing to drop VS74 rather than Gatwick?

[fatmed]

Just being reported on sky news that VS are bidding to buy TCX long haul operations.

[spannersatcx]

There was a lot of shifting around of times and gates before the decision to cancel the VS74 Manchester flight was announced. Annoyingly, at least for us Manchester bound passengers, the inward flight from Glasgow (which was already running late) on which we were due to return was switched to cover the Gatwick flight, leaving us in Orlando for another 24 hours.
One service rep said it might be because of slot problems at Manchester. Does that sound realistic? With over 100 flights cancelled at MCO yesterday some disruption was always likely - but was there some advantage in choosing to drop VS74 rather than Gatwick?

They do it to protect LGW always have and always will!

[rog747]

Just being reported on sky news that VS are bidding to buy TCX long haul operations.

And Lufty are after getting Condor back...

[azz767]

VS orders A330neo for A330ceo (-200 and -300) replacement plus 6 options for expansion at Paris.

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/1140555726152249344

[El Bunto]

VS orders A330neo for A330ceo (-200 and -300) replacement plus 6 options for expansion at Paris.



Odd considering that the A330-900 has basically the same floor area as the 787-9 which they already have in their fleet. Why diversify with a small fleet?

Perhaps they're cheaper.

[azz767]

Odd considering that the A330-900 has basically the same floor area as the 787-9 which they already have in their fleet. Why diversify with a small fleet?

Perhaps they're cheaper.

i actually think it’s because they’re more cost effective on 6-8 hour routes like east coast USA, Israel and the UAE. The range of the 789 isn’t needed on these shorter routes. I think the 6 options for expansion show they see potential to grow at MAN, on the other hand it could easily cover replacing the TCX long haul fleet should they get the long haul part of the business they have bid for

[poolebob]

Flying LHR -DEL and return in November. VA only operate one flight per day in each direction and it is always late. Usually 2-3 hours DEL-LHR. NO doubt VA will blame closure of Pakistan airspace but BA & AI manage to arrive on time or thereabouts. Did wonder if it is because they are still using A340 on this route. Anyone know why VA timekeeping is so appalling on this route.

[A320baby]

It is because of the airspace closure! The dates keep changing when the airspace will reopen!

[CabinCrewe]

Fully painted A350 looking good! Though metallic red effect doesn't look as prominent

[poolebob]

It is because of the airspace closure! The dates keep changing when the airspace will reopen!

Thanks but it cannot be that because AI and BA operate the same routes and dont have the same delays

[EZYMAN]

Thanks but it cannot be that because AI and BA operate the same routes and dont have the same delays

British Airways have extended flight times.

[CabinCrewe]

Can't wait to see the VS A350 in a couple of weeks, not finalised yet, for various reasons, but likely to be at PIK and GLA exclusively for training. Ultimately likely to be seen on permanent scheduled services from their only Scottish departure point.

[Torquelink]

Perhaps they're cheaper.

By about $20m apiece

[Seljuk22]

VS to launch daily LGW-JFK flights next May and add additional frequencies to LAX and SEA; LHR-JFK will be reduced to 5 daily and MAN-BOS will be taken over by DL
https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/media/press-releases/virgin-atlantic-delta-new-flight-schedule.html

[cornishsimon]

That’s interesting considering VS have 0 feed at LGW

the BA rotation seems to suffer proactive cancellations when we they are short a frame, it’s also the cheapest LON-NYC to booo that BA offer and that’s with feed at LGW to places not otherwise connected to the BA network at LHR, ie JER


cs

[Alteagod]

Unless the reinvented BE will start feeding into LGW

[cornishsimon]

Well yes that wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Iv said before that the only reason VS wants anything to do with BE is for them to cut the majority of flying that connect regional in/ Europe to a virgin or delta long haul operation.


cs

[PAXboy]

Hi, it is a long time since I travelled UC and we are booked out of LHR in Sept with a companion ticket for my partner - she has never been in UC before and I look forward to her amazement!

For the kerbside check-in, I understand I can book a timeslot and then, before arrival, phone ahead with the number plate. Please could folks confirm/deny/update?

Thanks.

[TCAS FAN]

Hi, it is a long time since I travelled UC and we are booked out of LHR in Sept with a companion ticket for my partner - she has never been in UC before and I look forward to her amazement!

For the kerbside check-in, I understand I can book a timeslot and then, before arrival, phone ahead with the number plate. Please could folks confirm/deny/update?

Thanks.

Yes you are correct you need to phone in you vehicle reg. Unless its changed recently the number is 0344 412 4666. You can check on the VS website.

As you drive up to Terminal 3 you will see a sign on the left which directs you to the Upper Class Suite. Up the ramp to the check-in. Enjoy!

[BAladdy]

VS have made the following changes to there Caribbean network from LGW for next summer. All the changes listed will take place from 8th June 2020.

Antigua - Overall frequency increasing from 3 to 4 x weekly operated by a A332

Grenada - 2 x weekly service will be routed via Antigua instead of St Lucia from 8th June 2020.

Havana - 2 x weekly service will transfer to LHR from 8th June 2020, A333 will operate this service.

St Lucia - 3 x weekly service dropped from 7th June 2020

Tobago - Weekly service will be routed via Antigua instead of St Lucia from 14th June 2020

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285751/virgin-atlantic-caribbean-network-changes-from-june-2020/?highlight=Virgin%20Atlantic

[ETOPS]

Am I reading that right? VS are ceasing UVF?

[BA318]

Am I reading that right? VS are ceasing UVF?

Yes. Was announced a few weeks back. Apparently VS asked for subsidies from St. Lucia and they said no so the route gets dropped.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/07/29/virgin-atlantic-to-drop-st-lucia-route/

https://www.headforpoints.com/2019/07/27/virgin-atlantic-dropping-st-lucia-and-moving-havana/
"There is an implication in the local press coverage (https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-to-halt-flights-to-saint-lucia-in-subsidy-stalemate/) that Virgin Atlantic had demanded explicit or implicit subsidies worth $2.5m from St Lucia in order to continue flights. This could have been, for example, via a payment for a marketing campaign in the UK, or via heavy discounts on landing fees. The Government was unwilling to meet these demands."

[PAXboy]

The RyanAir approach has spread ... :hmm:

[gilesdavies]

Reading in other forums, it seems to be the reason DL/VS are opening JFK and BOS routes from Gatwick next year is the likelihood of Jet Blue launching their London operations from the airport, and they are keen to give them some competition on the routes.

I've not heard Jet Blue are definitely launching the transatlantic routes from Gatwick, but it seems DL and VS are making it clear they will have a fight on their hands!

Another blow for struggling Norwegian too!

[SealinkBF]

Yes you are correct you need to phone in you vehicle reg. Unless its changed recently the number is 0344 412 4666. You can check on the VS website.

As you drive up to Terminal 3 you will see a sign on the left which directs you to the Upper Class Suite. Up the ramp to the check-in. Enjoy!

You can even arrive by taxi. The left turn off is extremely sharp!

[Seljuk22]

That’s interesting considering VS have 0 feed at LGW
https://worldwide.easyjet.com/

[TCAS FAN]

You can even arrive by taxi. The left turn off is extremely sharp!

No problem as long as you have called ahead with the taxi reg number. Access past the barrier uses number plate recognition.

[PAXboy]

Great, thanks folks for prompt replies. Will get that booked.

[CabinCrewe]

The VS A350 is, as predicted, at GLA for training

[PAXboy]

Thanks TCAS FAN
Yes you are correct you need to phone in you vehicle reg. Unless its changed recently the number is 0344 412 4666. You can check on the VS website.
When I rang the number they said that pre-booking was no longer required - just turn up. My guess is that i) That saves time (=money) in admin of noting details ii) That many folks then turned up in a different vehicle anyway.

[TCAS FAN]

Thanks TCAS FAN

When I rang the number they said that pre-booking was no longer required - just turn up. My guess is that i) That saves time (=money) in admin of noting details ii) That many folks then turned up in a different vehicle anyway.

Thanks PAXboy, will remember that for next trip. Enjoy the Clubhouse, if you are travelling to MIA you will have to use the Delta Business Class lounge on the return, its absolute c**p, no comparison to the Virgin Clubhouses, you even have to buy your drinks if you do not want some obscure brand, and forget the champagne!

[fanrailuk]

Virgin Atlantic seeks to become second Heathrow flag-carrier (https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/virgin-atlantic-seeks-to-become-second-heathrow-flag-carrier/?)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Utter drivel of the highest order, worthy of Branson on his high horse "4 engines 4 long haul" days.
I do love VS but sometimes they make it hard....do they even realise they're good enough not to need this special treatment anymore?

[PAXboy]

The tunr off to the Clubhouse IS sharp! There is barrier and entryphone now. They checked the names and flight numbers of pax and then lifted the barrier.
Yes, the Clubhouse and service was brilliant. Could not fault them.

As to the expansion plans, I support them, not least as they mark Cape Town as being restored. I think the whole 'flag carrier' thing is a long hang over from their BA problems. I would rather point out that there is no flag carrier - as we no longer have a state owned airline and the largest airline is not all British. But they are playing an old tune and can't seem to get it out of their ear.

[Wycombe]

....and there we were all thinking (a few years ago) that getting Flybe (as it currently is) an increasing foothold at LHR seemed a bit crazy.

[caaardiff]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-26/virgin-atlantic-targets-manchester-growth-with-thomas-cook-slots

VS looking to gain extra slots at MAN. Although it mentions possibly using DL aircraft i'm guessing as slot sitters, any chance of VS keeping A340's on (again) and the 747's longer, with long term goal of more new A330/A350's? Chancing their luck at getting second hand A330's?

[MKY661]

I could maybe see Virgin take on Thomas Cook's G-TCX* A330's and adding additional capacity on some of the ex TCX routes, as well as reintroduce BOS. We shall see I guess

[eggc]

They dont need re-add Boston, DL are doing it for them soon. They could get DL do ATL again aswell, that would free up a frame or 2.

[MKY661]

Oh of course I forgot that Delta were taking it over.

[flyerguy]

Any news of any further expansion?

Seemed to think a new MAN destination was going to come about?

[Scottie Dog]

I believe that a shortage of aircraft has been responsible for a lack of announcements at this time.

[The Royal Family]

Got to say I heard a whisper about BA returning (longhaul) to Manchester

[The96er]

Got to say I heard a whisper about BA returning (longhaul) to Manchester

Not happening.

[The Royal Family]

Not happening.

This was from an exdespatcher who's wife works for BA out of Heathrow. You never know, we should ask a cleaner or caterer they always know first.

[azz767]

Does anyone know the reason for the low utilisation of the 747's over the past few weeks.

Looking at today, none are scheduled to operate with MAN and LGW getting an A333 each today.

They are an A332 down due to one being in Dresden for maintenance, but first of all i'm surprised they've got the slack in the LHR fleet to release two A333's even temporarily and also, how long has it been since even 1 VS 747 hasn't been scheduled at MCO on a particular day.

Unless there are charters that won't show on the FR24 departures list, that means 6 747's on the ground at MAN/LGW today with the last one in China for maintenance, it just seems odd.

[Scottie Dog]

VS75/76 has not operated, according to my records, on 14th and 21st January. Also on 15th and 16th it was an A330.

[azz767]

VS75/76 has not operated, according to my records, on 14th and 21st January. Also on 15th and 16th it was an A330.

Correct but the LGW flight on those dates were always a 747, today it's an A333. I can't remember a day where not even one of the UK-MCO routes in the VS network was operated by a 747.

[azz767]

No 747's operating again today. 2 A333's operating out of LGW on usual 747 routes and 1 at MAN.

I just don't understand how they have the slack in the LHR fleet to release 3 aircraft and how they can afford to have 6 747's sat on the ground doing nothing?

[Wycombe]

I just don't understand how they have the slack in the LHR fleet to release 3 aircraft and how they can afford to have 6 747's sat on the ground doing nothing?

Perhaps the current loads don't necessitate the 744, so much cheaper to operate the 333's instead. One would suspect that the 333's are costlier assets to have sitting around than the ageing 744's.

[ROC10]

Perhaps the current loads don't necessitate the 744, so much cheaper to operate the 333's instead. One would suspect that the 333's are costlier assets to have sitting around than the ageing 744's.

Agreed, if they are going to have six aircraft sitting on the ground, logic would suggest they’d rather it be the older frames than the newer ones, especially if loads are more appropriate for the smaller aircraft.

[22/04]

Agreed, if they are going to have six aircraft sitting on the ground, logic would suggest they’d rather it be the older frames than the newer ones, especially if loads are more appropriate for the smaller aircraft.

To say nothing of the 747s higher fuel burn

[SealinkBF]

Cape Town returns from 25th October.

[Dannyboy39]

Cape Town returns from 25th October.
poor flight timings

[22/04]

Virgin seem to under their new CEO to be trying to be a BA competitor again. Mumbai. Cape Town second Jo'burg. But is it working?

[SKOJB]

poor flight timings

Certainly not for the outbound as I have always enjoyed the early evening departure for an overnight and early morning Southern Africa sunrise, just perfect!

[Jenny Tails]

Virgin seem to under their new CEO to be trying to be a BA competitor again. Mumbai. Cape Town second Jo'burg. But is it working?

They just need to make the promised investment into Flybe/Virgin Connect.

[rog747]

CPT is to be a daily 787 and will be seasonal, with the ''unpopular'' day flight back - although I like it personally. (BA ditched their day flight back to be double daily at night CPT-LHR)
JNB is soon back down to once a day with the A350
DEL has 2 a day for Summer 2020
BOM is 787 daily
PVG is not running until the C-virus calms down
HKG - BA has just canx one of their 2 daily flights - Will VS canx their HKG? It's going that way....

The wheels are falling off the Virgin Connect/Flybe thing - Feel really sorry for the Flybe boys and girls....They need some job certainty but IMHO it looks pretty grim.

[PAXboy]

I had heard that CPT was going to be back BUT it is the 787, which I dislike. So will stick to JNB with the 350. The problem of the 78 is windows you cannot see out of at night and, as SKOJB says, the sunrise int he morning. Just this week, I retuned from CPT on BA and saw the sunrise at the top end of Africa, having seen it on the outbound to JNB 10 days earlier. I am not too bothered by daylight flights as I recall them from my earliest days on that route in the 1960s and 70s VC10. Ihave done daylights with several carriers and would happily do so with VS - but not on the 78.

[CKT789]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/02/25/virgin-atlantic-to-add-manchester-delhi-in-october-2020/
Manchester to Delhi flights starting later this year.

[AirportPlanner1]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/02/25/virgin-atlantic-to-add-manchester-delhi-in-october-2020/
Manchester to Delhi flights starting later this year.

If they’d timed it two hours later both it’s arrival and departure at MAN would nicely coincide with connections from the afternoon wave of domestic BE/Virgin Connect services. As it is, it doesn’t.

[Jenny Tails]

If they’d timed it two hours later both it’s arrival and departure at MAN would nicely coincide with connections from the afternoon wave of domestic BE/Virgin Connect services. As it is, it doesn’t.


The BE schedule is only on sale until 24th October so that's hardly an issue when this route doesn't begin ops until 26th October.

[inOban]

The schedule seems ideal for the majority of pax who will access the airport by train.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Just curious as to why Delhi would be operated as a seasonal destination?

[flyerguy]

Just curious as to why Delhi would be operated as a seasonal destination?

To gauge demand, leave it a few weeks in and I’d expect (if it’s doing well) to be extended to year round.

[FFMAN]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/02/25/virgin-atlantic-to-add-manchester-delhi-in-october-2020/
Manchester to Delhi flights starting later this year.

That could be useful to me. Delhi is a surprisingly good airport infrastructure wise (despite the arrival process and the comedy of having to show your boarding pass countless times on departure). I've used it more for connections to other Indian cities particularly BLR - does Virgin have any codeshare arrangements to take people beyond Delhi?

[nowhereasfiled]

does Virgin have any codeshare arrangements to take people beyond Delhi?

Nope, not yet anyway.

[22/04]

Just curious as to why Delhi would be operated as a seasonal destination?

Winter is the best time to visit India - too hot/humid in the Monsoon. Also it is when most decide the auspicious dates for arrange are so VFR traffic.

VS did have an arrangment with Jet Airways. It would be difficult to know who to share with now- other than Air India almost everything else is low cost and largely point to point. But cheap - so ethically Indian folks (and 22/04) would probably use SpiceJet or Indigo given the need to reclaim baggage anyway.

[WHBM]

CPT is to be a daily 787 and will be seasonal, with the ''unpopular'' day flight back - although I like it personally. (BA ditched their day flight back to be double daily at night CPT-LHR)
The issue with day-long (on the timetable) daylight flights is their lack of connectivity at one or even both ends. They may be fine for local O&D pax, but that is not a typical aircraft load.

And it's not just air connections. Surface transport can have finished (or not started), especially when you feel the need to give a buffer for delays. There's nothing worse than believing the stuff about doing public transport to the airport, then finding the return is a few hours late and your last train home has gone (been there, done that).

I've done the daylight a couple of times JFK-LHR. As we are discussing Virgin, VS26 departs JFK 0805 and arrives LHR 2005. To make that 0805 you really need to be at JFK by 0635, leaving Manhattan before 0600, so getting up in your hotel before 0500, feeling zonked. And not really practical to come in from much further afield. Into LHR 2005, you are doing well to be out by 2100. Last LHR domestic departure to anywhere is BA at 2105 to Edinburgh, so you are not going on by air. We're in London, so typically home by 2230, but you can't rely on getting that far up country on a train at this time of night. None of these issues arise if you take the traditional overnight flight, and thus the commercial demand is much higher. Westward transatlantic is not an issue because the clock change is the other way.

Long south-north same time zone daylight flights always have this issue, South Africa to Europe or Argentina to New York.

[ETOPS]

Worried for all my friends, both flight and cabin crew, at VS. I realise a lot of youngsters will miss their trips to Disney but people’s livelihoods are being threatened here.
Hope the restrictions can be lifted as soon as possible.

[SealinkBF]

US to extend travel ban to UK and Ireland from Monday.

[TartinTon]

Let's hope they get the support from their owners that they will require to weather this. Inevitable that there will be layoffs unfortunately.

[tartan 201]

An A340 seemingly on its way to PIK, presumably for storage:
VIR834P from London to Prestwick
https://fr24.com/VIR834P/242f3747

[rog747]

Worried for all my friends, both flight and cabin crew, at VS. I realise a lot of youngsters will miss their trips to Disney but people’s livelihoods are being threatened here.
Hope the restrictions can be lifted as soon as possible.

Yes - Unprecedented times in Aviation, the likes of which we have never seen before in our lifetimes.
I too wish all my still serving airline colleagues all the best during these worrying times.

Sadly, we likely will see casualties due to the Covid-19 situation in the coming weeks and months which has now escalated to an almost complete shutdown of worldwide air travel including now to the USA.

Virgin Atlantic - They are still 51% owned by Richard Branson's Virgin Group.
Virgin Atlantic was, and I assume still is 'His Baby' and he has very deep pockets.
He saved the airline twice in the past from going bust.

We could now see much earlier retirements of the Boeing 747 of which BA and Virgin still have large fleets.

[PDXCWL45]

Yes - Unprecedented times in Aviation, the likes of which we have never seen before in our lifetimes.
I too wish all my still serving airline colleagues all the best during these worrying times.

Sadly, we likely will see casualties due to the Covid-19 situation in the coming weeks and months which has now escalated to an almost complete shutdown of worldwide air travel including now to the USA.

Virgin Atlantic - They are still 51% owned by Richard Branson's Virgin Group.
Virgin Atlantic was, and I assume still is 'His Baby' and he has very deep pockets.
He saved the airline twice in the past from going bust.

We could now see much earlier retirements of the Boeing 747 of which BA and Virgin still have large fleets.
The CEO of Virgin Atlantic has called on the government to help the airlines.
https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlantic-boss-urges-boris-johnson-to-sanction-7-5bn-airline-bailout-11957708

[rog747]

I was gonna add - LOL --- Likewise British Airways and Virgin Atlantic.
BA will, as UK's flag carrier no doubt go to HM Govt for assistance, although parent IAG also own Spain's Iberia and Air Europa.

As for Virgin Atlantic - They are still 51% owned by Richard Branson's Virgin Group...............:)

[spacedog]

Yes - Unprecedented times in Aviation, the likes of which we have never seen before in our lifetimes.
I too wish all my still serving airline colleagues all the best during these worrying times.

Sadly, we likely will see casualties due to the Covid-19 situation in the coming weeks and months which has now escalated to an almost complete shutdown of worldwide air travel including now to the USA.

Virgin Atlantic - They are still 51% owned by Richard Branson's Virgin Group.
Virgin Atlantic was, and I assume still is 'His Baby' and he has very deep pockets.
He saved the airline twice in the past from going bust.

We could now see much earlier retirements of the Boeing 747 of which BA and Virgin still have large fleets.


Not 100% sure on the actual numbers, Virgin only have 5/6 747 in service mainly flying from LGW or MAN to MCO and some other leisure destinations. Plus JFK and ATL from MAN. VS have accelerated the departure of the A340 fleet with immediate effect.

BA have approx 30 747 still in service all bought and paid for. They are slowly being phased out as newer airframes come on line, working towards a retirement date of 2024. While oil is low BA will keep the 747 running. Should oil spike upwards then that could well accelerate the 747 departure from the fleet.
BA are in the process of grounding various aircraft due to the Corona virus with the plan of bringing them back on line if and when the situation improves.

[highwideandugly]

So good time to scrap HS2 project and redirect cash into the aviation industry! More important than knocking 20 mins off a London Birmingham train ride?

[rog747]

VS still have 7 x 747-400's (AFAIK they are owned) on their books - As you say not sure if all 7 though are in full service.

7 x 450 seat units are quite a large chunk of one's fleet.
They have paid for themselves many times over as people movers - same as BA's.

VS use them to MCO (Disney, and now all the USA is closed) and the Caribbean (many islands are now shutting doors)

[ElBogster]

So good time to scrap HS2 project and redirect cash into the aviation industry! More important than knocking 20 mins off a London Birmingham train ride?

Yawn yawn yawn. I’m sure you’re well educated enough to know HS2 is more about capacity than speed/time.

[KelvinD]

BA have approx 30 747 still in service all bought and paid for. They are slowly being phased out as newer airframes come on line
G-CIVM is due for the short trip to the knackers yard tomorrow. (16th)

[LTNman]

The CEO of Virgin Atlantic has called on the government to help the airlines.
https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlantic-boss-urges-boris-johnson-to-sanction-7-5bn-airline-bailout-11957708

Just like the government did with Flybe. Noted that the other airlines protested as they didn’t need aid so Flybe should be allowed to collapse.

[RedhillPhil]

So good time to scrap HS2 project and redirect cash into the aviation industry! More important than knocking 20 mins off a London Birmingham train ride?

​Oh Christ not this twenty minutes off Birmingham nonsense again - please.

[TartinTon]

So owners and shareholders are allowed to make as much as they like from companies in the good times and then the government is supposed to bail them out in times of crisis? How about tapping some of the grinning jumpers billions from his tax haven and supporting his own company? Likewise BA and all other public companies....go and get commercial loans based on sound recovery business plans and stop leaching off the taxpayer whose funds will be better spent supporting the NHS and easing the pain for small business. Cake and eat it comes to mind....

[gnarlberg]

then everybody would sell stocks very quick and stocks would be in a freefall

[inOban]

You want capacity, put more trains on those tracks, there's plenty of room! Some people will believe anything.
Nonsense. There isn't room, given the mixture of local, freight, and express trains.

[TartinTon]

then everybody would sell stocks very quick and stocks would be in a freefall

Like they are at the moment?

[ElBogster]

You want capacity, put more trains on those tracks, there's plenty of room! Some people will believe anything.

You’ve obviously never been on the West Coast line - standing room only and it has to support local services. You would have to be a magician to put more trains on those tracks 😂

As another poster has mentioned it’s the same companies that are now asking for support that were screaming when it looked like Flybe would get support apart from SRB who again was looking for free money from the Government.

[Guest 112233]

You’ve obviously never been on the West Coast line - standing room only and it has to support local services. You would have to be a magician to put more trains on those tracks 😂

As another poster has mentioned it’s the same companies that are now asking for support that were screaming when it looked like Flybe would get support apart from SRB who again was looking for free money from the Government.

How much of this potential support will go straight onto the pockets of the Lease Companies who actually own a substantial proportion of the Airlines fleet's (Not just Virgin of course) .

CAT III

[Barling Magna]

You want capacity, put more trains on those tracks, there's plenty of room! Some people will believe anything.

Wow! The lack of awareness of that remark is amazing....

[HZ123]

A number of keen observations made. I had served for 43 years in the aviation industry and wish serving colleagues the very best in this dire situation. However, I am opposed to to government bail outs! In particular as at this time and for the immediate future we do not know what we are going to be bailing out, I would rather see the monies helping those that will inevitably lose their jobs in general not just in aviation. The fiscal global market is on the brink for the majority of us!

[Dannyboy39]

... normally I'd agree with you, but I'm sure in your 43 year career, you've not seen anything as chaotic and desperate as this. And that includes 9/11.

[SealinkBF]

Given the ability of airlines like Delta, AA and BA to survive previous events, government loans should be available.

But going back to say, Flybe, it seems clear that the £100m the allegedly requested wouldn't have saved them anyway given developments.

[SealinkBF]

Wow! The lack of awareness of that remark is amazing....

Indeed. HS2 is about capacity not speed.

[zfw]

VS still have 7 x 747-400's (AFAIK they are owned) on their books - As you say not sure if all 7 though are in full service.

7 x 450 seat units are quite a large chunk of one's fleet.
They have paid for themselves many times over as people movers - same as BA's.

VS use them to MCO (Disney, and now all the USA is closed) and the Caribbean (many islands are now shutting doors)

Came back from BGI this morning on the Millenium Falcon aka GVLIP and they had managed to squeeze in 468 of us according the crew, not a seat left in the house.

[zfw]

And it looks like they may have made their mind up concerning the next few weeks, bang goes my early May Florida trip.Our flexible no change fees policyTo give you greater peace of mind with your upcoming travel plans, we've introduced a flexible no change fees policy.
For customers that have a ticket originally issued on or before 11 March 2020 for original dates of travel up to and including 31 May 2020. Ticket issued date Original travel date Affected destination Permitted travel period On or before 11 March 2020 1 March 2020 – 31 May 2020 VS issued tickets from/to/through all destinations when travelling on a VS/VS* flight numberTravel can be rebooked

13 March 2020 – 31 December 2020

zfw

[crewmeal]

I guess Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway flight to Florida is now cancelled?

[fjencl]

I guess Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway flight to Florida is now cancelled?


Yes that's correct

[ROC10]

I guess Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway flight to Florida is now cancelled?

Wouldn't say cancelled. It is of course not running as planned but people have been promised the flight will go ahead at a "later date" (that is, if Virgin survives of course).

[Fairdealfrank]

So good time to scrap HS2 project and redirect cash into the aviation industry! More important than knocking 20 mins off a London Birmingham train ride?

Excellent idea, direct it into the aviation and into research and development for electric aircraft and alternative fuels. Do that and there will still be billions left for other uses.

4-tracking Milton Keynes-Rugby and Rugby-Birmingham would knock the 20 minutes off the journey time at a fraction of the costs.


Indeed. HS2 is about capacity not speed.

Really? then why is it designed for 250 mi./hour trains, much faster than the 180 mi./hour trains on high speed rail in the rest of Europe?
Also, the faster the trains, the lower the frequency.

[ETOPS]

Really?

Yes - the capacity increase is on the WCML following removal of the high speed services when HS2 opens. At the moment the mix of speeds on WCML is the limiting factor for paths as all slower traffic has to sidestep into loops as the much faster Pendelino traffic is given a clear run.
When those units are withdrawn the remaining regional, local and freight trains will be able to be rebalanced with a new timetable giving the capacity increase mentioned.
I'm pretty certain that many travellers are still not aware that their high speed trains to Euston will be withdrawn at some stage......

[ElBogster]

Really? then why is it designed for 250 mi./hour trains, much faster than the 180 mi./hour trains on high speed rail in the rest of Europe?
Also, the faster the trains, the lower the frequency.

May as well make it faster as you’re only going to build it once and we want to be better than Europe🤣

So us pro HS2’ers have won the argument so back onto what the forum is about VA

[davidjohnson6]

Independent reports 75% of fleet to be grounded by end of March, rising to 85 % in April

[Flying Wild]

Independent reports 75% of fleet to be grounded by end of March, rising to 85 % in April
Virgin will fly 11/46 aircraft from Wednesday and 6/46 from March 26th

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Newark being dropped permanently it seems. It’s where it all began but with Delta at JFK, there’s just no love there.

[Sotonsean]

Newark being dropped permanently it seems. It’s where it all began but with Delta at JFK, there’s just no love there.

Having read just read that on business traveler it's a shame due to the history but sort of inevitable under the circumstances. But in all honesty I'm not too surprised especially since the Delta Virgin JV, guess it makes sense to concentrate at JFK.

I wonder if British Airways will pull out of Newark next.

​​​​​

[PAXboy]

In the longer term, I would expect BA to stay with EWR. Look what happened when VS pulled out of CPT? BA still ruling that roost, it's been a cash cow for them.

[Sotonsean]

In the longer term, I would expect BA to stay with EWR. Look what happened when VS pulled out of CPT? BA still ruling that roost, it's been a cash cow for them.

But Cape Town is a high demand leisure route especially during the northern winter season. Virgin Atlantic were foolish to abandon Cape Town in the first place leaving the route as a monopoly to British Airways especially after South African had axed their LHR flight. VS must have known that there was demand for Cape Town due the airline's data along with any connections on their Johannesburg flight.

Newark is a rather different story to Cape Town though. New York have two major international gateways serving the city whereas as Cape Town only has one.

VS returning to Cape Town was inevitable in my opinion.

With VS axing Newark it's not leaving the route as a monopoly to British Airways in the same way as leaving Cape Town was.

Newark and JFK are basically two New York airport's serving the same city.

Newark basically serves the metropolitan area of New York City. VS and BA already have a large presence at New York JFK. With VS axing Newark and concentrating their New York flights at JFK in cooperation with Delta there is nothing stopping BA doing the same especially as they have American Airlines as their JV partner at JFK.

Either way New York as a destination will still be served.

With VS axing Newark it's not leaving British Airways as a monopoly on LHR.

Let's not forget that United Airlines operate LHR-EWR so Newark will still have a LHR connection. If British Airways did follow suit and axe Newark it will be United Airlines who will have the monopoly on LHR to Newark.

It's no different to British Airways axing LGW to JFK and concentrating their New York flights at LHR.

With VS shortly resuming LGW to New York JFK I wonder if this route will still commence, same with Delta on LGW to Boston.

[inOban]

According to the BBC, Virgin Atlantic are going to ask for an enormous bailout at the start of next week.

[Copenhagen]

According to the BBC, Virgin Atlantic are going to ask for an enormous bailout at the start of next week.

From which government? Antigua?
​​

[esscee]

Well, they can ask but might not get the answer they are hoping for!

[McBruce]

If any bailout is considered it should come with the condition of setting up shop in the UK.

[SealinkBF]

From which government? Antigua?
​​

Indeed. I have concerns about their future. HOPING against hope they get help.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

[LTNman]

The government should not bail out VS. If they need money so quickly they either don’t want to spend their own cash reserves, don’t have any cash reserves and/or their shareholders don’t want to put their own money into the airline in case it still fails..

For the number of jobs they would save the money would be better spent propping up small businesses.

[Groundloop]

The government should not bail out VS. If they need money so quickly they either don’t want to spend their own cash reserves, don’t have any cash reserves and/or their shareholders don’t want to put their own money into the airline in case it still fails..

For the number of jobs they would save the money would be better spent propping up small businesses.

Did you read the BBC link:-

"The airline's founder Sir Richard Branson this week offered to inject £250 million into the Virgin Group, with most of that amount going to the airline."

[RoyHudd]

£250 million will not last long. I hate to see VS go under and those subsidised Middle East carriers survive. But that appears to be what will happen. Maybe VS should look to the Chinese to buy a chunk of them.

[ROC10]

One thing is certain and that is that Richard Branson and Virgin Atlantic (mainly Branson but he’s strongly associated with the brand) have been berated for putting their staff on unpaid leave despite Branson’s widely reported wealth. Of course, I’m sure many will book with them (if they survive) imminently after restrictions are lifted but there have been many calls to boycott Virgin Atlantic (along with other businesses like Wetherspoons, Arcadia, Sports Direct, Gordon Ramsay) so this could potentially be a factor.

[787Heaven]

Shareholders and directors have amassed huge wealth to the detriment of their hardworking employees. They treat their employees with contempt and then have the cheek to ask the govt for help?? Greed has gone too far!

[LTNman]

Did you read the BBC link:-

"The airline's founder Sir Richard Branson this week offered to inject £250 million into the Virgin Group, with most of that amount going to the airline."

Like they did with Flybe and we know how that ended. Bailouts should be linked to money spent vs jobs saved. Say they need 762 million to keep going, this would equate to £100,000 per job as they only have 7620 employees. I would imagine most of their routes are duplicated anyway. Of course the airline supports other jobs around the world but it is not for the U.K. to save the world.

[crewmeal]

Where is Delta's contribution in all this? I thought they owned 49% of VS.

[davidjohnson6]

Delta right now are thinking about their own survival and trying to avoid bankruptcy

[AirportPlanner1]

Of course the airline supports other jobs around the world but it is not for the U.K. to save the world.

Although of course the Germans have supported TUI which will safeguard a huge number of jobs here so there has to be some degree of give and take

[DomyDom]

According to the BBC, Virgin Atlantic are going to ask for an enormous bailout at the start of next week.

Well a good start would be to offer to repatriate UK citizens currently stuck abroad rather than leave their planes grounded on the tarmac and crews sitting at home.

If Branson and co. want socialist solutions to bail out their airline then can start by applying a bit of socialism to others.

[stormin norman]

Branson has probally caught an almighty cold with his Cruise ship.Lets see that on the market before he gets anything from the taxpayers.

[GROUNDHOG]

Might have hoped that over 30 years the company would have built a degree of resilience against a rainy day and yes I appreciate these are not normal circumstances and it is a bl88dy monsoon!
Sorry if VS go for all the staff but honestly see no reason why they should be an exception to the dozens of other travel companies and thousands of other businesses big and small that will go to the wall.

[Dannyboy39]

I feel very sorry for the staff at the coalface - I do like to use VS when I can, but they are one of the few airlines that still have the "fluff" from yesteryear. Unfortunately the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Wizz, Jet2 et al have watered down the product so much, Virgin's cost base is indeed just too high these days. They like Monarch didn't really know who they were catering for - business or leisure, both or neither.

The fact is that they've only made a small profit in 3 years out of the last 9 reported years (2010-2018) at a pre tax loss of £369m in that period.

[Groundloop]

Shareholders and directors have amassed huge wealth to the detriment of their hardworking employees. They treat their employees with contempt and then have the cheek to ask the govt for help?? Greed has gone too far!

A lot of the "wealth" often talked about for these types of people are actually in shares or share options, which are probably worth b*gger all at the moment, especially if they are shares in airlines.

[Wycombe]

I do like to use VS when I can, but they are one of the few airlines that still have the "fluff" from yesteryear. Unfortunately the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Wizz, Jet2 et al have watered down the product so much, Virgin's cost base is indeed just too high these days.

If you have flown VS for any number of years (my first flight with them was 25 years ago), you will know that a lot of the "fluff" has either gone or been reduced over the years.

They are a long-haul only, full service airline, with an all widebody fleet. Completely different operating models and markets to the short-haul low cost carriers you quote.

If you're going to make comparisons at least make them meaningful!

[pax britanica]

Bit sad aboutt he train operations- we are unlike to be better than Europe ( on past performance and as has been pointed out we are at iny little country -the London-Birmingham 100 miles gets you scarcely out the Paris region when looked at in comparison -they need the speed we dont we need capacity as someone wisely pointed out.
As to bail outs if they do become a serious issue , ie if crisis really prolonged preserve BA and EZ , shame about VS , FR can just sink without a trace ,

We have to consider that in many industries and enterprises. preserve the status qua as of two weeks ago keep all industries under government control and then bleed capacity back into all market and do not allow pointless competition

[WHBM]

It's difficult to believe that all the cash has gone in just a few weeks, especially as a lot of the cost, starting with fuel, is entirely dependent on how much flying you do. I thought the CAA required some minimum amount of cash resilience far more than this.

It is reasonable for the government to support a series of mainstream flight connections from the UK through and after all this. It is less understandable for them to support second or third carriers on the same routes, who just provide a competitive alternative in normal times.

[davidjohnson6]

Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...

[Superpilot]

we need capacity as someone wisely pointed out.

People getting used to working from home might turn that on its head. In fact, that was predicted 10 years ago. What, in another 10 years?

[spacedog]

Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...

its 40 years since Laker went bust. Virgin have been flying now for approx 35 years. A lot has changed in the aviation industry since then. Competition is everywhere you look keeping prices competitive. 30 years ago non of the big ME3 were born. TK was a small mainly inter European/Asia carrier. Transatlantic traffic is now more competitive than ever PA and TW have gone by the wayside replaced by 3 giants DL AA and UA.

The industry will continue to change and consolidate, which will mean that the financially weak or poorly managed companies will fail. Companies with stronger balance sheets will prevail and grow. If this means that the likes of VS and Norwegian fail so be it. Capacity will eventually be backfilled with financially stronger carriers.
As the stronger leaner carriers grow they will require extra workforce hopefully taking the displaced workers from the bust carriers.

Yes we we are in unprecedented times at the moment with Covid 19 and the closure of nearly all the worlds air routes. However this was not the cause of the airlines struggling to keep afloat, it may well be the trigger though. VS has not made money for a number of years even in the good times of growth and plenty of disposable income. Norwegian on the other hand has been poorly managed, grew far too quickly and is now unable to service its debt. It is only a matter of time in my opinion before the rug is pulled from underneath.

[787Heaven]

A lot of the "wealth" often talked about for these types of people are actually in shares or share options, which are probably worth b*gger all at the moment, especially if they are shares in airlines.

actually I think you will find it’s all hoarded in offshore bank accounts.

[Dannyboy39]

Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...
BA in its history have never been for competition - there is a very good documentary on YouTube called “Inside British Airways” made in 1990, under the stewardship of Marshall and King. It is a stark reminder of how minimal the choice was on some route at the time (and to an extent still is).

The rhetoric coming from Cruz and Walsh in the last few years have been along similar lines - and why not; it is their prerogative to maximise income for their business and its shareholders.

They are anti R3 at LHR because it would jeopardise their position as the top dog in London, not for its environmental arguments.