FAA Certifcates issued on basis of ICAO licence - STOPPED

[GoneWest]

FAA Certifcates issued on basis of ICAO licence - STOPPED

http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/forpilot.htm

...says there is a complete, yet temporary(?), ban on the FAA offices (FSDOs) issuing FAA Private Pilot Licences on the basis of Foreign Pilot Certificates.

All the DPE's (Flight Examiners) in the area - that were tasked with doing this job, post 9/11 - have been contacted and told to stop doing conversions WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT.

No news, just yet, as to whether an ICAO licensed pilot may take the FAA check ride for a full, stand alone, licence (without doing a course of training).

This ban, apparantly, applies to all FSDOs nationwide.

[englishal]

Assuming one already holds an FAA PPL IOB of ICAO licence, then I assume we can still fly or has good old George W put a stop on this too?

[edited because I just read the FAA document]

Cheers
EA;)

[dde0apb]

I think they're trying to work out how to security check people who are not actually receiving training, but who simply want to turn up, do a BFR / Flight Check and rent a plane.

My guess is that they will come up with a way, since the GA industry is not going to be happy with more measures which will reduce their income.

What it will probably prevent, or at least make more difficult, is what I used to do which was turn up on spec and simply rent a plane for a day between business meetings.. :(

[englishal]

AOPA are talking about all FAA certificate holders to carry US Government issued ID. This will no doubt include a background check, finger printing and photographing. Mind you, I'm not opposed to this as long as its done properly, and with the minimum of fuss. Better to be vetted and then avoid more 'knee jerk' reactions like we've seen in previous months.

Shame really, the Land of the Free is becoming less free by the day.

Cheers
EA:)

[GoneWest]

The US Government issued ID, of which AOPA speak is........your driving licence.

Feb. 21 — AOPA today petitioned FAA to change the rules to allow for a simple, inexpensive pilot photo ID that could be put into place almost immediately. AOPA said that FAA should simply require that pilots carry a valid, government-issued photo ID along with their pilot certificates when in command of an aircraft. That photo ID could be a driver's license, passport, state ID card, or government agency photo ID card.

Not much needed in the way of background checks and fingerprinting for that.

[PitotTube]

Hmm.. Don't you get finger-printed when you get a US driving license? I have a feeling that you do.

pt

[Julian]

Is that a US issued driving licence though?

I have seen a UK photo ID driving licence be rejected and only a passport accepted. The reason - they didn't normally get presented UK driving licences and therefore could not tell if they were forged!

Looks like you will be carrying your passport everywhere you go.

[I have control]

I didn't get fingerprinted when I got a US drivers licence

[englishal]

If you do not have a US State ID / Driving licence, which many people do not (I for one, as I'm a UK citizen), then you need to.....

To apply for an ID card you will need to do the following:

Visit a DMV office (make an appointment for faster service)
Complete application form DL 44 (An original DL 44 form must be submitted. Copies obtained by xeroxing, faxing or other methods will not be accepted.)
Give a thumb print
Have your picture taken
Provide your social security number (What if you haven't got one:))
Verify your birth date and legal presence (Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure (form I-94))
Pay the $6 regular or $3 senior citizen application fee

And now AOPAs new proposals......

KEY CONGRESSMAN ENDORSES AOPA PILOT ID PROPOSAL
A highly influential congressman who controls the FAA's purse strings has urged the agency to implement AOPA's petition to require pilots to carry a government-issued photo ID along with their pilot certificates. House transportation appropriations subcommittee Chairman Harold Rogers (R-Ky.) called the petition "an inexpensive and simple security enhancement that can be implemented immediately" in a July 15 letter. Rogers joins Sens. Max Cleland (D-Ga.) and Gordon Smith (R-Ore.) in endorsing the AOPA proposal. The FAA responded to Smith in June that the agency was drafting a rule to implement the security measure described in the AOPA petition. AOPA will continue to work with Congress and the Bush administration to ensure the pilot ID proposal doesn't get bogged down in executive review.

but they're also talking about:-

AOPA PILOT IDENTIFICATION PROPOSAL ADVANCING, TSA SAYS
The FAA anticipates issuing a formal notice to solicit public comments on AOPA's proposal that pilots be required to carry a valid government photo ID, in addition to their pilot and medical certificates, according to the Transportation Security Administration's just-released Report to Congress on Enhanced Security Measures. TSA has been charged with overseeing all security issues pertaining to transportation, including working with the FAA to incorporate photographs on pilot certificates. "While I'm pleased that the administration is moving forward on our petition, bureaucratic delays shouldn't delay a commonsense approach that can be implemented almost immediately," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. TSA's report to Congress fulfills a legislative requirement set forth by the Aviation and Transportation Security Act that was signed into law by President Bush on November 19, 2001.



Cheers
EA:)

[englishal]

By the way, you do get finger printed when you get a driving licence, at least you do in California...

Cheers
EA:)

[GoneWest]

No fingerprints for my Florida drivers licence - also heard today that....

Visitors without a visa are no longer eligible for a driving licence. Visitors with a visa may obtain a licence which is valid only until the expiry date of the visa.

Second - bit more scary - (as Desipilot has already posted on my "Wannabes" thread)...

The licence conversion has already stopped. Anyone wishing to fly in Federal Airspace (in an N reg aircraft) must now pass a full, stand alone, PPL check ride with an examiner.

This will also require a minimum of three hours of flight instruction within 90 days (90?? - double check - Englishal, correct me) with an FAA flight instructor, an FAA PPL written examination and the test.

There are no guide lines (yet) as to any other requirements - I can see that certain examiners will accept just the above, others will want to see the full training course signed by an FAA CFI.

If you already have an FAA license issued on the basis of a foreign licence - you CANNOT add any additional ratings to it. (This will take a chunk out of the pleasure of now being able to do an FAA I/R and count it towards the JAA one).

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

The FAA reg is 3 hours of flight training in the 60 days preceding flight test.

We can count at least 1.5 that would normally have been a checkout/flight review so that leaves the remaining 1.5 and the 1 hour flight test.

From my experience, a pilot who has never flown in the US tends to feel happier with a couple more hours under their belt and possibly a small x-country to show them the ways of the world.

Written test can be completed in the UK prior to arrival in the US.

Another thought that the FAA has not thought of is a student pillot certificate. An easier way to fly is to get one of these, couple of hours dual ie the equivalent of a Flight review, except this is for the solo review for the Instructor to endorse for solo. Then the pilot can fly on his/her own, acruing hours P1 as long as the Instructor endorses the P1. There does not appear to be any restrictions on this???

Left the stable door open again:rolleyes:

[englishal]

So, let me get this straight....an FAA PPL issued on basis of ICAO PPL is no longer valid ? and a full test needs to be passed (either CPL or PPL)...?

Right so what happens if, say in my circumstance, I have an FAA PPL IOB of ICAO PPL, but have also got the FAA IR and FAA ME? Does this mean that the 'PPL' bit is no longer valid, but the IR and ME ratings are as they have been marked 'US Test passed'?....

Oh well, I've been looking for an excuse to take my CPL, and I guess here is my chance.

Quote last night from my wife, who is American but living with me in England......"That country [US] scares me..."

Cheers
EA:)

[Stampe]

The US is beginning to look a sad place for light aviation these days,they were already way out of line with ICAO by insisting on issuing(albeit very painlessly)their own certificate on the basis of another ICAO licence.You should be able to fly anywhere in the world (day/VFR) on any valid ICAO licence.If this nonsense does not stop soon I think our authorities should withdraw the privelege of US licence holders to fly UK registered aircraft.This would also give our GA industry a much needed boost. Sadly the US is becoming very isolationist,it will be a long time before any of my earned cash migrates to the US in the form of aircraft rental as it has done in the past.I,ve left the EAA after many years of membership increasingly seeing the US as an introspective irrelevance to the rest of the world.

[englishal]

To be fair to the US, flying there is an absolute pleasure... at least it was. ATC are very professional, I have never once been told that they were too busy to deal with a VFR request, aircraft rental is good value for money, and it was a genuinely enjoyable experience.

Its sad to see all these knee jerk reactions which will no doubt lead to loss of trade from overseas, loss of jobs for US citizens, possibly loss of recognition of US certificates in overseas aircraft, and a general clamp down on US GA.....all because of a bunch of f*cking jerks, who had some de-ranged belief. Even sadder still is the fact that German intelligence agencies issued a warning to the US prior to these individuals entering the US, and then the US authorities, in their mickey mouse way, managed to royally f*ck up and lose these people....

Sorry, BRL, getting carried away, if you feel that this post should be moderated, then thats ok by me. I just feel strongly that the US should not penalise innocent people for the actions of a stupid few and the incompetence of their own government.

Cheers
EA:(

[411A]

Pilots in other countries must realise that the USA has a very large and active general aviation scene (many times larger than most other countries, combined) and so can restrict whom they like, for any reason whatsoever. Europeans especially (UK in particular) have thrown darts at the FAA license for many years, believing that it is not nearly as "scholastic" as those in Europe. Yet they now cry crocodile tears because they must now take a practical flight test for the FAA certificate.
For these folks, I can only say that the USA has led the world in things aeronautical for many years, and this is not like to change anytime soon...so get used to it.
OTOH, once you have that FAA license, you can fly where you like (except few restricted areas), when you like, at a price that others from afar can only dream about.
So, come and enjoy, and the weather out Arizona way has 330 days of sunshine each and every year.;)

[rotated]

Amen to that, 411A, especially the part about the flying costs. 100LL is INCREDIBLY expensive here, as are annuals and just about everything else to keep the pig in the air...

Anyone know what happens to an American pilot who gets his ticket overseas? We're moving back to the USA this fall and I'm not sure what's up.

[Captain Airclues]

I agree with 411A. No competent pilot should ever fear a flight test, and any pilot who says that he would not benefit from a couple of hours with an instructor is either gods gift to aviation, or is a fool. The extra costs of the training and test can be recovered in a very short time when you consider the difference in hourly rates between the US and Europe.
I also agree with 411A about Arizona. I have spent many happy hours flying out of Falcon Field. Clear blue skies, spectacular scenery, helpful ATC and Met Briefers, no landing fees, and above all cheap aircraft hire.
Let's not make too much of this. Just go and take the test and then enjoy the cheap flying.

Airclues

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

You know the FAA are just giving it back to us.......

I mean, all we had to do was show our valid licence and get an FAA, however to convert to a CAA/JAA no such thing.

Of course, it was easier with the CAA but there were the 2 writtens to take. Now of course the JAA mandate the skill test too.

I always thought that the FAA would start to see this as not respecting their licence and that they would act. Well, now they have; it just needed something to move them along.

[Stampe]

Facts whats your problem if you have a valid FAA licence the CAA recognise that (as per ICAO policy) outright you can fly a G reg. aircraft DAY/VFR on that US ticket.Its the US that is out of step with ICAO policy, the FAA certificate issued on the basis of an ICAO licence is what most other countries would call a validation.If I want to convert my UK licence to an FAA one to stand alone I,ve got to do the flight test and the writtens so whats the difference.My present FAA licence is only valid if my Uk one is fully valid.Best decide which licencing system you want to be in then get it and remain within that system.I,ve never liked gate-crashing other peoples parties.!!

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

The CAA allow you to fly G reg within the UK - however you are stricted to flying only in the UK unless you are flying an N reg.

In addition, you may not fly IR even if you have an FAA IR, only if you are flying an N reg.

Kind of resticted!!!!!

In the US you did get a resticted PPL based on your JAA privs. Should you have wanted IR privs then you just need to take the poxy written; this is a way to make sure that you understand their system.

There are pros and cons with both systems.

PS I was merely stating facts not starting a p***ing contest so keep your hair on;)

[StrateandLevel]

The CAA allow you to fly G reg within the UK - however you are stricted to flying only in the UK unless you are flying an N reg.

Not true. The French permit you to fly over France, no doubt other States will as well.

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

hmmmmm.........

that was not so 2 years ago....

maybe its changed......

You have hard facts?

[GoneWest]

FNF - Another thought that the FAA has not thought of is a student pillot certificate. An easier way to fly is to get one of these, couple of hours dual ie the equivalent of a Flight review, except this is for the solo review for the Instructor to endorse for solo. Then the pilot can fly on his/her own, acruing hours P1 as long as the Instructor endorses the P1. There does not appear to be any restrictions on this???

I would think that any school adopting this policy is leaving itself wide open to trouble!!

Expecting a CFI (who is quite often a foreign national themselves) to sign off a qualified foreign pilot to fly solo on a student certificate with no intention of training towards the FAA licence that the student certificate is valid for - unless they are starting the course with solo navigation instead of effects of controls. ???

I can imagine the repercussions if somebody is ramp checked and asked for their log book (to check endorsements) - then the FAA man finds over forty hours of training and a flight test - followed by a deliberate attempt to bend the rules on foreign pilots flying in Federal airspace.

[Fujiflyer]

How much of an issue is this really, obviously now you need to do a flight test + writtens, whereas previously you had to validate your (FAA) licence with a biennial test (which had a pass / fail, unlike our JAA equivalent)? What additional benefits arise, if any? I understand the normal FAA PPL gives you night flying privileges. Fairly obviously the additional training you will require must be useful in as much as being forced to gain experience in their airspace, with an instructor.

More worryingly, could we be about to see a few more changes in the FAA such as restrictions on N reg ownership in the UK? :( :(

Fujiflyer

[englishal]

A couple of points....

biennial test (which had a pass / fail, unlike our JAA equivalent)?

For the FAA BFR there is no pass / fail, it is the equivalent of the 1hr needed to re-validate a JAA PPL by experience route.

Secondly, although it probably is possible to fly to France in a G reg on an FAA licence, I understood that you needed to gain permission first. This maybe just a formality of course, in my experience the French are pretty laid back.

I have known of CFI's endorsing 'student' foreign pilots to fly in the US. Indeed, I was endorsed to fly at night, I don't have a JAA NR, but have flown loads of hours at night in the US, mostly for my FAA IR training. The instructor was quite happy for me to fly at night, and as I was also working towards my CPL, which requires night flying, the only ways was to either get endorsed, or get a JAA NR.

After a bit of investigating, I believe that these new restrictions only apply to new issues, if you already have an FAA PPL based on ICAO licence, then you will not need to complete any sort of GFT....When I have something concrete I'll post it here.

Cheers
EA:)

[WestWind1950]

Fujiflier

there are already extensive restrictions to owning a N reg aircraft outside the US, just not many seem to know that! I don't even want to guess how many are being illegally run over here in Europe.

Earlier in this thread there was the discussion about picture ID... formerly, the European certificates had a passport photo attached to them , the FCL does not! I think that pretty stupid and makes the new FCL licences too easy to forge! We don't have FCL in Germany yet, been pushed off every half-year now for three years...ugh. The FAA certificates never had a photo in them and I think that kind of stupid....

I myself have an FAA based on my German PPL...glad that I didn't make plans to visit over there this year.....

Another point: I always thought it rather funny, that a non-German speaking person without any knowledge of the German language or even knowledge of German airlaw but with a FAA certicicate can fly on a N reg airplane without any restrictions, but a German with an FAA license is unable to fly a D reg airplane in the same airspace, unless he gets a German PPL (written law test, 300 km cross-country, etc). Kind of rediculous...but that's the way it is.....

keep flying!
WestWind1950

[Fujiflyer]

englishal

I stand corrected. I had thought there was a "fail" option available on the biennial checkout. As far as the FAA licence privileges go I was (and still are) particularly interested in doing a FAA IR so I can fly IFR in Europe in a N reg a/c. A bit of pre-work for the FAA PPL will hardly be a big deal though compared to the IR work. :rolleyes:

With regard to the licence issue - I got my temporary licence in April of this year when I was in San Jose, CA. I have been awaiting the full version which should have taken 3 months. I wonder what will happen now :(


WestWind1950

We (our syndicate) were thinking of putting our plane onto N reg through a trust. Is there anything to be aware of other than the information which is fairly readily available anyway?

Thanks for the replies,

Fujiflyer :) :)

[GoneWest]

Fuji...

I'm interested to know how you would run a trust to operate an N reg aircraft in Europe.

I had another look at FAR Part 47.3 - which said that (not a word for word quote) any aircraft on the US register must be owned by a US Citizen or Resident Alien............or a "Corporation, Not US Citizen".

If the latter, i.e. "Corporation, Not US Citizen" then the aircraft is required to spend a minimum of 60% of its flying hours within Federal Airspace (under FAR 47.9).

FAR 47.9 (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr47_00.html)

[englishal]

Fuji,

If you have got your temp certificate, you should receive your certificate within 4 months. As you have already got the PPL IOB of ICAO PPL you should be ok.

The guy (forget his name) who does FAA ratings etc in Norwich runs Trust companies to keep A/C on the N reg, cost is about £350ish per year I believe, which is much better value than some. Keeps you informed of any pertinent AD's etc.

I think that N reg aircraft in the UK fall under 47.7, which states:-

(iii) If any beneficiary under the trust, including any person whose security interest in the aircraft is incorporated in the trust, is not a U.S. citizen or resident alien, an affidavit from each trustee stating that the trustee is not aware of any reason, situation, or relationship (involving beneficiaries or other persons who are not U.S. citizens or resident aliens) as a result of which those persons together would have more than 25 percent of the aggregate power to influence or limit the exercise of the trustee's authority.

(3) If persons who are neither U.S. citizens nor resident aliens have the power to direct or remove a trustee, either directly or indirectly through the control of another person, the trust instrument must provide that those persons together may not have more than 25 percent of the aggregate power to direct or remove a trustee. Nothing in this paragraph prevents those persons from having more than 25 percent of the beneficial interest in the trust.

Cheers
EA;)

[englishal]

Just a bit more info....

Full marks to the FAA and AOPA. I emailed them Sunday, got a reply from the FAA monday, and a reply from AOPA Wednesday am. Not bad when you consider the time difference, certainly beats the CAA which took over a month to even reply.......

The general view on the FAA PPL based on ICAO licence issue is that anyone currently holding one of these is still ok to fly, but no new ratings can be added without passing a minimum of a PPL check flight. AOPA seem to think that a UK passport (or any country come to that) is sufficient to satisfy the requirement to carry 'Government issued ID'..........................

From FTO I use in the US->

Yes the FAA last Friday stopped issuing comp cert for the time being, If you have one already you can still use it with out a problem, but we can not change it ie add a rating. I forgot your exact quals but you can go straight to commercial with out the PPL...............................

and from AOPA ->

Since you already hold a US certificate you should not have any problems.

But, we do not yet know what changes are planned for pilots operating under 14CFR61.75. In addition, the guidance contained in FAA Order 8700.1, General Aviation Operations Inspector's Handbook, chapter 29, is currently under revision. AFS-760 and AFS-800 are in the process of drafting a Notice to reflect a new process for issuing private pilot certificates under section 61.75. The Notice will supersede chapter 29 of FAA Order 8700.1, and will contain detailed guidance to the FSDO work force on the new process to use when issuing 14 CFR section 61.75 private pilot license.

Do you have a US driver’s license? If not, the passport is a government issued ID, just not our government.

Thank you for contacting AOPA's Aviation Services

Cheers
EA:)

[West Coast]

To say the flight review cannot be failed is a half truth. When I was an active flight instructor here in San Diego I refused to sign off a number of pilots who came to me for a review. Others were told they needed additional training. A large majority came for the review with only a short time left on the current review. No signiture, no fly, its semantics to say you can't fail, either way if you don't perform you don't fly.

[411A]

West Coast

Still being a "wise guy", I see.
Why...IF you were a CFI did you not provide additional instruction, so that these guys could go on their way with added instruction and the proper endorsement?
Take the money and run...perhaps?:rolleyes:

[West Coast]

someone must have rattled his cage, or the meds are wearing off....

Well there 411, It dang sure wasn't the money, the boss got the lions share of dual instruction rates. Those that passed a representitive number of PTS tasks were signed off and on their way. Those that had problems I deemed easily fixable( usually a failure in the one hour of ground required) were fixed. Those who came with problems that required a number of hours of dual to fix were not signed off, but were referred to others for the fix. I choose not to do it myself to avoid any appearance of improper conduct(read: milking the guy for money/time) While you take some sort of perverse satisfaction out of sending some guy to a remedial sim for not having a chart out and then conducting the sim yourself(that is if its true and your really a pilot) I see such as a conflict and refused to do things that others would question as unprofessional. I doubt that will satisfy you, but that is the gods honest truth to your friendly inquiry.

[Julian]

Just to add to the debate about flying IFR in France on an FAA ticket, I was advised that you have to ask permission EVERY time you overfly on an IFR flightplan, its not a standing endorsement once you have got it. Sounds fun!!!!

[englishal]

I agree that an instructor should not sign someone off for the hell of it, if they cannot fly. As long as you can fly reasonably well, then you will not 'fail' a BFR. A BFR is meant to make sure you're safe to fly, not perfect.......

Same with JAR, you are required to fly 1 hr with an instructor in the last 12 months of a 2 year period. You cannot 'fail' this flight, but the instructor can abort the flight before the hour is up, if you are unsafe, and hence you 'fail'.

Julian....do you mean IFR in an N reg? Sounds like french crap if it is ;) What about flying IFR, in IMC with an FAA ticket in a G reg plane :rolleyes: :D

Cheers
EA:)

[Julian]

EA,

Yes sorru should have clarified, flying IR in an N Reg on an FAA ticket...Phew!

Yep, French doo doo.....

[bookworm]

I was advised that you have to ask permission EVERY time you overfly [France] on an IFR flightplan...flying IR in an N Reg on an FAA ticket.

Where did you get that one from, Julian? France has a duty under the Chicago Convention to respect FAA licences and ratings for flight in N-reg aircraft (except where those licences are issued to its own citizens).

[There are only two sorts of advice: good advice and free advice. :)]

[Aussie Andy]

Glad my US private pilot certificate arrived in the post this week ;) No flight review required by the way, I just went into an FBO in Las Vegas and was issued with a temporary certificate, now superseded by the permanent one. As I went flying with a buddy in his aircraft, no FBO was involved - and no flight review.

[Keef]

________________________________________________

I was advised that you have to ask permission EVERY time you overfly [France] on an IFR flightplan...flying IR in an N Reg on an FAA ticket
_________________________________________________

I reckon United and Delta and American must be pretty hacked off about that. I wonder if the US requires Air France to get permission for each flight into the US under IFR? They do tend to go for "reciprocity" like that.

Reckon I'm going to be testing that rule soon...

[englishal]

No flight review required by the way

Do you not need a BFR endorsed in your log from the time you get your FAA PPL? When I added some additional ratings to my FAA certificate based on ICAO PPL, the examiner was 'surprised' that I had no BFR endorsed in my logbook, even though I had held the certificate less than 2 years....? He reckoned I should have had a BFR from the moment I got the certificate...which I did really as I had a club checkout, just not logged as BFR.

One of the CFI's soon rectified this.

Cheers
EA:)

[GoneWest]

An interesting change of phrase appeared today - from AOPA..

FAA DELIVERS BLOW TO FOREIGN PILOTS
Foreign pilots can no longer obtain a U.S. private pilot certificate based on a foreign pilot license. The FAA last week sent a notice to all of its flight standards district offices, instructing them to immediately stop issuing private pilot licenses under FAR 61.75. Security officials prompted this restrictive action, which the FAA considers to be temporary while the agency develops new security screening procedures. Currently, about 2,800 foreign pilots per year obtain U.S. certificates under 61.75. "The notice does not preclude foreign students from taking flight training and testing in the United States. However, we anticipate that restrictions on foreign student training could be implemented in the near future," said Lance Nuckolls, AOPA director of certification policy.

[englishal]

Wonder whether this will be foreign students training for FAA ratings, or foreign students training for any sort of licence?

Better apply for my green card I suppose

Cheers

EA;)

[MLS-12D]

This is from the Soaring Society of America website:

"Foreign Pilots No Longer Able to Receive U.S. Flight Privileges

"Effective immediately the FAA has announced suspension of issuing U.S. private pilot certificates on the basis of a foreign license. The ban on issuance is temporary pending development of new procedures and rules related to background checks for the foreign visitors.

"This emergency order has a particularly negative effect on gliding operations that depend on foreign visitors as an important part of their summer business. SSA President Larry Sanderson issued the following statement, 'This is an unfortunate example of how a well-intended rule reaches out to hurt soaring. Gliders pose no strategic threat and it is regrettable that we are included in this emergency order. SSA will work closely with the professionals at FAA to mitigate the negative impact this ruling has for our industry.'"

:( :( :(

[englishal]

Just to clarify...you CAN still fly in the US, if you ALREADY hold an FAA certificate (based on ICAO licence or otherwise).

Dunno what the problem is really, they (AOPA and Government) have already determined that GA posses no threat to Nuclear power plants, and as was seen from that idiot in Florida, not much damage to buildings.

The problem with sept 11th, was 4 large jets, on IFR flight plans, were hijacked. Ok, so some of the terrorists involved learned to fly in the US, but even so, someone can learn to fly in Outer Mongolia and still achieve the same results.

GA NO THREAT TO NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, REPORT SAYS
A new report commissioned by AOPA has concluded that general aviation aircraft do not pose a serious threat to the nation's nuclear power plants. The report, by internationally recognized nuclear safety and security expert Robert M. Jefferson, said that the crash of a GA aircraft wouldn't cause a dangerous release of radiation. "Following the events of September 11, some expressed fears that a small aircraft might 'attack' a nuclear plant," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "We sought out an expert to determine if that fear were real. The Jefferson report makes it clear that general aviation aircraft are not effective weapons and small aircraft aren't a significant threat to the safety of the public when it comes to nuclear power plants."

...TWO SENATORS AGREE THAT GA POSES NO THREAT
Apparently some U.S. senators agree. In a recent Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing on security of nuclear facilities, Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo.) stated that, "Commercial nuclear plants are probably the most physically secure and least vulnerable of our nation's industrial infrastructure." Bond went on to say, "I urge all of you, if you haven't seen it, to view the videotape of a government test where they crashed an F-4 jet fighter into a containment wall at nearly 500 miles per hour. The jet was obliterated and the 6-foot wall was penetrated only 2 inches." At the same hearing, Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) submitted the report commissioned by AOPA concluding that GA aircraft do not threaten nuclear power plants.

Cheers
EA;)

PS I see that 2 US warships, hanging around my town in the South of the UK for the past month have suddenly left today....could this be a sign of things to come....:confused:

[Julian]

Bookworm, apparently the French dont like you having an FAA cert issued off the back of a JAA one. I have only taken G regs so far over the water but when I try it in an N I will let you know if I have any hassle :)

Quite right...I think Delta WOULD have something to say about it...

Vive La France!

[Keef]

I used to fly to France regularly in an N-reg C177, using my FAA reciprocal PPL, and never had the slightest trouble.

Never got a "ramp check", mind.

Frankly, I can't imagine it being an issue.

[slim_slag]

englishal

Better apply for my green card I suppose

Bit off topic but...

You don't want to do that unless you want to work/live in the US. You will become liable to pay US tax on worldwide income (i.e.UK) and although there are tax-treaties to prevent double taxation, you really do not want the hassle of yearly US tax returns. IRS can be very agressive, you don't need that either.

Looks like we are on the way to background checks for all FAA certificate holders......

[englishal]

You will become liable to pay US tax on worldwide income (i.e.UK)

Yea, good point. I have had dealings with the IRS in the past, I worked in the states several years ago. Its like catching Malaria, the shadow of the IRS never goes away, just when I think they've forgotten about me, new documents arrive through the door....;) (don't understand half of them either:))

EA:D

[Left Wing Down]

This is the latest info from the FAA website http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp
specifically: http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp#Verify

"Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification

Effective July 23, 2002, persons applying for a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign license under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75, using a pilot certificate issued under 61.75 to apply for a commercial pilot certificate under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.123 (h) or applying for an airline transport pilot certificate issued under the provisions of 14 CFR, Part 61. Section 61.153 (d) (3) must have the validity and currency of the foreign license and medical certificate or endorsement verified by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) that issued those certificates, before making application for an FAA certificate.

You may complete the Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification form (http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf) and FAX or mail it to the Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760. When verification is received from the CAA, you will receive written notification that a copy has been forwarded to the Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) you designated in your request. A listing of FSDO (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/index.cfm) locations and telephone numbers is available from our customer services menu.

The verification is valid for 60 days. You may make application for a 61.75 certificate issued on the basis of your foreign license or an airline transport pilot certificate at the designated FSDO during that 60 day period. If you prefer to write a letter, it must contain all of the information shown on the form.

Mailing Address: FAA
Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760
PO Box 25082
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0082
FAX number: (405) 954-4105"

Seems like it's up to your home country CAA now...

[Left Wing Down]

For those with an existing FAA Certificate based on a non-USA license: the FAA don't always send you a new card with your new home address if you move - "A new certificate is not required when updating your address and will not be issued automatically".

I picked up my FAA Cert. last year based on my UK PPL well before September 11th 2001 no problem. I sent in the change of address form in May 2002 but never received a new Cert. (although they did when I moved last year). Searching using http://registry.faa.gov/amquery.asp pulled up my FAA pilot record with the new address, so they obviously have it on record. Thought they might have been holding on to it since the rule change, but probably not... :)

[Aussie Andy]

that link doesn't work...

[Ace Rimmer]

I talked to the FAA press office about this (they called me back, take note CAA) and the situation is pretty much as outlined above.
Basically the new rules require an applicant to fill out the appropriate forms (avialible from the FAA website), send them off to OK City along with a copy of your licence and a photo ID (passport will do the trick) they will then verify the information with the issuing authority (oh dear the CAA best allow plenty of time) if everything is in order OKC will then send a letter of authorisation to the FSDO you want to have the FAA licence issued.
This letter is valid for 60 days so it would seem that timing is of the essence (of course you will need the oridginals of the licence, medical photo id etc).

[Wireless]

I have been out of town for a while (giving the cave an untimely spring clean), so could you shed some light as to wether one can still obtain higher certificates such as an IR and CPL on the back of the "new" validated FAA PPL.


Cheers Bill

[Pete O'Tewbe]

I am attempting to obtain a FAA PLA(A)/IR on the strength of my UK CPL(A)/IR. I faxed the form referred to above to the FAA. The following day (CAA please note), they sent a faxed reply to me stating "....we [the FAA] were advised that due to the constraints of United Kingdom law, they [the CAA] are unable to answer our verifications queries at this time......"

I have sent an email to Handbrake House asking what I should do. I will let you know the outcome. Meanwhile, don't hold your breath, folks. :confused:

[GoneWest]

Pete - I've been waiting for that bit of poo to hit the fan.

There was a message from the Ministry of Planes (on the SRG website) explaining that, in the eyes of the law, the licence details are subject to the Data Protection Act and the Medical details are subject to "Doctor/Patient Confidentiality" - and, as such, they would not be able to supply either to the FAA

I've just had a really quick glance at their website (to post the relevant url for you) but couldn't find it in the rush.

[englishal]

This is from a friend of mine, who is arranging flight training in the US. Already holds a FAA PPL based on JAA PPL, and this is a fax from the US Embassy in London.....

> "If you are to receive flight training in the U.S. you will require
> an F-1, M-1 or J-1 visa. You should contact the flight school
> which will provide you with either an I-20F or M, or an IAP-66
> which is required to apply for the visa.

> If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build
> up flight hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be
> eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if
> otherwise qualified, since the introduction of the Applicability of
> Aviation and Transportation Security Act, we would recommend > that
> you apply for a B-2 visa. When applying for the visa and entry
> into the U.S. you should furnish a letter from the flight school
> stating the type of aircraft on which you will receive training and
> the certified take-off weight of the aircraft."

(cheers Max).

Rgds
EA:)

[Cahlibahn]

From CAA website (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_flying_in_USA.pdf)

Intending to Fly in the USA
To fly an N-registered aircraft in the USA requires the pilot to hold an FAA Pilot Certificate. The FAA does not issue validations of foreign flight crew licences. In the past, production of a valid ICAO pilot’s licence and current medical certificate to any FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) would usually result in the
immediate issue of a Temporary Airman’s Certificate enabling the pilot to exercise the privileges of a PPL in the USA. THIS PRACTICE HAS NOW CEASED.

Prior to issue of the pilot certificate, the FAA now require the Authority that issued the licence to verify the authenticity of the licence, its currency and the validity of the medical certificate. This verification is done centrally by the FAA Pilot Certification Branch (AFS-760) in Oklahoma City. While appearing a simple procedure, for the UK it will produce significant problems because of data protection legislation, medical confidentiality and the volume of requests for verification. Last year the FAA issued nearly 3000 PPLs on the basis of UK issued licences alone.

The UK CAA is working with the FAA to find a quick and simple solution to these problems. In the meantime, a pilot applying to an FAA FSDO will not be issued with a certificate without an inevitable delay, which may be some weeks.

It is appreciated that the new FAA procedures may cause serious problems for those intending to fly in the USA in the near future. We are working to resolve these problems as soon as possible and will advise of any progress through the CAA Website. There is nothing to be gained by trying to contact the CAA or FAA citing
special circumstances to try and speed up the process

[ETOPS773]

Just got my reply back from the US embassy re hour building visa requirements. it says...

If you have a private pilots license and merely wish to build up flight hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program,if otheriwse qualified, since the introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security Act,we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa. When applying for the visa and entry into the U.S. you should furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft on which you will receive training and the certified take-off weight of the aircraft.

Detailed information on visa application procedures is available from our website at www.usembassy.org.uk


So..thats that question answered.You hour build,you get a B-2!!

[long final]

I have been away for a few days, and this one is close to my heart.

Can, if I can actually get one, then add a CPL rating to a FAA PPL?
If not, does anyone have any info regarding this issue.
( If I have missed this info in the pervious posts, my apologies - had a long day )

Regards
LF
:rolleyes:

[andrewc]

This one caught me while I was away in the US on holiday
last week, hoping to get my Temporary Airman's Certificate
before I came back.

Irritatingly I don't even want to fly in the US but simply
fly my N-reg aircraft (SR-22) in Europe - I can fly it in the
UK on my JAR PPL(A).

Any suggestions / comments welcome but my options
seem to be,

a) Find an aeronautical equivalent of a flag of convenience
country, re-register there and get the clearence to fly that
type in my JAR-PPL.

b) Move my aircraft to the G-register - great expense and
bureaucratic wrangling because it is not UK type certified.

c) Move my aircraft to an EU register who have already
type certified it - Netherlands are a possibility

d) Get a full US license (quickly before any more rules change)

-- Andrew

[Gin Slinger]

Has anyone actually managed to get an FAA cert issued on the basis of their ICAO licence since this rule change??

[dublinpilot]

I've applied for mine about 10 days ago.

Wonder if the IAA will have a problem with data protection act. Hope not.

I'll let you guys know when I hear anything.

[Gin Slinger]

dublinpilot - Data Protection Act is UK national legislation, therefore wouldn't be an issue to the IAA.

[dublinpilot]

We have a very similar act here of the same name.

[Gin Slinger]

dublinpilot - I bet it's not operated in such an officious manner though...

[Fujiflyer]

Pleased to say my FAA PPL has just arrived in the post today :) :)

[Gin Slinger]

FF - is that a full FAA PPL or one given on the back of a JAA/CAA one? ( - in which case, how long did it take to come through?)

[dublinpilot]

FF

Do you mean one on the basis of your JAA/CAA licence. If so were you under the new proceedures where you have to get the authenticity of your licence verified.

I thought under the new proceedures, you had to turn up at the Flight Standards District Office, and that they could not post it to you.

Hoping to be corrected on that though:D :D

[dublinpilot]

I contacted the FAA last week to find out when I was likely to get my licence verified.

They said that they send to Irish Aviation Authority day after they got my fax.

I contacted person in IAA yesterday, who said they replied same day. They send email again yesterday. I contacted FAA last night and they confirmed they got verification.

Got email from FAA saying they had sent approval to local Flight Standards District Office, and that I would have to go there in person to get the FAA licence.

Seems to work! I'll let you guys know if I had any difficulty at the FSDO.

[Pete O'Tewbe]

Hello Folks

There appears to be movement on the FAA license issue front. Check out the "What's New" bit of the Personnel Licensing page.


"Intending to Fly in the USA 25 September 2002

To fly an N-registered aircraft in the USA requires the pilot to hold an FAA Pilot Certificate. The FAA does not issue validations of foreign flight crew licences. In the past, production of a valid ICAO pilot licence and current medical certificate to any FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) would usually result in the immedicate issue of a Temporary Airman’s Certificate enabling the pilot to exercise the privileges of a PPL in the USA. This practice has now ceased.

Prior to issue of the pilot certificate, the FAA now require the Authority that issued the licence to verify the authenticity of the licence, its currency and the validity of the medical certificate. This verification is done centrally by the FAA Airmen Certification Branch (AFS-760) in Oklahoma City. While appearing a simple procedure, for the UK it produces significant problems because of data protection legislation, medical condidentiality and the volume of requests for verification. In 2001 the FAA issued nearly 3000 PPLs on the basis of UK issued licences alone.

The UK CAA is working closely with the FAA and together we have agreed a relatively simple verification procedure. The attached UK CAA authorisation form http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1160.pdf must be completed by each individual and sent direct to the UK CAA. The FAA verification form must be completed and sent to the Airmen Certification Branch.

The FAA will then formally request verification information from the UK CAA who, upon receipt of the authorisation form SRG/1160, will reply direct to the Oklahoma City office, resulting in the issue of the appropriate FAA documentation to the individual. Both the UK CAA and FAA forms must be completed in all cases.

It is appreciated that the new FAA procedures may cause delays in the processing of paperwork for those intending to fly in the USA."



Note the 15 squid fee for this service.

Bon Chance, mes braves!

[advancing_blade]

Thanks peteOt

Thats the best bit of news in a while. Thought that would be yet another exam /flight test for nothing.:)

[Gin Slinger]

I've got some good news.

This morning, I got a nice letter from the FAA in Oklahoma City saying they are going to give me an airmen's certificate on the back of my JAA PPL.

I can now look forward to enjoying my 2 weeks of flying around Florida without the prospect of the unnecessary expense and hassle of getting a pukka FAA PPL.

[Yankee]

Slinger

Can you confirm whether you will still have to present yourself to a FAA office in the states to get your certificate, or will Oakalahoma send you it before you travel.

[andrewc]

Yankee,

I'm just going through the process...you apply to Oklahoma FAA,
naming an FSDO which you intend to attend to get the
documentation issued.

They contact the CAA, whose palms you have to grease with
£15 of silver to get them to admit that they know of you.
Then if the bureaucratic protocol exchanges work, the
FAA will send an validation document confirming your details
to the FSDO of your choice.

This then gives you a window of opportunity to go to the
FSDO - not forgetting to make an appointment - with your
passport, medical and license and hopefully your FAA certificate
emerges from the process.

In fairness to FAA they have been giving me updates on what
stage the application has reached by email.

So yes you still have to make the US FSDO visit to complete
the issue of the certificate.

-- Andrew