FAA Certifcates issued on basis of ICAO licence - STOPPED

[GoneWest]

http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/forpilot.htm

...says there is a complete, yet temporary(?), ban on the FAA offices (FSDOs) issuing FAA Private Pilot Licences on the basis of Foreign Pilot Certificates.

All the DPE's (Flight Examiners) in the area - that were tasked with doing this job, post 9/11 - have been contacted and told to stop doing conversions WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT.

No news, just yet, as to whether an ICAO licensed pilot may take the FAA check ride for a full, stand alone, licence (without doing a course of training).

This ban, apparantly, applies to all FSDOs nationwide.

[Speedbird48]

Gonewest is quite correct. The edict came down from on high this morning and will stay in effect until a new procedure is pubished at a later date.

I hope this doesn't mess up too many vacations.

[Gin Slinger]

I'm sure Americans all round the world will sleep easier thanks to this masterpiece of bureaucratic genius...

Is this the dawn of new spirit of McCarthyism?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Nice one FAA ... I presume it's got something to do with yet another half crocked ill conceived 'security' measure .... I mean, I'm sure all Osama's next wave of potential hijackers will be really gutted, now that they can no longer automatically convert their Afghanistani PPL's to US ones :rolleyes: :mad:

[erjdriver]

So much for a possible harmonization of licenses.
Flight schools here are empty. This decision will force more FBOs to post the "for sale" sign.


PEACE

[DesiPilot]

I see concerns and feel the same way myself. I was talking to our local D.P.E. and he says its just the tip of the iceberg.
Today FAA came out with new ruling that no addtional FAA rating can be added on to an FAA licence issued on the basis of foreing licence conversion!
I know it doesnt sound too bad, but all the wannabes out there hoping to do their FAA IR will have to do a full/stand alone PPL before you can take the FAA IR flight test. Also you cannot be issued with seaplane rating unless you hold a full FAA PPL.
Of course this also is temporary and in effect until further notice.

I hope things doesnt get any worse.

-Jatin

[G-SPOTs Lost]

I have a US PPl issued on the back of my CAA PPL with a US Multi rating, My License says "ME Piston US Test Passed"

This i'm led to believe "legitimised" my FAA PPL. I was looking to come across and do a CPL course, I have also been studying for the US CPL exam.

With me doing the Multi rating in the US and it already issued, can I do the CPL test? I have well over 700 hours and have an unrestricted Instructors rating on my UK CPL/IR.

Does this effectively stop me or due to my experience can I come over and do the test outright anyway?

Can the US IR be issued on the back of an ICAO IR with just an exam as previously?

[Kenny]

G-SPOTs Lost,

I'm pretty sure you'll find that you'll be able to continue to fly in the US on your current certificate. When you take the CPL flight test here, you'll get a new certificate that isn't based on your CAA one. At least that what happened with me when I did my CPL flight test over here.

As far as the IR is concerned, I don't think the FAA has ever issued an FAA IR on the back of an ICAO IR without both the flight and exam having been completed. The only way to get an FAA IR is to do the CPL flight test and then do the IR. That way you won't be getting another rating added to a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign one.

Take it easy,

Kenny

[bumpfich]

Just want to be 100% clear on this .....

Does this mean that anyone who already has U.S. Private Pilot Certificate issued on the basis of their ICAO licence, can no longer use it? Or is it just the issuing of new ones, as appears to be the case?

[Semaphore Sam]

Do European JAR authorities, or individual country-based authorities, give private (or any other) license levels based on FAA licenses? Is there equivilency here? For FAA licenses/ratings to be given based on recognition of other nations'/regions licenses/ratings, there should be equivilent recognition of FAA licenses in these countries/regions.

[foghorn]

No, in the UK the CAA will not give you a PPL based upon your FAA or ICAO PPL....

.... because you don't need one at all - you get full Private priviledges with the aircraft type/class privilges of your ICAO licence with no additional paperwork. The only limitation is that an ICAO/FAA IR only confers UK IMC priviliges (therefore higgher approach minima and no Class A allowed).

Can't comment on the other European countries as licence recognition is a matter for national legislation - it is not harmonised via the JAA.

So there is lack of equivilency. An FAA certificate holder can just show up in at a UK club, hire a G-reg aircraft and fly here*, but I now can't hire N-reg in the US off the back of my JAA (or for that matter SA) licence.

*obviously the club may have its own checkride requirements but that happens the world over.

[Baldie Man]

I thought there was a 5 hour conversion from FAA PPL to JAA PPL Foggy?

Planning to go to Florida to do my FAA PPL + hours build very soon. Anything I should know before signing any papers?

Cheers,

BM.

[gorky]

DO NOT PANIC,
there are every years million of visitors coming to the US.
Some come to fly.So think now, all these tourists can not rent anymore an aircraft for 5 or 10 hours to enjoy a freedom sky.
What will happen? less money for the US, schools and manufacter...
It's not so much money!, I agree, but since the JAA-FCL, US schools have lost thousand of Students, since the 9/11 schools are loosings thousand of Arab Students, since the non ICAO validation license, they are loosing thousand of tourists and the list will continue until a certain point the congress will say:STOP!
just relax guys, The US have a lot to do right now, they have to clean the house and to start on new base.INS, FBI,CIA...some gov office like the INS can disapear in a couple of months.The FAA has to change things.
How do you will react if some stupid jerks take a B767 of british airways and crash on your big ben, or worse, on your queen palace...I am sure you will do the same thing!
when this happen (9/11)I was in the USA. It pissed me off!
so guys, be patient, new rules are coming and everything will be better for us, european pilots.
:)

[foghorn]

Baldie man,

You're quite right (and I'm technically wrong), you can actually convert if you want to add to your licence collection, however my point on equivalency still stands, you do not need to convert your licence to fly a G-reg aircraft privately if you have an ICAO/FAA licence. However you currently cannot fly N-reg aircraft off the back of your JAA/ICAO licence, nor can you convert (presumably without doing the full PPL course).

As gorky says its a temporary overreaction and no doubt lobbying from FTOs that are losing overseas business will soon make them change their minds.

cheers!
foggy.

[Baldie Man]

Foggy,

Sorry, I'm a little confused here. Not used to all the rigmarole of conversions and foreign training.
It is still possible to go to the USA and do their FAA PPL, come back to England and convert to JAA PPL isn't it though? They wouldn't stop me doing that would they?
Edited as I've just re-read your post and it's answered one of my questions. It must be getting late here!

Oh and Gorky, you wouldn't be Ronchonner in disguise would you? Your style is very much in his ilk. ;)

BM.

[WestWind1950]

In Germany only certificates from other European countries are recognised one to one... for a conversion of an american certificate you must pass a German air law exam, plus fly a 300km flight with an instructor, landing at least 2 fields, plus you must have a flight into a aerodrome in controlled airspace....and a few other things.... we don't have FCL yet, hopefully we never will as it'll make flying schools and instructors an indangered species..... :rolleyes:
as long as the new FCL regulations are still hanging over our heads, the German regulators are not changing our old, out-of-date rules...
wait and see what the future brings......


keep flying!

WestWind1950

[GonvilleBromhead]

Any US FTO's care to comment on this ? Is the general feeling they (FAA) will revoke this temporary measure due in part to business suffering or not ?

[GoneWest]

I spoke with my FAA colleagues on Saturday.

They are worried, in the local office, about the financial aspects of this in Florida - and are pressuring to get it soretd out.

More will unfold this week. I'll let ya know - on here.

[chimbu warrior]

I am interested in the outcome of this, as I am considering doing a US ATP. Does this mean I have to do full course?

[MLS-12D]

Yep, I can really see this one hurting the FBOs in Florida, California, etc. What a drag ... and how pointless too. Another self-inflicted wound, and another small victory for the terrorists. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I wish I could be as confident as gorky, but I am far from sure that "everything will be better for us" ... the best that we can hope for is that the old rules will be reinstated.

BTW, it's not clear to me how the FAA can on its own authority simply decide that it is no longer going to observe FARs sec. 61.75 (admittedly that section is not very elegantly drafted and arguably implies that the FAA has some element of discretion).

[Gin Slinger]

As may have been pointed out earlier, this isn't the end of the world as they will recognise the training already in your log book, so if you have an ICAO PPL [with night rating in the case of a JAA PPL], it can be just the case of sitting the written exam and doing a flight test.

A pain in the butt none the less!

[Julian]

I got this response from the school/rental FTO I use in CA. Basically it seems if you have the quals already you are ok, if not you are stuffed!

Hi Julian,
The situation at this time is anyone with a comp FAA cert is OK to continue.
They are not issuing new ones for a while.
The next problem is we can not change a cert, ie add a rating IFR or multi.
So I am not sure what you have but if you need to add the IR we would have
to do the PPL and IR flight test.
If you already have these quals then you are good to keep using them.
This was implemented very quickly we do not know how long it is in effect,
nor does anyone at the FAA that I have talked to. I will keep you informed
of any changes that I come across.

[caaflyr]

The word we have gotten from the FAA is that they are in the process of rewriting their procedures for issuance of converted US Private Pilot Certificates on the basis of a foreign licenses. Until that is completed, we are told the suspension will remain in effect. And no one seems to know at this point what those new procedures might entail, but we all expect there to be some sort of background check required.

Patrick Murphy
Director of Training
Comair Aviation Academy
Sanford, Florida

[Pitts S2B]

Here is the latest from AOPA,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background checks now required for some foreign pilot certificate applicants
July 26 — AOPA has learned that FAA field offices will receive on Monday new procedures requiring all foreign pilots to submit to background checks before the agency will issue a U.S. pilot certificate based on a pilot license issued by another country. This new procedure will remove an emergency suspension of pilot certificate issuance to foreign pilots put into place a little over a week ago because of national security concerns.

The policy will establish new procedures for FAR Part 61.75, issuance of an FAA pilot certificate based on a current foreign pilot certificate. Non-U.S. pilots will be required to submit an application directly to the FAA's office in Oklahoma City and, upon approval, will be directed to the appropriate FAA flight standards district office to receive the U.S. certificate. According to the FAA, the entire process could take up to 60 days.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What this will probably entail is that you get a letter of good character from your local police station and send it with the application. The reason I feel this will be the case is that this letter is what constitutes a background check for the Green card.

It is not too onerous a requirement but keep in mind that previous minor offences may be a problem, public disorder or drunk driving for instance may get you refused.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Pitts S2B]

Here is the latest from AOPA,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background checks now required for some foreign pilot certificate applicants
July 26 — AOPA has learned that FAA field offices will receive on Monday new procedures requiring all foreign pilots to submit to background checks before the agency will issue a U.S. pilot certificate based on a pilot license issued by another country. This new procedure will remove an emergency suspension of pilot certificate issuance to foreign pilots put into place a little over a week ago because of national security concerns.

The policy will establish new procedures for FAR Part 61.75, issuance of an FAA pilot certificate based on a current foreign pilot certificate. Non-U.S. pilots will be required to submit an application directly to the FAA's office in Oklahoma City and, upon approval, will be directed to the appropriate FAA flight standards district office to receive the U.S. certificate. According to the FAA, the entire process could take up to 60 days.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What this will probably entail is that you get a letter of good character from your local police station and send it with the application. The reason I feel this will be the case is that this letter is what constitutes a background check for the Green card.

It is not too onerous a requirement but keep in mind that previous minor offences may be a problem, public disorder or drunk driving for instance may get you refused.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[advancing_blade]

It's a big document. But having scan read it, it seems to say that the FAA Airmans certificates will be granted after a mor extensive security search and validation of the host licence. So unless i'm missing something (couldn't be that :D ) all is not lost.

[Wireless]

The question is wether they will still allow you to progress and add ratings on the back of a validated PPL.

Wireless

[notice]

For security purposes, this seems like a load of.......
No-one who wants to use equipment illegally bothers with technicalities like licences.
In the USA, you don't need a licence to:
-Buy an aircraft
-Hire a boat
-Buy ammunition

[GPS Approach]

I have an FAA PPL issued on the basis of my UK CAA PPL (which has Night and Multi Engine Ratings) I have also completed my FAA IR. Does this mean that I will not be able to complete my FAA CPL without doing the PPL, Multi and IR Flight tests again so that I have a standalone FAA PPL and not a converted one prior to doing the CPL flight tests?

If so means it will cost lots more cash than I have budgeted for. :mad:

[caaflyr]

The current interpretation is that you can not add any more ratings to the converted license nor can you use it to get the US Commercial without first taking the US Knowledge and Practical Tests. We still anxiously await the new procedures from the FAA.
Patrick Murphy
Director of Training
Comair Aviation Academy Sanford, Florida

[Left Wing Down]

Re-post from another thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60273&pagenumber=2


This is the latest info from the FAA website http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp
specifically: http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp#Verify

"Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification

Effective July 23, 2002, persons applying for a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign license under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75, using a pilot certificate issued under 61.75 to apply for a commercial pilot certificate under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.123 (h) or applying for an airline transport pilot certificate issued under the provisions of 14 CFR, Part 61. Section 61.153 (d) (3) must have the validity and currency of the foreign license and medical certificate or endorsement verified by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) that issued those certificates, before making application for an FAA certificate.

You may complete the Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification form (http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf) and FAX or mail it to the Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760. When verification is received from the CAA, you will receive written notification that a copy has been forwarded to the Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) you designated in your request. A listing of FSDO (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/index.cfm) locations and telephone numbers is available from our customer services menu.

The verification is valid for 60 days. You may make application for a 61.75 certificate issued on the basis of your foreign license or an airline transport pilot certificate at the designated FSDO during that 60 day period. If you prefer to write a letter, it must contain all of the information shown on the form.

Mailing Address: FAA
Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760
PO Box 25082
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0082
FAX number: (405) 954-4105"

Seems like it's up to your home country CAA now... :)