Landing on a beach in the UK, legal?

[Sam Rutherford]

My question refers to landplanes (and helis):

My understanding is that above the high tide, you need landowner's permission (whoever that happens to be).

Below low tide (ie always under water) you obviously can't land (landplane).

So, the bit in between. I know this is Crown land (mainly or completely?) but then am unsure. I have people swearing that because it belongs "to the Queen" you can can use it without asking - and I have people saying that you do need her permission because it belongs to her.

So, anyone know?

[BossEyed]

These guys will know chapter & verse (http://lancashirelanding.weebly.com/).

[Tagron]

Is Sollas airfield a guide ? Or is it different being in Scotland ?

The AFE and Pooleys plates for Sollas each contain the same text, to the effect that the aerodrome is a public beach and PPR is not required, though pilots are recommended to contact a local PPL (the operator) for information.

[Capt Kremmen]

No one has jurisdiction on the land between low water and high water Springs. Some agencies will try to intimidate you into believing that they have.

[chevvron]

Is Birkdale Sands still used for aircraft? It was always depicted as an airfield on half mils years ago.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Is Birkdale Sands still used for aircraft? It was always depicted as an airfield on half mils years ago.

I landed on the beach at Southport for the air show a few years ago. Have also landed on the beach at Knott End, near Fleetwood.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm happy to be corrected by anybody legally trained, but my understanding was always that between the low and high tide marks is crown land, and unless specifically enclosed (and with some statute behind that) a public right of way.

I've certainly flown off a few beaches, and never had any difficulty over it. I have, of course, always taken great care to cause neither nuisance nor danger to anybody whilst doing so.

[Maoraigh1]

Solas is an uncontrolled airfield. There's no operator, but a local contact is advisable. A sheet of plywood washed up and became part buried some years ago. No PPR. It's also access to fields, so avoid traffic.

Be very wary of landing on an unchecked beach. Sand conditions change. While tundra tyres will get over soft sand, buried objects can appear, which could burst tyres.
You don't need permission for beach landings, but could be in trouble if you went near someone.

[piperboy84]

Nay Bather

Beach
https://youtu.be/YrWm-8B1ZwI

YrWm-8B1ZwI

Desert
https://youtu.be/8b3PtiHIA-s

Snow
https://youtu.be/RXrCwzQzSmU

Cultivated wheat field
https://youtu.be/yYJn2fVagzQ

Between straw bales
https://youtu.be/z7RgmIgbJXU

Basically anywhere !!

[Cazalet33]

My understanding is that above the high tide, you need landowner's permission (whoever that happens to be).

Below low tide (ie always under water) you obviously can't land (landplane).

So, the bit in between. I know this is Crown land (mainly or completely?)

Yes;yes;yes.

The intertidal zone belongs to the Crown Estate, so they are the landowner to whom a request for permission should be addressed.

There is a tiny bit of technowibble as to exactly which tidal height above chart datum constitutes high and low water as the definition is ever so slightly different between Scotland and England and is very slightly different again in Orkney and Shetland, but the general meaning is clear and there no wiggle room for a landing aircraft.

[BeStagged]

If it meets the runway requirements it should be fine.

[Sam Rutherford]

So, in summary, nobody really knows?

[John R81]

In the UK.........


Foreshore has a legal definition. It is the area between mean highwater (MHW) and mean lowwater (MLW) in much of the UK, but it is defined as the area between MHWsprings /MLWsprings in Scotland. Not sure myself about the Orkneys. It is effectively a moveable freehold, subject to the doctrine of accretion (new deposits building up so foreshore becomes land) and diluvion (erosion of land to become new foreshore).

The Crown is the prima facie owner of foreshore by virtue of prerogative right. (Halsburys Laws Vol 12 (1), 1998 Reissue, para 242). This legal presumption can be overturned if it can shown that it has been the subject of a Crown grant or has been adversely possessed over a period of 60 years or more (burden of proof resting on the claimant). This applies to beaches and also to the inter-tidal stretches of rivers; though there might be less of those upon which you might try to land a light aircraft. Crown land is managed by the Crown Estate, which is a landowner and not a regulatory authority.

The requirement to seek permission of the landowner is based on laws of trespass.

Simples!

[muffin]

Some years ago there was a post on here from Flying Lawyer, who stated that he was unable to find any legal basis for the oft quoted urban legend that permission was required from the landowner to land on any site in the UK.

[Sam Rutherford]

Okay, so Crown Estate permission IS required?

That's contrary to some previous posts, and in line with others...

[John R81]

Some years ago there was a post on here from Flying Lawyer, who stated that he was unable to find any legal basis for the oft quoted urban legend that permission was required from the landowner to land on any site in the UK.



Muffin


There is no rule of the air that I know of, hence if there was such a post I agree, but you are subject to the ordinary laws of trespass.

[Capt Kremmen]

If you can't police it, you can't control it. Who, or what exactly, will be 'feeling your collar'?


Over many, many years, on different occasions, I've either landed or dropped the hook on my boat on the foreshore between low and high water at varying locations without any interference whatsoever.


So have cockle pickers in Morecambe Bay; boy racers on Pendine Sands, and everyone who either makes a living or enjoys a recreational pursuit attached to the land in question.


Do they all apply for individual or blanket exemptions and permissions from feudal laws established after 1066 ?


For me personally, the breaking of such is sufficient inducement.

[Sam Rutherford]

I understand all of that, but it's always best to know in advance if you are breaking the rules or not. What you do with that information (comply or ignore) is then at least an informed decision!

[tmmorris]

If it’s subject to the law of trespass then it is not illegal, but you are liable for any damage caused. That would be subject to civil proceedings if you disputed any bill you were given.

[rolling20]

I would be very careful about landing on a beach. Some forty odd years ago an RAF Bulldog spun in and the crew took to the silk. Another Bulldog watching landed on the beach where the two crew had landed, to offer assistance. As the Bulldog was rolling to a stop , it overturned. Luckily no one was injured and assistance was at hand to help the crew. The aircraft was repaired and subsequently was returned to service. It could have been a lot different if they had been trapped and no one was around to assist.

[squidie]

I would be very careful about landing on a beach. Some forty odd years ago an RAF Bulldog spun in and the crew took to the silk. Another Bulldog watching landed on the beach where the two crew had landed, to offer assistance. As the Bulldog was rolling to a stop , it overturned. Luckily no one was injured and assistance was at hand to help the crew. The aircraft was repaired and subsequently was returned to service. It could have been a lot different if they had been trapped and no one was around to assist.

Yeah beaches look the same from altitude but the surfaces can be a lot different when actually rolling on them. I’ve known of people landing on low-tide beaches at a distance to take photos and then shoot off again as they’re away from people and structures etc.

[Sam Rutherford]

Understood completely - what looks good from the air...

For our plans, we'll have a bunch of people (and vehicles) on the beach - with the 'runway' checked and marked out, so this should be okay.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Also make sure the aeroplane is thoroughly cleaned through with fresh water afterwards. Salt water crevice corrosion is nasty, but easily headed off with a good prompt cleaning.

G

[Sam Rutherford]

Already sorted! Got a mobile car-valeting service on site to jet-wash everything down after each visit to the beach...

[Chuck Glider]

If it’s subject to the law of trespass...
I'm pretty sure the law of trespass is not uniform throughout the UK and that Scotland is different from England in that regard. Not sure about Wales or Ulster.

[Deltasierra010]

I'm pretty sure the law of trespass is not uniform throughout the UK and that Scotland is different from England in that regard. Not sure about Wales or Ulster.

The beach between tidal limits is crown property usually the foreshore above that is owned by somebody, they may or may not tolerate trespassers and if it is a security sensitive site you may get arrested.
Otherwise property is subject to the trespass laws, the owner can deny access and he does not have to be reasonable. The aviators that trespass most are balloonists who land practically every flight without permission, usually a token landing fee is offered ( a bottle or free flight). As many balloons are commercial operations landowners may ask for more than a token payment, in practice a landowner cannot stop you gaining access, but there are some that will impound your aircraft and ruin your day.

[Flyingmac]

There's some footage of me trespassing along with a few dozen others. I'm about 65 seconds in. Luckily I wasn't flying a Bulldog.;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0at8axbpcd4

[Genghis the Engineer]

Already sorted! Got a mobile car-valeting service on site to jet-wash everything down after each visit to the beach...

And an engineer to supervise, then check and rectify lost lubrication and clean water out from where it shouldn't be, I hope. Jet washing aeroplanes isn't a brilliant idea. A normal freshwater hose and a few sponges and brushes is far better for the aircraft.

Sorry to be negative - just hoping you manage to do it all without damaging the aircraft.

G

[Sam Rutherford]

Thank you! Hose, sponges and brushes it is.

Thanks, Sam.