FedEx Buys New Cessna SkyCourier 408

[bafanguy]

FedEx buys new TP freight feeder airplane. Ive read a few articles all saying much the same things. I assume it'll be a 2-pilot crew ? Nothing I've read so far states that.

Interesting comments about "... a collaborative training program we are planning, will create a reliable pipeline of well-qualified pilot applicants for FedEx Express pilot jobs, leveraging the experience they will gain in our feeder system,” Hall said."

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/fedex-signs-on-as-launch-customer-for-cessna-skycourier-408/

Also some speculation Amazon Prime Air might be a customer. Not sure how that works if they don't have their own, independent certificate:

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/is-amazon-coms-prime-air-next-in-line-for-the-new-cessna-skycourier-408/

[bafanguy]

I've not seen anything about whether the airplane will be certified for single pilot operation. Anybody know the answer to that ?

[N707ZS]

Is there anything to compete against? Looks a good replacement for Jetstream 31 sized aircraft.

[DirtyProp]

The M28 Skytruck looks decent, although the Cessna should have better payload: 2,722 kg (6,000 lb) vs 2300 kg (5070 lbs).

[Heathrow Harry]

Really a simple cargo truck - realtively slow but boxy, cheap and very low development costs presumably

[bafanguy]

This is far more interesting than the aircraft.

pbi,

Yes, that's how it struck me too. The statement generates more questions than answers.

Even the airplane purchase announcement on the FedEx website didn't offer any explanation.

Just pure speculation on my part but much of this "pipeline" idea will depend on how early they intend to get the young people on board: fresh CPL/IR/MEL ?

I've seen no statement about whether this proposed airplane will be certified single-pilot or not. I'd think that decision would affect just how "new" pilots could be to enter this "pipeline". IIUC, Part 135 would allow them to use fresh blood but SIC time in a single-pilot airplane wouldn't be loggable ?

They also ordered a bunch of purpose-built ATR72 freighters. Since the ATR72 operation is Part 121, IIUC, F/Os will need an ATP or at least a rATP. To cast the widest net, they'd have to affiliate with colleges whose grads are eligible for a rATP.

All above my pay grade.

This MIGHT be enticing enough to new guys to divert some of the flow from regionals...and into whatever the FedEx deal actually is...if there's a big purple carrot being dangled.

[rick1128]

Will the 408 be single pilot? It will depend on how Cessna and the FAA certifies it.

Why is FedEx looking a this aircraft? Because FedEx is running as many as 4 Caravans on some runs. A great number of these runs are quite short, so ATR's are not a viable aircraft on these runs due to cycle costs. The 408 will be a growth on the Caravan.

Can't wait to see it on floats.

[rick1128]

One had 250 hours of unlogable co-pilot time, that held up his exit.


Why was this pilot's time unlogable? Was it because he was assigned as an SIC in an aircraft that was certified for single pilot operation? If so he would need to answer the following questions:

1. Was it under Part 135?
2. Was the pilot assigned to the flight as an SIC?
3. Was the pilot trained and properly qualified? Required company 135 training and successfully passed a Part 135 SIC checkride in the aircraft?

According to the Office of the Chief Counsel for the FAA if the answer is 'YES" to all three questions, the flight time is logable. The Chief Counsel's office has issued a letter of interpretation on this.

I know that someone out there is going to say "A FAA inspector told me it wasn't logable". Inspectors are required to follow the interpretations of the Chief Counsel's office.

[MarkerInbound]

Which letter is that? The Nichols letter of 2009 states that the SIC must be required either by the TDC or the regulations the aircraft is operated under and specifically gives an example where a part 135 SIC would not be able to log time.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Will the 408 be single pilot? It will depend on how Cessna and the FAA certifies it."

When people like Airbus are starting to plan for one operation of airliners I think you should be able to guess the answer.......... some will probably be operated with two crew as part of any training exercise but two-man operation is something I doubt any buyer would choose if they could get by with one man operation

[rick1128]

Which letter is that? The Nichols letter of 2009 states that the SIC must be required either by the TDC or the regulations the aircraft is operated under and specifically gives an example where a part 135 SIC would not be able to log time.

Marker,

The Nichols letter is not very clear, but the air carrier, may elect to operate the aircraft without the autopilot, in other words with a SIC. The letter does not state that the autopilot has to be inoperative. So if the pilot is assigned to the flight as SIC, they may log the flight time.

One thing to keep in mind when dealing with Letters of Interpretation is that they are written by lawyers, not pilots, so be careful on reading anything between the lines.

[MarkerInbound]

I agree, a lot of what the FAA says is not very clear. But if the company assigns a SIC to a flight for convenience, say to help with the loading of cargo, and was operating under the autopilot in place of a SIC Ops Spec the SIC would not be able to log that flight. Nichols says the operator could decide not to use the autopilot and then the SIC would be required and therefore able to log the time. So I'll stand by my statement that the SIC must be required by TDC or the regs the flight is being operated under in order for them to log the time.

[Ian Corrigible]

I've not seen anything about whether the airplane will be certified for single pilot operation. Anybody know the answer to that ?
Per a Canadian Skies (https://www.skiesmag.com/news/skycourier-fast-track) interview with Textron Aviation’s SVP Engineering,

...both the cargo and the passenger models will be certified for single-pilot operation.

“Some operators want to use it as a crew airplane so the co-pilot can log second-in-command time. We’re working on that,” said Thress.

I/C

[bafanguy]

Ian C,

Thanks for that. It's the first statement I've seen on crew complement.

Still wonder how (or if) this airplane is part of FedEx's statement about "...a "collaborative training program we are planning...".

[galaxy flyer]

I have to believe it’ll have Part 25 certification, is there another Part 25 single pilot airplane?

GF

[bafanguy]

I have to believe it’ll have Part 25 certification, is there another Part 25 single pilot airplane?

gf,

Interesting question. I have no idea.

A brief trip thru Part 25 finds this:

(c) If provision is made for a second pilot, the airplane must be controllable with equal safety from either pilot seat.


"If" ?? Would that not suggest there may be a Part 25 single-pilot airplane ?

I have no idea but someone does.

[Metro man]

I’ve flown single pilot freight in a high performance +5700kg turboprop before. No dramas, just autopilot required or two crew when it was U/S.

Freight is mainly night when the airspace is relatively quiet, and with the advanced avionics available theses days it shouldn’t be too demanding. No NDB letdowns on old fashioned dials to build character.