EASA Flight Instructor Market

[arc698]

Hi All,
I am 32 years, from the US but with a UK passport as well, and about a year ago decided to make a career change from IT into aviation. Now I have my FAA CPL MEL/IR and have been time building in my own taildragger up to about 1100 hours per meeting the FAA's 1500 hour rule, the plan being to get a US regional airline job. However, I've been thinking of an alternative path, since I want to end up in the UK or mainland Europe eventually, and that is getting an EASA flight instructor certificate and instruct in the UK (or elsewhere in Europe) and then try to get an airline job. I was just wondering what the job market is for instructors in the UK and Europe generally, and also whether the chances are good at getting an airline job after instructing for a while?

Thanks!

[rudestuff]

There are a lot more airline jobs than flight instructor jobs. Which do you want to be? It works differently over here - 200 hours can land you a job in a Boeing or Airbus, we don't have the 1500 hour rule.

[arc698]

Thanks @rudestuff! I would like to fly for an airline as the end goal - just thought instructing could be a stepping stone if not required in building hours at least in networking and building professional flight experience. Just wondering what the best pathway is then to a jet job in Europe at this point in my progression? Basically thinking my options are stay over in the US and build hours and then get a regional airline gig, then if I wanted to move over to Europe later, take the ATPL tests and convert. Or, just go over to Europe and take the exams and do the CPL/IR conversion - but then how easy is it to get a job?

[rudestuff]

You're very lucky to be able to work in the US and Europe, my advice would be to start the EASA ATPL exams immediately. It's a great time to start on both sides of the pond, I know loads of people who got big jet jobs straight out of flight school - and once you've got the exams, you're only about 4 weeks away from an EASA licence. Carry on what you're doing - if you don't get a European job straight away, then you're still only 400 hours from the regionals. Once you have 500 hours on a type, you can skip the EASA type rating course as well.

[tailend]

Don't even think about becoming an FI. Once you do your career will be dead. Non US airlines don't like instructors, the notion of hour building is long over. The big airlines are switching to MPL anyway which essentially limits instructing to PPL level training and the interesting stuff can only be done by multi-crew qualified instructors. The FI route to the cockpit is over.
Integrated is the only way now. Best.

[rarelyathome]

Don't even think about becoming an FI. Once you do your career will be dead. Non US airlines don't like instructors, the notion of hour building is long over. The big airlines are switching to MPL anyway which essentially limits instructing to PPL level training and the interesting stuff can only be done by multi-crew qualified instructors. The FI route to the cockpit is over.
Integrated is the only way now. Best.

Doesn't seem to be borne out by the facts. Many colleagues have gone to the airlines in last few months and others are off in the new year. Inegrated is not the only way - unless you believe the advertising from the integrated schools that is.

[rudestuff]

Integrated is the only way - If you want to demonstrate a lack of imagination and common sense. Every airline pilot I know went modular.

[Dusty_B]

Of all the successful single-pilot commercial IFR drivers I have known, only one has been an integrated graduate... none of the others could hack it. And the one that did? He'd been an FI for 3 years.

Of course, I need pilots who can fly. If you only want an airline job however....

[Duchess_Driver]

Once you do your career will be dead. Non US airlines don't like instructors

Utter tosh, my friend.

I am struggling very much to find experienced instructors because (in the last year alone) I have had three of my senior ones 'stolen' by the airlines. To worsen my situation I'm sitting here with a 50+ year old instructor about to head off on his first airline gig.

Even applications for 'newbie' positions are drying up. Famine or feast.

[rudestuff]

Where are you based (Duchess driver)?

[hobbit1983]

Don't even think about becoming an FI. Once you do your career will be dead. Non US airlines don't like instructors, the notion of hour building is long over. The big airlines are switching to MPL anyway which essentially limits instructing to PPL level training and the interesting stuff can only be done by multi-crew qualified instructors. The FI route to the cockpit is over.
Integrated is the only way now. Best.

Bolleaux. What DD said (essentially).

[Cirrussy]

Instructing is an excellent way to improve your skills, well worth it. Then before long you'll be flying light twins, maybe turboprops. Make the most of it, once you're in the airlines you'll be desperate to fly something fun again. The golden handcuffs prevent you from going back to the fun stuff - at least until you win the lottery!

[Happy Wanderer]

Don't even think about becoming an FI. Once you do your career will be dead. Non US airlines don't like instructors, the notion of hour building is long over. The big airlines are switching to MPL anyway which essentially limits instructing to PPL level training and the interesting stuff can only be done by multi-crew qualified instructors. The FI route to the cockpit is over.
Integrated is the only way now. Best.

Complete and utter twaddle := The demand for (good) FIs has never been greater, particularly at the MEIR level where pay, T&Cs, job satisfaction, work-life balance etc., is on a par and in some cases better than for newbie airline FOs. But don't take me word for it!

HW

[rudestuff]

The demand for (good) FIs has never been greater, particularly at the MEIR level

How about for a MEP CRI/IRI (no FI)?

[Warlock1]

Don't even think about becoming an FI. Once you do your career will be dead.

Thats crap!! I converted my FI rating in to EASA and it was the best decision. It is an amazing opportunity to learn about flying in Europe and experience different countries attitudes towards flying. Despite my type rating in Boeing, I am not thinking about the airline for now and free to go wherever the job takes me.
.... and the demand for FI s are always there.

[JUST-local]

Duchess Driver
Can you tell me which airlines are hiring instructors... a PM is fine :)

[RomanK]

Can someone say few general words about full-time FI(A) salary in eastern countries like Poland/Lithuania/Czech Republic: is it usually enough for a family with 1 child and non-working spouse to live more or less correctly?
Additionally: is it a big drawback do not speak country-language immediately from beginning but learn it later?

[ralphos]

is it usually enough for a family with 1 child and non-working spouse to live more or less correctly?

Short answer: NO.
Can anyone post the exact current figures? I'm not really up to date, it's been a while since I talked to a Polish FI.


Additionally: is it a big drawback do not speak country-language immediately from beginning but learn it later?

In big cities (capitals of those countries) it shouldn't be a serious problem, but be aware that those languages are VERY difficult to learn - pronunciation is horrible, grammar overcomplicated and there is a long list of exceptions to every rule. Learning any of those languages may be a much bigger challenge than doing ATPL and FI :ugh:

The good thing about those countries (especially Poland and Czech Republic) are the people. You may easily find real sincere friends there.

[portsharbourflyer]

Arc698,

I would stay in the US, if you hit the 1500 hour mark your terms and conditions will be far better than you will get in Europe. I have seen US Airlines offering joining fees to new FOs since the 1500 hour rule came in. Once you have gained 500 hours on something over 10 tonnes and multi crew then is the time to look at Europe.

There is an element of truth that FIs are falling out of favour with the Airlines, any Airline job that pays a decent salary (one that you can survive on) tends to either require 500 hours on something over 10 tonnes or will only recruit low hour cadets from the big three.

A lot of FIs have still ended up paying for a type rating to get a job and the jobs where you don't pay for a rating typically have a low starting salary with a two to three year bond. Getting bonded for 18k over three years and moving North or South by a three hundred miles and only earing 20 to 25 k a year is not viable for many of those with commitments. Your chances of getting an Airline Job when you hit 1500 hours is significantly better in the US than it is in Europe.

[Gee5]

Great to see so many people have faith in the instructor role. That is exactly the route I want to go down FI/CRI and not interested in the airlines. Currently hour building post PPL and learning a few extra thing like complex type and tail wheel along the way. I really don't need to do the ATPL writtens, just the CPL exams.

Does any ATO in the UK provide the CPL theory course, preferably distance learning? (There are posts on pprune about this but all quite historic so looking for some up to date info) Bristol only do ATPL and CATS only CPL(H) I think.

All the ones I can find are ATPL courses and I really don’t need to know the number of fire extinguishers required for a 737! I just want to teach both up in the air and on the ground.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[rarelyathome]

Great to see so many people have faith in the instructor role. That is exactly the route I want to go down FI/CRI and not interested in the airlines. Currently hour building post PPL and learning a few extra thing like complex type and tail wheel along the way. I really don't need to do the ATPL writtens, just the CPL exams.

Does any ATO in the UK provide the CPL theory course, preferably distance learning? (There are posts on pprune about this but all quite historic so looking for some up to date info) Bristol only do ATPL and CATS only CPL(H) I think.

All the ones I can find are ATPL courses and I really don’t need to know the number of fire extinguishers required for a 737! I just want to teach both up in the air and on the ground.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Even doing the CPL theory you will need to know the number of fire extinguishers on a 737 and the number of fire axes! If you are relatively young, do the ATPL - it’s not that much more effort and will give you far more options if the realities of instructing make you think again in a few years. It’s also handier to have the ATPL theory if you want to get your IR.

[rudestuff]

The CPL isn't actually any easier than the ATPL - because the is so much more support for ATPL training, and virtually none for CPL.

[Gee5]

Rude stuff & rarelyathome -

Thanks for the advice and info. Am gonna sign up to the Bristol course run through Bartolini.

[rarelyathome]

Rude stuff & rarelyathome -

Thanks for the advice and info. Am gonna sign up to the Bristol course run through Bartolini.

Best of luck. It can be a grind but try to enjoy the experience 😳