Virgin drops Multi engine requirement for pilot candidates

[pilotchute]

I noticed on the Virgin careers page this week that most of the Pilot positions have dropped the requirement for multi engine time. I think Jet FO requires multi or turbine. This is a big change and to top it off the total time for all positions other than Capt has dropped to 500 hours.

Anyone know why the sudden change? Short of applicants who meet the old mins or just getting with the times?

[Chocks Away]

Negative. Plenty meet or exceed the old minimums.
Plus many who exceed the minimums won't return to Australia and it's very high cost of living etc etc under current EBA / T's & C's... why would you when you can be based out of Aust on twice the income (or more); a third the tax; less flight hours and better Ancillary benefits!
Also, a rediculously out of touch, arrogant & procrastinating HR, that doesn't realise the experience of the many candidates they've interviewed already!
Those days of being aloof & picky about who you chose are dead-set gorrrrrrrnnnnn, especially for such a carrier as VA.
Other airlines around the globe made moves to avoid such shortfall in labour supply years ago because they saw the writing on the wall!
Well it's a train wreck coming fast & hard, let me tell you & 457 Visa's 'ain't the answer (coz I know a few fake logbook Capts in there already!!!).
Strap in for the ride and grab some popcorn because this further sideshow, that is Australian Aviation (mis)management is going to get more interesting.

[Rated De]

Well it's a train wreck coming fast & hard

Sadly Australian pilot subscribe en masse to the myth of 'Australian exceptionalism'

If only the pilots collectively realised supply is limited. IR did such a good job of driving down terms and conditions there are literally not enough qualified pilots.

It isn't just aviation, every industry in the Western world is struggling, from health care to aged care. The retiring demographic isn't replaced with enough workers, it is elementary but somehow pilots will continue trip over themselves thinking they are two economic quarters from the scrap heap!

Is America's airline industry headed for a major pilot shortage? | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/10/22/is-americas-airline-industry-headed-for-major-pilot-shortage.html)

Air Force pilot shortage grows despite incentives to stay (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local-military/air-force-facing-growing-crisis-pilot-shortage/7HehaEvvUUzXKg8JUndBDP/)

Ever wonder why QF are bringing JC aircraft in house again, when all the 'efficiency' was to be had in NZ? Or an implied threat of another subsidiary with jets? Their IR model was predicated on unlimited supply.

[Chocks Away]

Amen, Rated'
I was still editing my post but you sum it up well, in that it's not the only industry effected and the management model has to change.

[Brakerider]

Very strange considering I know a few good candidates with 2000+ hours but marginally less than 500 multi told to go away and come back.

[Power]

With a seniority list that long why would anyone bother ?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

every industry in the Western world is struggling, from health care to aged care. The retiring demographic isn't replaced with enough workers
That's because the bar to entry is being continually raised. Take childcare. The retiree is a kindly mum looking after kids because she enjoyed it. The replacement has to have a degree in early learning and is looking for a highly paid career to recoup their education costs. Kids are coming out over educated, and don't want to start at the bottom, or the qualification requirements for those bottom jobs are over the top for what they are.

[Icarus2001]

That's because the bar to entry is being continually raised.

Except in aviation apparently.

Used to be EK would not look at an applicant unless they had jet time above 50 tonnes. Now they are happy if you have a pulse and can tell the difference between a boat and an aeroplane.

Virgin dropped their requirements. Other adverts I see seem to have low requirements compared to days gone by.

[no_one]

Take childcare. The retiree is a kindly mum looking after kids because she enjoyed it. The replacement has to have a degree in early learning and is looking for a highly paid career to recoup their education costs.

Too true and this is happening across every industry in Australia. The increased levels of qualifications make it much harder to get employment and for people to change careers. As an example, to become a marriage celebrant you need a Certificate IV in Celebrancy.

One of the biggest growth sectors in Australia is in training. This sector of the industry is able to act as a gateway to the jobs that job seekers demand. It is in this industry's interest that formal qualifications are required and they lobby the government for such regulation often to the detriment of society overall

I fear for what the impact on Aviation will be. Flight Instructors in certain roles already need a certificate IV in teaching and assessment.

[YPJT]

One of the biggest growth sectors in Australia is in training. This sector of the industry is able to act as a gateway to the jobs that job seekers demand. It is in this industry's interest that formal qualifications are required and they lobby the government for such regulation often to the detriment of society overall
I believe the term is “self licking ice cream”

[Flyboy1987]

Maybe VA will attract the guys who qlink have had on hold for 12+ months with no start in sight.

[Rated De]

Perhaps the pool of applicants is not replenished sufficiently due waning supply?

Maybe VA will attract the guys who qlink have had on hold for 12+ months with no start in sight.

It could be in a time soon enough pilots are considered a strategic asset: The airlines who dispense with their adversarial IR practices the fastest will likely secure supply...

[porch monkey]

Well, that leaves VA out.

[Jeffory]

Excuse my potential ignorance on the matter, but considering the impending "shortage", there still seems to be hoards and hoards of low hour pilots lining up and willing to drop $20-25k on MECIR and MCC. Is this extra training likely to become provided by the airlines in the years to come?

[Derfred]

As an example, to become a marriage celebrant you need a Certificate IV in Celebrancy.

And so you should.

Flight Instructors in certain roles already need a certificate IV in teaching and assessment.

And so they should. How does a raw CPL make you a good instructor?

[boresite]

And so you should.



And so they should. How does a raw CPL make you a good instructor?

Um, by completing a qualified flying instructor's rating?

[Stretch06]

And so you should.



And so they should. How does a raw CPL make you a good instructor?


It may not, but I can guarantee that a Cert IV in Training and Assessment does nothing to improve your ability to be a good instructor.

[josephfeatherweight]

It may not, but I can guarantee that a Cert IV in Training and Assessment does nothing to improve your ability to be a good instructor.
I wholeheartedly agree - it will relieve you of a significant chunk of your cash, however.
These bullsh!t courses are an expensive hoop jumping exercise that provide extremely limited value.
I believe the term is “self licking ice cream”
Absolutely!

[Rated De]

but considering the impending "shortage", there still seems to be hoards and hoards of low hour pilots lining up and willing to drop $20-25k on MECIR and MCCAir Force has a pilot shortage due to lack of training resources - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-has-a-pilot-shortage-due-to-lack-of-training-resources-2017-10)

America Pilot Shortage Effect on Regional Flights, Ticket Prices | Fortune (http://fortune.com/2017/10/16/pilot-shortage-airports-tickets-flights/)

Is America's airline industry headed for a major pilot shortage? | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/10/22/is-americas-airline-industry-headed-for-major-pilot-shortage.html)

There is a whole thread on pilot shortage. It is in Australia as it is elsewhere; structural in nature, not a result of the business cycle and the magnitude of the retirement rate will continue to accelerate.

Whilst not detracting from the comments, VAH may well recognise the early stages of a shortage of suitable applicants. Very hard for an airline to maintain 'cost leadership' where that labour unit cost leadership means they can't effectively generate revenue from their supposed network..

[megan]

Other adverts I see seem to have low requirements compared to days gone bySeems various operators are having trouble getting suitable applicants. One operator of single pilot twin turboprops is in dire need of a number of pilots to fill seats, has advertised, got only one reply, from an unsuitable applicant. Looking overseas.

[patty50]

Seems various operators are having trouble getting suitable applicants. One operator of single pilot twin turboprops is in dire need of a number of pilots to fill seats, has advertised, got only one reply, from an unsuitable applicant. Looking overseas.


The requirements of some GA jobs are just ridiculous. But of course the answer isn't to train someone, pay for their type rating or negotiate with insurers on lower minimums. It's always look overseas.

Just looking at AFAP and you compare the jobs, some of these people are absolutely dreaming if they expect someone to scroll past a full time jet job with lower minimums than the single engine part time job in the middle of nowhere.

[Rated De]

Christmas Crisis: 15,000 American Air Flights Without Pilots Over Holidays Due To "Glitch" | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-29/christmas-crisis-15000-american-air-flights-without-pilots-over-holidays-due-glitch)

Maybe Australian exceptionalism will facilitate a continued race to the bottom. As all Australians know Straya is different!

[eukeybound]

The requirements of some GA jobs are just ridiculous. But of course the answer isn't to train someone, pay for their type rating or negotiate with insurers on lower minimums. It's always look overseas.

Just looking at AFAP and you compare the jobs, some of these people are absolutely dreaming if they expect someone to scroll past a full time jet job with lower minimums than the single engine part time job in the middle of nowhere.

You'll actually find that the main reasons for the higher minimums are non-negotiable contract requirements for the people chartering the aircraft. Many operators are more than willing to put someone on a new type with far less hours than required by contracts, but when they can't actually service the contracts, it's pointless.

[eukeybound]

Um, by completing a qualified flying instructor's rating?

Neither a FIR or Cert IV in T&A makes you a good instructor. The only good instructors I ever had were the ones who wanted to instruct, for the pleasure of training and teaching new pilots the right skills.

The instructors who got their FIR to build hours from a bare CPL and avoid having to do some real work in NT/WA GA were unfortunately far too easy to pick and nowhere near as easy to avoid. They were also predominately of a much lower standard, both as instructors and pilots.

[Derfred]

Neither a FIR or Cert IV in T&A makes you a good instructor. The only good instructors I ever had were the ones who wanted to instruct, for the pleasure of training and teaching new pilots the right skills.

The instructors who got their FIR to build hours from a bare CPL and avoid having to do some real work in NT/WA GA were unfortunately far too easy to pick and nowhere near as easy to avoid. They were also predominately of a much lower standard, both as instructors and pilots.

Maybe having to do a Cert IV will at least punch into their heads that they need to concentrate on training not just hours in the book.

[megan]

patty, in the instance cited, the employers training is beyond reproach, and as an outsider I'm staggered at the commitment in that area, equal to any airline.